article from atheist on Prince and the JW's from about.com

 

 

 

 

 

 

Prince has had an interesting career - but many may be unaware of the fact that he has recently converted to the Jehovah's Witnesses. Even fewer are probably aware of the fact that Prince's religious beliefs have begun to filter into his music, including his older music. 
Rick Ross writes:

Four years ago the funkster converted reportedly to satisfy his mother’s dying wish, but since then Prince has gone so far as to add religious lyrics to his theme song “Purple Rain.” The new line in the song goes, “Say you can’t make up your mind? I think you better close it and open up the Bible.” Close your mind? Isn’t that like being “brainwashed”?

Prince may have even recast his old battles with record companies into something religious. “I can tell you who made the System,” he told Newsweek cryptically (April 12, 2004). The “System,” according to Prince apparently includes the music recording business that he says once “enslaved” him. But the word “System” has a darker connotation than slavery amongst Jehovah’s Witnesses. It encompasses everything “worldly” outside of the organization, which includes all world governments, businesses and any other religious organizations. And "who made the System” and essentially controls it today? According to the Witnesses its creator and guiding light is Satan.

Evidently, Prince proselytizes door- to-door just like other Witnesses - but unlike other Witnesses, he participates in the "System" in ways that would normally be shunned. When he does proselytize, according to Ross, he goes in a limo with four bodyguards and tailor-made suits. Pity that all Witnesses aren't given the same latitude - but they can't contribute millions to the cause like Prince can. You don't suppose that has anything to do with it, do you?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Comments

September 5, 2006 at 5:10 pm

(1) Melanie says:

Whoa! so prince is acting a little more responsibly these days…shame on those jehova’s witnesses for doing that to him, and as far as the limo…ever think that maybe he has enough money to get his own limo…and i used to think your website was a reliable source of information

September 5, 2006 at 5:16 pm

(2) atheism says:

Whoa! so prince is acting a little more responsibly these days…

What is “responsible” about what he’s doing?

and as far as the limo…ever think that maybe he has enough money to get his own limo…

Going out like that when others can’t is contrary to the principles of the group.

and i used to think your website was a reliable source of information

What is “unreliable” about the information provided here? I don’t think you chose the word you really mean. You don’t disagree with the facts of the case, which if wrong would make me unreliable as a source of information. You disagree with my criticism of Prince, which simply means that I have an opinion you dislike.
I do, however, explain what my opinion is and why I hold it. You haven’t done that here.

October 24, 2006 at 4:43 am

(3) HOTSTF says:

Leave him alone.He is at peace.Tom Cruise,John Travolta and all the others many give millions to their churches,but as a Jehovah’s Witness we try to follow Jesus Christ’s example of witnessing to everyone.We are paid only with the reward of serving God.We do not give money to the society.We are not made to tithe.We give what we can.Remember the widows’s mite.Shame on you for taking Prince’s comfort and joy and making a mockery of it.

October 24, 2006 at 6:12 am

(4) Austin Cline says:

Is there something about the cited behavior that should be beyond criticism and challenge?

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November 14, 2006 at 12:28 pm

(5) ben r says:

Let’s not forget that Prince is trying to convert people here. Didn’t it ever occur to any of y’all that maybe the limo would make him more effective? I mean, if Prince drove up to my front porch in a limo and tried to convert me, I would be much more likely to fall for it than I would be with your average “witness.” Prince > guy in sweater-vest.

December 20, 2006 at 2:42 pm

(6) spankee the yankee says:

There are folks that believe the concept of a god or religion, and folks that do not.
But, to dedicate an entire website and a large abundance of mental and physical resources on critizing folks that do is tad obsessive and antagonistic in nature.
Religiophobe? Probably not. But religionist, atheists, and agnostics alike should all possess a level of tolerance. Which all has been guilty of neglecting.
Point to remember: Religion is not the only thing that is often subjected to the evils of “extremism”. All of our convictions are vulnerable as well.

December 21, 2006 at 4:40 pm

(7) Austin Cline says:

But, to dedicate an entire website and a large abundance of mental and physical resources on critizing folks that do is tad obsessive and antagonistic in nature.

Do you post similar criticisms on sites that promote belief in god and religion and are critical of those who don’t believe in any and those who believe in the “wrong” ones? If not, then you appear to have a double standard: it’s OK to promote such things, but not OK to resist and criticize them. Why?

But religionist, atheists, and agnostics alike should all possess a level of tolerance.

Telling someone that an idea, claim, or opinion is wrong is not “intolerance.”

Religion is not the only thing that is often subjected to the evils of “extremism”. All of our convictions are vulnerable as well.

True, but religion has characteristics that make it especially vulnerable. Moreover, the fact that extremism exists in other contexts is no reason not to be critical of religion.

January 1, 2007 at 1:40 pm

(8) nathaniel says:

This articly does seem to be written with prejudice. I’m not really sure what “latitude” he has been given? I think that needs a further explanation beyond he has a singing career and has a limo???

January 16, 2007 at 11:40 pm

(9) anne says:

gosip and rumors…did you see this limo? personally I don’t believe it…and everyone is treated the same, no one knows what others are giving…it is done in cash and without fanfare for the most part, there are other famous people in this organization also,but then Jesus always said his followers would be persecuted and this is what you are doing

February 2, 2007 at 12:24 pm

(10) Paul says:

Your article is very misinformative, and obvioulsy poorly researched. No witness goes door to door in a limousine with 4 bodyguards (how in the world did you came up with this?). Second, jw’s don’t “convert” people. Third: no one becomes a witness because of his mother dying wishes to.
Before daring to publish something, use at least half of your brain, there is too much ignorance in this world, and we don’t need more of it.

February 5, 2007 at 7:10 am

(11) joe says:

speaking as someone outside this organisation, your article was complete bollocks. do some research before you start shooting your opinion as fact. converted for his dying mum !? are you joking, you made that up right ? either that or your buddy down at the pub told you. prince is a musical genius and what he does outside that world is up to him.

February 5, 2007 at 7:41 am

(12) Austin Cline says:

do some research before you start shooting your opinion as fact.

I did some research and am quoting a source. If you disagree with the source, please provide some evidence that the source is incorrect. Otherwise, aren’t you shooting off an opinion as fact?

are you joking, you made that up right ?

No, I’m quoting it. Do you have evidence that Rick Ross is incorrect?

prince is a musical genius and what he does outside that world is up to him.

Does this have anything to do with what I wrote? No — except that it sounds like an attempt to excuse the things I describe. That would be strange, though, since you just tried to insist that what I describe is all incorrect. So why even include this?

August 25, 2011 at 8:38 am

(13) rit says:

i have evidence rick ross is incorrecct. i am one of jehovahs witnesses myself. i am 12yrs. old got baptized dec.4 2010 1st of all we do not consider buisnesses worldly, we dont salute the flag because, while we appreciate the fact we live in this country, we dont give our allegiance 2 a flag… we give it to jehovah god. we absolutely do not convert people. they make that descision themselves. we dont’brainwash’ people! that is the most craziest absurd thing i have ever heard in my 12years. and satan is the ruler of this system. why else do we see violence, pestilence, earthquakes, sickness… why would a loving god do that 2 us? plus satan was cast down to earth with his demons! think about it.. the fact r in the bible. if u want 2 learn more about us go to http://www.watchtower.org

February 5, 2007 at 7:46 am

(14) Austin Cline says:

No witness goes door to door in a limousine with 4 bodyguards (how in the world did you came up with this?).

If you read the links provided, you’ll know exactly where it came from:

On the quiet suburban streets of Minneapolis, he cuts a remarkable figure. Dressed in a tailor-made suit and trademark stack heels, he steps lightly out of his purring limo and, surrounded by four bodyguards, approaches the modest picket-fenced homes.
And to each astonished resident opening their doors to the peculiar group, multi-millionaire superstar Prince quietly asks: “Would you like to talk about Jesus?”

If you dispute the article, please explain why.

Second, jw’s don’t “convert” people.

What do you call door-to-door proselytization if not an effort to convert?

Third: no one becomes a witness because of his mother dying wishes to.

Again, from the article:

Credit for this remarkable transformation, the Daily Mirror can reveal, is down to his mother’s dying wishes, new wife Manuela Testolini, who, at 27, is 18 years his junior, and his baptism as a Jehovah’s Witness. …
The death of Prince’s mother, jazz singer Mattie Shaw, was a turning point for the star, who has sold more than 100million albums. Her dying wishes were for him to become a Jehovah’s Witness, as she had been for most of her life, and to see him married. He tied the knot with Mani weeks before his mother passed away and six months after the death of his father, pianist and bandleader John L Nelson.

No one becomes a JW because of a mother’s dying wish? That’s a pretty strong statement and will be difficult for you to support.

February 5, 2007 at 9:44 am

(15) Don says:

I like the idea that the world is NOT controlled by Satan. When the phrase “brainwash” is a negative….so we should all have dirty minds instead, right? But I would offer that in a world where most maps use a star in a cicle – a form of a pentagram – a satanic symbol- to represent govenrmental authority, then under whose authority does this suggest they are under? Satan himself told Christ that he would give him “all the kingdoms” of the world if he would do an act of woship before him. It appears to be “in the stars” as well besides already being in the Bible.

February 5, 2007 at 11:07 am

(16) paul says:

…Interesting…
The fact that someone else says it doesn’t make it true. I can say that UFO’s are real, and have a newspaper report to prove it. Any discerining person will realize how little value my info has.
That value has your article. Made up, and biased to distort what JW’s do.
No witnesses don’t convert people. The fact that they will knowck on doors doesn’t make them proselitists. People have the right to even not open their doors!
By the way, forcing people into thinking that agnsoticism is a must with the use of half truths and bad info, is not a form of proselitism?
It’s funny how atheists (and agnosticists) replace the figure of God with “nature” or “evolution”, thus giving them character and making them so smart that they over time created the actual forms of life on earth.
Also, proving that no jehova’s witness become that for the dying wish of his/her mother is really easy. Millions of them around the globe are living proof of that, and each on knows that allegation is not true.
Again, research is very important before daring to post any king of information. Bad research leads to misinformation and the further spread of ignorance.

February 5, 2007 at 11:30 am

(17) Austin Cline says:

The fact that someone else says it doesn’t make it true.

I agree. Do you have any evidence that this particular newspaper article is false?

No witnesses don’t convert people.

Once again: what is the purpose of door-to-door proselytization if not to convert people? The fact that people have a choice not to open the door does not indicate that the purpose is not to convert. Door-to-door encyclopedia salesmen have the purpose of selling encyclopedias, even though people have the right not to open their doors in such cases as well.

By the way, forcing people into thinking that agnsoticism is a must with the use of half truths and bad info, is not a form of proselitism?

1. I don’t “force” people into thinking anything with anything I write.
2. I have never said or suggested that agnosticism is a “must.”
3. You have yet to establish any half-truths or bad info here; you merely repeat your disagreement with it.

It’s funny how atheists (and agnosticists) replace the figure of God with “nature” or “evolution”, thus giving them character and making them so smart that they over time created the actual forms of life on earth.

It might be funny, if it were true. Please support this assertion of yours.

Also, proving that no jehova’s witness become that for the dying wish of his/her mother is really easy. Millions of them around the globe are living proof of that, and each on knows that allegation is not true.

Merely repeating the assertion that it’s not true is not proof that it’s not true.

Again, research is very important before daring to post any king of information. Bad research leads to misinformation and the further spread of ignorance.

I agree. Please provide evidence that the newspaper article is false before continuing to repeat that it is false.

February 6, 2007 at 1:49 pm

(18) Anne Johnson says:

Funny…I remember reading nearly exactly the same description of Michael Jackson’s “door-to-door” work back in the 1980′s. Does anyone else remember that? Perhaps it’s my faulty memory…however,the idea of Prince or anyone else in costume, in a limo, with four bodyguards, going to people’s doors to “talk about Jesus” is ludicrous. Most Jehovah’s Witnesses I’ve seen going from door-to-door walk between houses and try to be as inconspicuous as possible. Like Judge Judy says, if it doesn’t make sense, it’s not true!

February 6, 2007 at 10:49 pm

(19) joe says:

Right then, so you have decided to defend the rubbish you coughed up. Fair enough too, with your name up there at the top for everyone to see. And lets be honest, criticism is hard to take. I can imagine it now, it was Friday afternoon and you were looking forward to the weekend, but you had that article you owed your editor. Sadly, instead of putting together an original, well thought out piece that would do some justice to agnosticism/atheism, you decided to step outside your scope of works and do a cut and paste hit job on someone else’s beliefs.
I did you a favour by suggesting your source was a buddy down at the pup. That’s what normal shoddy journalists do. Heck, I use it all the time when I need a story for my girl on why I’m home late. But what did you do? You went to Cultnews.com. And it is not too bad if you skip the conspiracy theories on doomsday brainwashing. Be honest, the guy who set up Cultnews.com is your buddy right? He updates it from his mum’s basement with only his star trek figurines to keep him company. Credit to Cultnews.com, they also sited someone…the London Mirror. I didn’t pick mine up today but tell me, who made the cover of that stellar periodical today, Britney or Paris?
So basically you sited someone, who sited someone, who sited no one, making you the bigger fool. Incredibly, you tried to serve it up to us! Well, it looks like the readers of About.com ask more from their writers than its editor. Do you have one of those? A proof reader? A fact checker?
Finally, the reason I stumbled across your bit of bolloks in the first place was because it is sited on Wikipedia as a source. Can you believe that? I am hesitant to ask, but I will anyway…did you do that? Did you get on Wiki and decide to site yourself as an expert on something? Shame on you…and on us I suppose for ending up here.

February 7, 2007 at 6:38 am

(20) Austin Cline says:

Right then, so you have decided to defend the rubbish you coughed up.

I guess you could say that insisting you support your claims that the newspaper article is false might qualify as “defending” the article. I notice that you don’t do so, though. Instead of offering an original, well thought out critique of the newspaper article, you just offer one personal attack after another, whether against me or someone else.
You are, of course, free to disagree when a newspaper publishes something unflattering about one of your favorite singers, but you aren’t free to be abusive and insulting towards those who reference such publications unless you can point to more than your own personal sense of outrage. When you do have substantive arguments for your claim that the newspaper article is false, you’re welcome to come back and post your arguments.

February 8, 2007 at 3:50 pm

(21) Yesenia says:

Since ALL opinions are welcome: Prince is doing a great job! It’s nice to see that some people are STILL trying to carry out the preaching work that Jesus Christ asked us to do. It’s even nicer to know that someone famous would set aside a busy life to put Jehovah God first. After all, he is our Creator, and we should acknowledge that and be thankful.

February 9, 2007 at 8:22 pm

(22) Phil says:

I applaud Prince’s efforts to further the work he is involved in. I am not a fan of his music but I’ve researched the JW organization. I believe they are on the right track. They offer free in home bible study. They do not get paid for their work. They support themselves and their ministry with regular jobs. They are trying their best to continue a work that Jesus started. Should you listen to them? Couldn’t hurt. Hey, the entire ancient world of mankind perished for not listening to old Noah and his doomsday prophecy. Only he and his family survived and the animals. What if the JW’s are correct when they talk about a world wide destruction to be followed by a paradise on Earth. What’s it hurt to listen? You might be saving your own life.

February 10, 2007 at 7:24 am

(23) Austin Cline says:

I am not a fan of his music but I’ve researched the JW organization. I believe they are on the right track.

Feel free to demonstrate how.

Hey, the entire ancient world of mankind perished for not listening to old Noah and his doomsday prophecy.

Please provide evidence supporting this claim.

What if the JW’s are correct when they talk about a world wide destruction to be followed by a paradise on Earth.

What if the followers of the ancient Greek gods are right?

February 10, 2007 at 10:22 am

(24) Phil says:

As the song goes ‘You’ve got to believe in something or you’ll fall for anything’ First you have to believe that the Bible is in fact the word of God. With that basis, the rest is in black and white. Scriptures such as Matthew 24:14 describe the actual door to door work being done and why it is being done. 2nd Peter 2:5 aptly describes the flood. As for the ancient Greeks, they were story tellers at best. They did however have a correct basis for their mythological stories. From Genesis 6:4 we find that there were at one time god-like giants on the earth. These were the offspring of demon angels and man formed when the demons took human bodies and married the woman of earth. Their offspring were evil giants called Nephilim. Genesis calls them ‘mighty ones’, and ‘men of fame.’ Are these not the basis for Greek mythology. If so, then the ancient Greeks were right but the real truth came from Gods word before the Greeks existed. These very Giants were the reason God brought the flood of Noahs day as you will find from reading on in Genesis chapter 6.

February 10, 2007 at 11:23 am

(25) Austin Cline says:

As the song goes ‘You’ve got to believe in something or you’ll fall for anything’

Being in a song doesn’t make it true. Can you offer any support for this claim being true?

First you have to believe that the Bible is in fact the word of God.

Can you offer any support for this claim being true?

With that basis, the rest is in black and white.

No, because it doesn’t say how it should be interpreted, whether it’s the direct “word of God” or merely “inspired” by God, whether there are any errors, whether everything in it necessarily applies today or if some things only applied at the time, etc.
If you can support any particular positions on these issues, feel free to try — but in the forum, as that would be off topic here.

February 10, 2007 at 12:13 pm

(26) Phil says:

You continually ask for proof that something is true. Can we proove that we even exist. Simply because we write words and comments here does not proove that we are in fact real people. Or does it? We can go through life doubting that anything is real or true but we might as well doubt that the air we breathe is real, afterall, can you see air? No. But when the equally invisible wind blows houses away, do we believe that wind and air exist? If we don’t, there is something really wrong with our perception. It’s the old ‘forest for the trees’ argument all over again. By the way, What is the forum in which to argue this topic since I am off topic here?

February 10, 2007 at 1:39 pm

(27) Austin Cline says:

You continually ask for proof that something is true.

I ask you to support your claims. Surely you don’t expect people to believe something merely because you say it’s true, right? :If you cannot support a claim, don’t make it.

By the way, What is the forum in which to argue this topic since I am off topic here?

The forum is here; you can read as a guest, but must register to post.

February 10, 2007 at 2:02 pm

(28) Phil says:

I make no claims of my own but only those contained in the Scriptures. Do we need proof that these are true?
If so we may be questioning the existence of God himself. Oh wait a minute, I think I get it now. Never mind.

February 10, 2007 at 2:30 pm

(29) Austin Cline says:

I make no claims of my own but only those contained in the Scriptures.

You make claims about their origin and nature. You must support such claims.

Do we need proof that these are true?

In the manner that you describe, sure, that would be nice.

If so we may be questioning the existence of God himself.

On an atheist site…?

Oh wait a minute, I think I get it now. Never mind.

It would be rude to swoop in, make unsubstantiated claims, then leave without either supporting or withdrawing them.

February 10, 2007 at 5:59 pm

(30) Phil says:

OK Austin, enough of this. I’ll check you out on another topic but no doubt to no avail. I am curious about your reasons for atheism though. There are atheists who have seen the light so to speak and I wonder if your concerns were answered, if you too would see it differently. Time will tell. I’ll look at some other topics since this one no longer has anything to do with Prince anyway.

February 10, 2007 at 7:04 pm

(31) Austin Cline says:

OK Austin, enough of this.

You’re going to stop making claims that you cannot support? I can accept that, but you should withdraw the claims you have already made and don’t intend to support.

I am curious about your reasons for atheism though.

I don’t believe in any gods because there is no good reason to bother.

February 10, 2007 at 9:12 pm

(32) Phil says:

All claims are supported by God’s word but it would require an in depth study of it to appreciate it not to mention an open mind. There’s not ample time or room here to do so.
I don’t blame you for not believing in God considering the present circumstances. I wouldn’t either. The world sucks and any God who would stand by and let it get progressivly worse is not the god for me. We’ll talk on another forum

February 10, 2007 at 9:44 pm

(33) Austin Cline says:

All claims are supported by God’s word

And that’s another unsupported assertion on your part.

but it would require an in depth study of it to appreciate it not to mention an open mind.

And another.

I don’t blame you for not believing in God considering the present circumstances. I wouldn’t either. The world sucks and any God who would stand by and let it get progressivly worse is not the god for me.

There would be no good reason to believe in any gods even if the world were wonderful.

We’ll talk on another forum

Not if you don’t support your assertions there, either.

February 12, 2007 at 10:27 am

(34) phil says:

The sky is blue but I have no support for my assertion therefore it must not be true. It never changes with you. Look in the mirror if you want to see proof of God. You were created in his image whether you believe it or not. We won’t talk anymore on any forum because it is like talking to a brick. So Long Austin

February 12, 2007 at 11:03 am

(35) Austin Cline says:

The sky is blue but I have no support for my assertion therefore it must not be true.

No, this is an assertion you can support if you try. If you don’t think you can support your other assertions, you should withdraw them. Making assertions you cannot support is unethical.

February 18, 2007 at 10:23 pm

(36) Keff Roberts says:

If you were better informed about the Jehovah’s Witness religion, some things that you may have originally thought may never have made it onto this page. Jehovah’s Witnesses are not like the Amish or any other religious group that shuns a lifestyle like Prince’s. As long as what he does is within the laws of their God, then he is doing what he is supposed to do. Because he still performs for millions of people who love him, doesn’t make him a bad person. And the “System” you are referring to is quoted in their bible in the same place “World” would be in others. All it means is a figuratively temporary world that will soon pass away. Just like in the days of Noah, it is said that that world passed away. Most know, in bible context, that “world” meant the wicked mankind. I would have thought that a journalist like yourself would have done the necessary research before writing an article about a subject that you obviously know nothing about.

February 20, 2007 at 6:50 pm

(37) A. Nonyomous says:

Faith as described in the Holy Scriptures is defined as at Hebrews 11:1:
Quoted from The New World Translation Of The Holy Scriptures: (Please check other translations to assure yourselves of the same idea is trensmited to ones mind)
Faith is the expectation of things hoped for, the evident demonstration of realities though not beheld.
How does one himself or herself of anything? I would say by intelligent examination of the facts. Prophecies stated and fullfilled in the Bible, archelogical evidence discovered to confirm the accuracty of long disputed things contained within the Bible. It is Jehovah’s Wittnesses hope also that Bible knowledge will motivate persons to make changes, if needed, in their life course so as to be a Christian. It is not them that does any conversion! That is stated at Hebrews 4:12 and again quoted fro THe New World Translation Of The Holy Scriptures Please check other translations to assure yourselves of the same idea is transmited to ones mind):
“For the word of God is alive and exerts power and is sharper than any two-edged sword and pierces even to the dividing of soul and spirit, and of joints and [their] marrow, and [is] able to discern thoughts and intentions of [the] heart.”
Jehovah’s Witnesses conduct their ministry publicly and try to help any interested persons to come to an accurate knowlege of the Bible. If their are disputes and the persons do not wish to continue their discussions Jehovah’s Witnesses will not argue and will politely take leave of where this is the wish of any persons they speak with. Since Jehovah’s Witnesses do conduct their ministry publicaly I would invite you to ask them any questions you may have as to why they have the faith they do and whatever questions in a peaceful manner tha you also may have. Herew again quoted from the New World Translation Of The Holy Scriptures is how Jehovah’s Witnesses try to conduct themselves although not perfectly as Jesus Christ is the only man to everwalk his entire life course on this Earth perfectly:
“17 Return evil for evil to no one. Provide fine things in the sight of all men. 18 If possible, as far as it depends upon YOU, be peaceable with all men.
I have no reason to believe that Prince Rogers Nelson is not making that his pursuit in life.
He plays music to make a living and I am sure that touring is not a life course I would like to take so that may have something to do with what I understand him trying to establish a residence.
Dan Fogelberg has a lines in the lyrics a couple of his songs about life being rough touring and playing music,
“Same Old Lang Syne”
Met my old lover in the grocery store
The snow was falling Christmas Eve
I stole behind her in the frozen foods
And I touched her on the sleeve
She didn’t recognize the face at first
But then her eyes flew open wide
She went to hug me and she spilled her purse
And we laughed until we cried
We took her groceries to the checkout stand
The food was totalled up and bagged
We stood there lost in our embarrassment
As the conversation dragged
We went to have ourselves a drink or two
But couldn’t find an open bar
We bought a six-pack at the liquor store
And we drank it in her car
We drank a toast to innocence, we drank a toast to now
And tried to reach beyond the emptiness but neither one knew how
She said she’d married her an architect
Who kept her warm and safe and dry
She would have liked to say she loved the man
But she didn’t like to lie
I said the years had been a friend to her
And that her eyes were still as blue
But in those eyes I wasn’t sure if I saw doubt or gratitude
She said she saw me in the record stores
And that I must be doing well
I said the audience was heavenly but the traveling was hell
We drank a toast to innocence, we drank a toast to now
And tried to reach beyond the emptiness but neither one knew how
We drank a toast to innocence, we drank a toast to time
Reliving in our eloquence, another ‘auld lang syne’
The beer was empty and our tongues were tired
And running out of things to say
She gave a kiss to me as I got out and I watched her drive away
Just for a moment I was back at school
And felt that old familiar pain
And as I turned to make my way back home
The snow turned in to rain…
“From the song “Leader Of The Band”
And I’m in Colorado when I’m not in some hotel.
A. Nonyomous

February 20, 2007 at 7:30 pm

(38) Paul Buchman says:

About the giants mentioned in the Bible referred to in Phil’s post above (comment #23)
The Bible indeed says there were giants:
GEN 6:4, “There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men who were of old, men of renown.”
Then the Bible says that every living creature on earth was killed by the flood except those on Noah’s ark:
GEN 7:23, “And every living substance was destroyed who was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth: and Noah only remained alive, and they that were with him in the ark.”
Then, sometime after the flood, the Bible reports that giants are still around.
NUM 13:33, “And there we saw the giants, the sons of Anak, who come of the giants: and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight.”
The Bible does not mention that giants were allowed on the ark. It rather leaves the opposite impression.
So whence came the giants after the flood?

February 20, 2007 at 9:23 pm

(39) A.Nonyomous says:

In comment 36 A.Nonyomous mistyped and where it reads:
“Faith is the expectation of things hoped for, the evident demonstration of realities though not beheld.”
It should read:
“”Faith is the assured expectation of things hoped for, the evident demonstration of realities though not beheld.”
And another error was made where it reads:
“How does one himself or herself of anything?”
It should read:
“How does one assure himself or herself of anything?”
As for as specific questions about tthe Bible being answered as I mentioned the ministry carried on by Jehovah’s Witnesses is public and if you have specific questions you want aswers to I suggest that if you encounter one of Jehovah’s Witnesses that you ask them and if they cannot answer the question at that time they will arrange a meeting with you at a future time and place of your convience and will have done sufficient research on the subject to give you an informed intelligent answer. You though will still have to make a decision whether or not to accept the answer as sufficient and true.
A. Nonyomous

February 24, 2007 at 9:27 pm

(40) John says:

Perhaps all you Holy Bible quoters can explain the contradictions that permeate your book.
http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/jim_meritt/bible-contradictions.html

February 24, 2007 at 10:04 pm

(41) John says:

Have you read Mr. Cline’s questions to and responses received from Diane Wilson, a former Jehovah’s Witness?
http://atheism.about.com/library/books/chats/bl_WilsonChat.htm?terms=Awakening+of+a+Jehovah%27s+Witness

March 1, 2007 at 7:17 pm

(42) Lotus says:

JW’s are not about converting, they are about studying the bible. They are about reading the scriptures and learning about it’s truth. The “system” is referring to the current state of mankind. Anyone who is happy with the current state of mankind is a liar. If you read the bible, ANT bible, it is written that God wants his people, his followers (those who speak and live his word) to live in peace. I think anyone who decides to follow Gods word deserves respect for trying to better themselves and their lives. Prince is a super star, his transision may be slower and a little akward even. But my prayers are with him, and I repect him more as a man now than I do as an artist. I say let him be, and PLEASE get your facts straight before you slander a man who is trying to do right in his life.

March 1, 2007 at 7:55 pm

(43) Austin Cline says:

PLEASE get your facts straight before you slander a man who is trying to do right in his life.

Unless you can identify anything I have gotten wrong in what I have said about Prince, your accusation could be construed as slanderous (technically: libelous, since it’s printed).
As far as I can tell, you don’t like what I have written – but that’s not the same as supporting the accusation that I have written anything that is incorrect.

September 23, 2007 at 6:46 pm

(44) Ross says:

Wow…first off if you have an article on the Jehovah’s Witnesses under the article Agnosticism / Atheism, I’d have to say that you’re just like the rest of the worlds population. Your parochial views will blind you forever because you are unwilling to understand and differentiate from something that isn’t the norm.

September 23, 2007 at 6:49 pm

(45) Ross says:

Maybe you should check your facts before you go spilling your retoric to the every other sheep who will believe anything they hear!

September 23, 2007 at 6:57 pm

(46) Austin Cline says:

Wow…first off if you have an article on the Jehovah’s Witnesses under the article Agnosticism / Atheism, I’d have to say that you’re just like the rest of the worlds population. Your parochial views will blind you forever because you are unwilling to understand and differentiate from something that isn’t the norm.

The article isn’t “under” Agnosticism/Atheism; that’s the title of the site. Feel free, though, to explain and support your accusations about me. Otherwise, you should retract them.

October 6, 2007 at 2:20 am

(47) Bracip says:

*Pity that all Witnesses aren’t given the same latitude *
How the heck do you know? Who’s to say they couldn’t drive a limo if they had one or if they wanted to?
*unlike other Witnesses, he participates in the “System” in ways that would normally be shunned. *
What ways? You mean by having a career? Because I know plenty of JW’s and they all have jobs and careers so exactly what are you talking about?

October 6, 2007 at 7:13 am

(48) Austin Cline says:

Who’s to say they couldn’t drive a limo if they had one or if they wanted to?

The Watchtower Society does — by creating a system of social control which prevents members from acquiring enough money to even have limos in the first place. There’s a reason why you don’t see rich Witnessess in the same way you see rich Catholics or Baptists.

What ways? You mean by having a career? Because I know plenty of JW’s and they all have jobs and careers so exactly what are you talking about?

I thought it would be obvious: producing and benefiting from the sort of mass, popular culture which Witnesses are normally prohibited from even enjoying passively, much less actively producing. Once again, there’s a reason why you don’t see Witnesses in Hollywood and the music industry like you see Christians, Jews, or Scientologists.

May 8, 2008 at 12:11 pm

(49) Oomo says:

There are no silicitations involved with Jehovah’s Witnesses so prince being able to “contribute millions” is an extremely moot point.
There is nothing sinful about having wealth or driving a limousine either, the only thing bible warns against is loving your wealth MORE than god.

May 8, 2008 at 12:15 pm

(50) Oomo says:

Prevented from aquiring wealth? Now you are just spreading lies and mistruths, the Jehovah’s Witnesses do not forbid well paying jobs, careers in the music or film industry nor the aquisition of wealth “The LOVE of money…” is the root of all evil, not having money.
But of course this is the interent, your anonmity allows you spread as many lies as you wish huh?

June 25, 2008 at 10:41 am

(51) Mauricio A. says:

Your quote:
The Watchtower Society does — by creating a system of social control which prevents members from acquiring enough money to even have limos in the first place. There’s a reason why you don’t see rich Witnessess in the same way you see rich Catholics or Baptists.
Is simply not true.
First you make a statement that should be taken to be true without demonstration(something you requested insistently to other people here), then you take a conclusion out of nowhere.
There’s no “social control” in the sense most people understand. There are the Bible teachings that say we have to give priority to God’s works. You decide how you that affects your life – the end result is between you and God and nobody has anything to do with it either inside or outside the WT society – as long as the way you earn your money is not against the Bible teachings. But no JW is disassociated just by being rich or earning lots of money. I can tell you that after being a 38 years old engineer, 38 as a JW, having a high paying job in a South American country, I’ve never seen such a thing. If you have a proof that what I said is systematically and not episodically wrong(problems happen even among atheists I suppose) please provide – my proof is my experience, and I don’t go about writing that in a public blog expecting people to believe.
Now if you do provide that information in a public way(the social control “theory” above) as being true you should provide more reliable proof yourself – maybe a JW’s magazine or book in print. It’s easy, you just have to ask them the literature when they pass by your door or ask for a Bible study to check yourself what they believe.
If you mean by “social control” the Bible teachings they accept to abide to as members of the society(and not a paranoid system to control peoples lives in every aspect like the comunists did), well then that’s a disputable way of viewing things to say the least. Everybody that follows a religion does so because one wants to. So you can’t say that the religion is a way of “social control” in a sense that the people that follow it is like cattle. Even a contry’s set of laws is a means of some sort of “social control”, and I don’t suppose you think that having a set of laws to “control the social behaviour of citizens” is wrong, otherwise I guess a country without laws wouldn’t be called a society. The way you depict things it looks like the JW’s are a bunch of stupid people and that’s as far from the truth as most of the disparaging comments I’m used to see/listen.
As you have asked other people here, don’t make statements you can’t prove. Frankly, telling that “you don’t see rich Witnessess in the same way you see rich Catholics or Baptists” proves what? Please use academic logic to answer this question. It may or may not suggest something, but it is proof of nothing.
Again if you need more information about JW’s you just have to ask them directly whatever you want, and if you wish to see how things work with your own eyes you can visit any of the Kingdom Halls wherever you want, or any of the Society’s branch office. Visits are welcomed.
Good old days when the atheists tried to convince people not to believe in God without making disparaging comments about other people’s beliefs.

August 26, 2008 at 4:19 pm

(52) sienna33 says:

I noticed that you have never replied to the above comment. Is that because you realize that have no rebuttle?? I really don’t know what Prince does. And I really don’t think that any of his religious beliefs or practices are anyone elses business. But come on man. Some of the crap you’re spewing is just rediculous. Jehovah’s witnesses are not allowed to have money or be rich? Where are you getting this stuff from? Can you qoute the credible source this came from? Because even though I no longer am one of Jehovah’s witnesses, I was part of the organization for 18 years, and this is new to me. There are many well off people in the organization. And they would have wanted Prince to join them whether he had money or not. You know why? Because the truly believe that they have the truth. Even if the don’t, who’s business is it to critisize them or prince or anyone else for that matter. They have a belief system that gives them good morals and a happy hope to look forward to. If you, or I or anyone else doesn’t believe the same things what’s the big deal. Are they personally hurting you? Many of histories tragedies have occured because people disliked or were afraid of something that was different than them. How sad that in this day and age people still have the same single-minded judgemental hearts.

November 16, 2008 at 3:07 am

(53) Jeanna P. says:

Oh and one more thing we do not have churches we have Kingdom Halls.

November 20, 2008 at 8:59 pm

(54) Rational Soul says:

I think the reason the author might have stopped responding to these increasinly vitriolic and irrational posts is that he may be tired of trying to have a rational conversation with people who have long since abandoned reason, and given over their higher reasoning to a 2000 year old book.

December 30, 2008 at 3:25 pm

(55) chereka says:

just a fyi we dont hold him in any higher regards as any one of us if you came to a meeting then you would know that we dont pass a donation plate around like others and all contributions are in private and done at your own motives so if you give .01 or 100.00 then so be it and how ever he has to get the message out then so be it either with or without bodyguards everyone has a past and can we please aloow him to place his in the past..thank you a..PROUD JEHOVAH”S WITNESS

February 7, 2009 at 10:44 pm

(56) G says:

You guys would probably be shocked to know that yes he is a Witness and yes he has toned it down but we do not shun any for personal choice it is true that we probably would not pursue involvement in the industry but not because it is necessarily bad but because of the influence of Satan, I know some of you don’t believe, (by the way we don’t think anything of anyone with different belief systems Jehovah made us with the free will). Doing things that may result in harmful effects on someone for example committing adultery and bringing home an std to your mate will likely cause some serious physical and mental stress and possibly death we only do follow many of the teachings of the bible because you find practical use of its teachings not because we are brainwashed actually many people do not realize I am a witness till I say it. I wear “cat eyes” black MAC gel liner even to the hall and out in public like every other girl even all black in many cases I have always been a little darker in my appearance but the friends love me just the same before and after my baptism. It is my personal choice if I decide to marry or not marry it is my personal choice if I want to marry someone else who is not a witness; you know my Mom was a witness and my Dad was not and they got married. He noticed he had the same feelings about general morals and decided he wanted to know more about my Mom’s religion the more he came to know the more he liked he chose to become a witness and when I was about six I witnessed his baptism. In fact my friend/co-worker is now studying for the same reason we got to talking and now she is studying with another set of witnesses near to her, her Hall is little way form mine. I on my own, in discussions with friends of different beliefs, who are still friends today, and reading about various religions from their home sites found that the only information that made sense was my home religion Jehovah’s Witnesses I was baptized last year at the District convention I was number 31 of 31 I am normal in every way not brainwashed and if you talk to a witness just for a second you will see that. And yes I still listen to Nine Inch Nails, HIM, Korn and many other groups I just by the edited version by my own wanting to that many words after a while can turn into daggers, yes it may be frowned upon but it is a personal choice I have to make and so I do when I hit the buy button on iTunes… And to add to the list of witnesses The Jacksons all of them at one time were witnesses I believe it is down to Rebe and their Mom although I did hear from a co-worker that their father is now studying. Michael actually was disfellowshipped for his making of Thriller. Yes you will be amazed who witnesses are and I would leave you with more funny stories of discovery but I fear I have worn out my stay. Hope you guys did not mind me writing but I want the truth out there I feel like we get “posterchild’ed” all the time I guess we are doing something right we have people talking on here…

February 7, 2009 at 10:58 pm

(57) G says:

Additional comment: We do not try to convert just help those who are studying the bible understand the bible. We are not looking for the 144,000 either people we can’t they were already hand picked by Jehovah himself and they do not display they are these ones. Another comment: we do not say what we believe is gold we always change to be correct when it comes to different biblical facts if it comes out that a belief is not correct than we correct it and publish it so that the others who are witnesses will see the correction too so it is not like we are running around with statements that are not backed up and if anyone wants we could discuss it but that is up to you and actually science does back up the fact that we could not have happened out of mere chance and various articles have come to light about this even ones who are not witnesses have agreed in some ways that scientifically speaking we are correct in many of our beliefs… okay I go I go…

March 3, 2009 at 11:53 am

(58) Hermann says:

You write: Pity that all Witnesses aren’t given the same latitude –
>>
Yes, I agree, it is a pity. They really would deserve a limo each one of them for their self-sacrificing work in helping others. And a tailor made suit. I love to wear tailor-made suits.. stop being jealous. What’s your problem, mate?
You ask: You don’t suppose that has anything to do with it, do you? >> No, I don’t thinks so. I know those guys. They would not think twice to disfellowship him if he would break Bible laws and would not shape up = repent. Money is no criteria in those cases. Might seem strange to you, I understand.

March 30, 2009 at 9:30 pm

(59) nina says:

I’m a Jehovah witness and before that I was catholic when I was a kid and I’m Mexican so the dramatic change made my family members upset. In this case if Price does things that are improper that’s his problem. Of course the Jehovah Witness will jump in but people intend to believe that Jehovah Witness believers are controlling and prefect people. If you’re a believer or not it doesn’t say your good or bad. If you preach people what we shouldn’t do or say and instead you do what you said not too. We are not Jesus lol we are not trying to convince you to change your life for us we are just humans who are being human. I don’t know you but I want you to have hope and try to live your life peacefully no matter what problems are trying to hurt you. When I peach that how I feel. If he thinks this way too he is a person just like you who has feelings and hope. Sounds cheese but It could be it. I’ll leave if you don’t what me to share it with you of course you’re on your own just like I am that will never change lol. Everyone is on their own when you form a relation with anybody. Reading these negative comments about Jehovah Witness makes us sound like freaks LoL. Just like there are bad and good people in this plant so are some people who claim they are Jehovah Witness. All the ones who give you negative feedback are just normal people who make mistakes. I respect everyone religion and this is coming from someone who has lived all their live in the city of Yonkers, NY. My friends are from all different parts of the world and beliefs. And what’s with calling us JW initials?Jehova does not care if he is a famous musician he only care about his heart and Jehova is the only one to judge him. He is not any better then anybody else lol. Thank you for hearing me out! (^o^)

May 4, 2009 at 5:25 am

(60) John says:

You are an ignorant moron, this article has no facts and is based on lies and common misconseptions. Witnesses do not take millions from people and witnesses do not get paid. Get your facts right before you express your pathetic opinions.
Find yourself a new job… your utterly hopeless at this one

July 27, 2009 at 1:01 pm

(61) peace_lily308 says:

Anyone who’s followed Prince’s music from its inception should realize that his spirituality (although somewhat warped and confused) has always been woven into his music, right alongside his sexuality, from long before he ever became a Jehovah’s Witness (“I’ve got two sides, and they’re both friends”). One memory that really stands out for me from attending his concerts as an older teen and young adult was when the lights would dim, attendees would pull out their lighters, and Prince would sing stuff like, “Love is God, God is Love, girls and boys love God above.”
Last I heard, he was investigating the Scientology religion after JWs (both local and at headquarters) got their panties in a wad over one of his performances. Apparently, Prince was unwilling to bow to their arbitrary, Pharisitical rules the way MJ did after making Thriller. One JW even commented that his wearing makeup and high heels promoted homosexuality. What??? Prince is not a tall man, and has always used heels to increase his stature, and can you imagine the washed-out faces of actors and musicians under the heavy lighting on stage (not to mention distance from the audience) if they were prohibited from wearing stage makeup? The lady said it shook her faith…her faith is obviously pretty shallow then.
My heart goes out to Prince. It’s obvious that this is a man who’s spent his whole life trying to measure up to some invisible standard, and underneath that prideful exterior, his self-esteem is actually very low and he knows he falls short. Wake up, Prince…we all do, none of us are perfect either. Only Jesus was. And “it was for FREEDOM that Christ set us free; therefore keep standing firm and do not be subject again to a yoke of slavery.” (Gal. 5:1) No amount of door knocking or money will earn your salvation. The Bible says, “But God demonstrates His own love for us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.” There is nothing you can do to make yourself worthy of being saved. Isaiah 64:6 says we are all like one who is unclean, and all our righteous works are like filthy rags to God. See, God will meet you right where you are this very moment, no matter what you’ve done in your past. In Acts 16:30, a man asked Paul what he had to do to be saved. Paul told him, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.” Once you believe that Jesus died for your sins and God raised Him from the dead and repent (Luke 13:3), He comes in and begins to change you from the inside out. You don’t have to change or do a thing on your own in order to gain His affection. You are HIS son just the way you are right now if you accept his free gift.

August 25, 2009 at 1:19 pm

(62) Gabe says:

I know I am a bit late in the conversation but I want to make a point about number 22 comment.
“Phil” mentioned on comment 21 that he “feels”, not “knows”, that they are on the right track. JWs feel that they demonstrate how every day by going door-to-door or “field service”. Please feel free to demonstrate how they are not on the right track.
The main thing to me is that you want evidence supporting the claim that no one but Noah and his family survived the great flood which is mentioned in the Bible due to not listening to prophecy. Well, the evidence IS the Holy Scripture.
I am sure you choose not to believe that the Bible is the word of God and a true source of history/evidence because you weren’t there and you don’t have pictures. I am also pretty sure you were not there or have seen pictures of Prince getting out of his limo to go door-to-door but you are quick to believe that. I will not say it did not happen. But why should I prove that. The person that is making the accusations of Prince should provide proof. I could make so many lies about you but why should you have to prove they are lies. Shouldn’t I have to prove they are not? I am the one bringing them to everyone’s attention. In any court of law in the USA the burden of proof falls on the prosecution. Only when that is provided should the defendant have to prove innocence. Besides, if you are right in there not being a God then those who choose to believe lose nothing. But if the JWs are right and you choose not to believe, you will lose everlasting life.

September 8, 2009 at 4:34 pm

(63) Nina M. says:

First, please everyone use your spell-check on all outgoing mail. Second, the Golden Rule. Three, please be polite. Thank you.

November 1, 2009 at 5:29 pm

(64) sonny says:

I agree, and responsible means not immoral sexually and otherwise, not promoting it, caring about the fact that this world is crap, and going down fast, and wanting to help inform the citizens, THAT responsible!
The author obviously is slanted against JW’s. Saying” close your mind and open your Bible’”means potentially brainwashing?
disgusting, ridicules atheist blather

November 21, 2009 at 10:46 pm

(65) dantia says:

I was just waiting to see someone at least say that:
(1)Prince had acquired all these things before he became a witness. And he still had obligations to his career.
(2) If he had given everything away then you would really say its a cult. And what a lot of people dnt know is that alot of cults do things in secret. Jehovah’s Witnesses let you know why they do or don’t do things. If he wanted to give it away, they wouldn’t take it. All contributions are made voluntarily.
(3)Jehovah’s Witnesses are taught to live modestly and most Jehovahs Witnesses are very sucsessful because the adhere to bible principles. So maybe they aren’t in limos but they are definately provided for and blessed by Jehovah(God)
(4)Its nobody’s business what that man has. Its not his fault his has other things to do other than bash people and their religions
FYI! Jehovah’s witnesses are also considered true christians, because they try to do whatever Jesus did in the Bible AND I DONT MEAN PERFORMING MIRACLES. I mean that Jesus went door to door, town to town, to teach about Jehovah and his purpose for us. Jesus didnt celebrate b-days or holidays not even Easter do your homework and dont knock other religions for the sake of boosting up your beliefs.
Thank You and Good Night

May 6, 2010 at 4:53 pm

(66) JIRAH says:

WHEN YOU SAY THAT YOU HAVE TO HAVE SOMETING TO SUPPORT YOUR CLAIM….THAT’S BORING AND WEAK. YOU SAY THINGS LIKE JW’S CONVERT PEOPLE, I PERSONALLY KNOW THAT THEY WILL TALK TO YOU ABOUT THE BIBLE THEN INVITE YOU TO A KINGDOM HALL. IF YOU DON’T WANT TO, YOU DON’T GO. THAT SEEMS MORE LIKE A VOLUNTEER TYPE THING.

June 20, 2010 at 1:47 pm

(67) St. John says:

Oh come on, there has to be some ground here for common sense, at the end of the day, this is a world renown SUPER STAR ! he would probably be mugged if he just walked down the street door to door, he has to have security and transportation. Because he has to change his strategy a little bit, makes him less committed ? That’s an insane conclusion. If it were a baptist church, would he be less committed if he drove a Cadillac to service, and other members had to catch the ‘church van’? Makes no sense, this is just an opportunity for you to bash Jehova Whitnesses. I have no problem with that, but let it make some sense next time. Prince, indeed !

January 19, 2011 at 10:49 pm

(68) Paul says:

Austin was “owned!”
Do I need proof to support my claim?

August 24, 2011 at 2:21 pm

(69) rit says:

hi i am 12years old, a real jehovahs witness, and we dont convert anyone. they make that descision on their own. i appreciate ur concern for my brother, and we will keep preaching the word. And we do believe that Satan is ruling this system. But think about this: would you let ur 15 year old go out and have a baby before marriage? would you basically want to be commiting suicide by smoking? would you read a bible that has cuss words? (and yes ass means donkey.) wouldn’t u want to tell others about an amazing discovery u just made? think about that. prince has made his own descision! oh, and austin cline… could u please stop critiscising other peoples views cause everyone hates when u do that.. and its their views soooo stop…… and yes it a free country, but if u dont have anything else to do with your life but critiscise… u must stop.