comments from JW's on www.jehovahswitnessblog.com part 2

Sorry, the browser you are using is not currently supported. Disqus actively supports the following browsers:
FirefoxChromeInternet Explorer 8+Safari
This page is forcing your browser to use legacy mode, which is not compatible with Disqus. Please see our troubleshooting guide to get more information about this error.
We were unable to load Disqus. If you are a moderator please see our troubleshooting guide.
Hoeras
You and I have nothing further to discuss. You are a seriously disturbed person. You really believe all this rubbish? Incredible.
Steve
Hoeras,
Sadly, yours is a typical Witness response to evidence: shut your eyes, plug your ears, holler "It's all rubbish from the mentally diseased apostates!" and dream on.
Steve
Hoeras,
You have a point. I agree with the Witness stance of conscientious objection to military service. Though for different reasons: I think killing people whom ones country has labeled "the enemy" is seldom moral or sensible. The Witnesses, on the other hand, refrain from military service for the same reason they refrain from voting: their allegiance is to Jehovah's kingdom, and their support is for the ultimate act of violence: his coming war against all the rest of mankind.
Witnesses have no real objection to violence per se: Their "Bible heroes" were mass murderers for the most part: David, Solomon, Joshua, Moses, Samson... And let's not forget the greatest mass-murderer of them all, whom they worship and want to be like: Jehovah!
The organization, by its nature and policies also allows violence to women and children. This takes the form of physical and psychological abuse. I have seen a member in good standing (later a MS, by now certainly an elder) beating his children and his wife with a belt when they were laughing during their family "Bible study." He terrified his children, and I'm sure to them the word "terrorist" would've been an appropriate appellation for their father.
Then there are the deaths caused by their stupid rules against life-saving medical procedures: formerly vaccinations and organ-transplants, and still today blood transfusions. Death by policy, with a threat of shunning and eternal death for violating the policy or leaving the organization. That sounds like terrorism to me.
Then we have the elders who molest the children in the congregations with impunity. Non-violent? I think not.
When Rutherford surrounded himself with cane-wielding bodyguards, was that the act of a pacifist?http://articlestoreprint.net/?...
Finally, of course, there have been Jehovah's Witnesses in good standing who have committed murder (at least one of whom was defended by the Watchtower's own lawyer!)http://marvinshilmer.blogspot....http://watchtowernews.org/JWmu...http://watchtowernews.org/fami...
This is the least important of my points, as one can always say: "Well, they weren't following the JW lifestyle when they committed murder." I only include these links to show that you are wrong when you clam that "whoever did any of those [violent acts] was *not* a Jehovah's Witness."
Being a Witness is no guarantee of moral behavior. People are still people. Filling their heads with delusions and fairy tales about "Jehovah's Kingdom" doesn't really affect their morality; it just gives them a false hope. [A hope which includes a joyful "looking forward" to the violent death of the vast majority of humankind.] Often, because of the structure of the organization, it just makes matters worse by giving them a position of power (eldership) along with the opportunity to abuse other people who are told to keep quiet about it so as not to hurt the image of the organization.
Remember the book "The Nations Shall Know That I Am Jehovah: How?" Well, that was one of the study books when I was a Witness, so I remember it well. It had an entire chapter entitled "Where the Bashing of Heads Begins." A nice, pacifist sentiment? That was on par with Rutherford's book "Enemies," which listed everyone outside of the organization as being on Jehovah's hit list. The Watchtower has a long history of hatred against those outside its fold, and countless articles graphically describing their violent end (which Witnesses greedily drink in).
I believe that if the Watchtower announced as "new light" that Jehovah wanted Witnesses to start helping to usher in Armageddon, then the fanatical Witnesses who remained in the organization would eagerly engage in bloodshed. As the Witnesses began acting out their favorite fantasy, no one in the world would then hesitate to call them terrorists.
So, I conscientious object to your terrorist organization. As should you, if you're really committed to non-violence.
Hoeras
In 2001 after "911" and the extreme response to it, including spawning two wars, Iraq and Afghanistan, notwithstanding that two firemen who died in the Twin Towers were Jehovah's Witnesses, I said to a number of our brothers:
"It is now only a matter of time when we will be called an extreme terrorist organisation."
"We will be labelled terrorists, or a terrorist organisation."
THAT DAY HAS ARRIVED.
It was bound to happen. In Russia, they can't have it both ways, accusing us of refusing military service, "learning war" means "learning how to kill fellow human beings" and being in any way violent, is NO OPTION for any Jehovah's Witness.
We are the most peaceful people on Earth because we have renounced violence COMPLETELY. We say no to any form of service that prepares a person for violent behaviour.
ANY violent behaviour !!!
That is why Hitler hated us, so did Stalin and many others, now in Russia they accuse us of the same, they can't have it both ways. Non-violence is a POSITIVE QUALITY.
My Father was arrested and jailed for refusing military service, my brother and I had to flee the country of our birth or potentially suffer the same. This was during the Cold War years. As the late boss of the Pentagon, Robert McNamarra said, those years of the Cold War was "damn hot" - and he said that only luck had prevented the most dreaded war of all. (Or actually God protected what was not for us to have the right to destroy.)
Remember this, if your house is ever broken into, or your car, if you are ever robbed at gun-point, or assaulted by a stranger, or sworn at in the street using foul language. Or if a bomb goes off in your town or ANY town or place in the world, or you were bombed or straifed from the sky by a Warthog A10, or hurt or killed by a hidden home-made bomb of the side of the road, whoever did that.. or any of those things...
THAT PERSON WAS *NOT* A JEHOVAH'S WITNESS.













Sorry, the browser you are using is not currently supported. Disqus actively supports the following browsers:
FirefoxChromeInternet Explorer 8+Safari
This page is forcing your browser to use legacy mode, which is not compatible with Disqus. Please see our troubleshooting guide to get more information about this error.
We were unable to load Disqus. If you are a moderator please see our troubleshooting guide.
bianca
First of all 1914 is special to us because it is the year that the last days began
second we don't think that ammagadon was supposed to happen in 1918 amagadon is on jehovahs own time but it is near (read 1timothy 3:1-3) and we don't sell the awake it is free also Jehovah says to take care of ourselves so we don't just drop everything and pionner so how bout u fix those errors (like the ones one ur face and the document ) and check ur own religion k and quit disrespecting ours gottit dude?
Steve
Hi Bianca,
Your comments show that you don't know the history of your own religion.
We used to sell the Awake.
Prior to 1914 the Watchtower taught that year to be the END of the last days, not their start.
Back in the early to mid seventies (when I was a Witness) the Watchtower praised Witnesses who sold their homes and quit their jobs to pioneer before the end came in 1975. I was there, I read it for myself in the then-current Kingdom Ministry. Evidently you weren't there, and haven't checked your sources, preferring to tout your ignorance.
I have read the original Watchtower publications in the Bethel library, and I can tell you from first-hand experience with those documents that there are no errors in Teeny's blog. This IS his religion (or at least it was: he was brought up in it, and remained in it until he discovered its lying nature.)
I'd say he's giving it just as much respect as it deserves.
Teeny
Exactly!
I started JWB because after I had started digging into the Watchtower Organisation's past, I felt I needed to let as many current Jehovah's Witnesses know the truth.
To be honest, it's been pretty easy as the Watchtower has so many sources to pick from.
Try looking some up Bianca
Regards,
Jaymes
KLS
I used to be a JW and this is so so true and Funny!!!!











Sorry, the browser you are using is not currently supported. Disqus actively supports the following browsers:
FirefoxChromeInternet Explorer 8+Safari
This page is forcing your browser to use legacy mode, which is not compatible with Disqus. Please see our troubleshooting guide to get more information about this error.
We were unable to load Disqus. If you are a moderator please see our troubleshooting guide.
sharon
I also looked up JW's and the occult. What I found pushed me out of the organization 3 weeks ago. As if the JW's and Scandals weren't enough for me. I had to research more. I renounced my faith in the organization to a Pastor on Friday. I made up my mind to go to the Memorial and to partake of the emblems and obey Jesus' command to eat and drink. I cannot believe all the information that I found out. I will never go back to the demon based religion ever again. I have been warning everyone I know. It's only a matter of time before they disfellowship me. But I am ready for it.l I've been in this cult for 53 years. I am now 56, I am so grateful that I found out about Jesus before I died!











Sorry, the browser you are using is not currently supported. Disqus actively supports the following browsers:
FirefoxChromeInternet Explorer 8+Safari
This page is forcing your browser to use legacy mode, which is not compatible with Disqus. Please see our troubleshooting guide to get more information about this error.
We were unable to load Disqus. If you are a moderator please see our troubleshooting guide.
LO
I searched and searched and couldn't find any bloopers...Every year in the name of Jesus, people LIE to their children, telling them that Santa Claus delivers presents and blah blah blah. Is LYING bad always or sometimes? Well...1 little fib helped Adam & Eve sinned and put the world in the state that it is in today. Christmas was really winter solstice in which Pagans (people who worship nature and such) celebrated the return of the sun. Fake Christians made the winter solstice celebration Christmas in order to convert Pagans to "Christianity". In other words, they merged condemned pagan beliefs with the Bible in order to get people to agree.
9











Sorry, the browser you are using is not currently supported. Disqus actively supports the following browsers:
FirefoxChromeInternet Explorer 8+Safari
This page is forcing your browser to use legacy mode, which is not compatible with Disqus. Please see our troubleshooting guide to get more information about this error.
We were unable to load Disqus. If you are a moderator please see our troubleshooting guide.
jws
I'm a few chapters into this book and find it informative and entertaining.
Like the author, I was once a Jehovah's Witness. I was taught the Bible was infallible and perfectly in sync, but that is obviously not true. And if that is not true, then it's not divinely inspired. And if God didn't write it, why should we believe it any more than we might believe the Lord of the Rings Trilogy actually happened? Or any other popular work of fiction?
When Witnesses come knocking at my door, I'd love to have a list of contradictions available to have them look up and read.
What I don't want is for them to be able to come back with an explanation that makes sense.
The Goliath thing in this book is, I believe one such example. Yes, 2 Samuel does say that Elhanan killed Goliath, but there is an almost identical verse in 1 Chronicles 20:5 that says Elhanan killed the brother of Goliath.
So elsewhere in the Bible, it says David killed Goliath and Elhanan killed Goliath's brother. Those two accounts can both be true. But then you have this oddball verse that doesn't make sense that says Elhanan killed Goliath. The parallel accounts should sync, but don't.
IMO, this seems to indicate that there was maybe a copy error in 2 Samuel 21:19. I'm sure the ancient Hebrew text it was translated from has the error. But we don't have any original texts.
So, somebody who believes in the Bible could make a convincing argument that the transcript we have must have a scribal error. You have a parallel account that says something different that harmonizes with David killing Goliath, and one that's different. Chances are the thing out of place was an error in copying.
IMO, that's a whole different rebuttal that makes sense and isn't some crazy invention like the example explanations given in this book. ie. this was a symbolic Goliath or some such nonsense. It involves admitting there are errors in the Bible, but explainable ones. And leaves the possibility open for the believer that the original texts were in perfect harmony. I don't believe what they do, yet I could still give their side the benefit of the doubt on this one. And maybe the reader of this should be informed of such rebuttals. Otherwise, it's just sensationalist journalism.
Of course, there are several such examples and that fact, taken as a whole should raise eyebrows in itself. Yes, we can catch some errors by looking at parallel accounts, but why are there so many errors in the first place? What does that say about the integrity of the book? What about the books that don't have parallel accounts? How do we know what mistakes they might contain?
Yes, it's fun to point out things that don't make sense. Did Noah bring 2 of each kind of bird on the ark or 7? How did Judas die?
But when there's a simple explanation, it makes us look like we didn't do our research. I'd rather go to the believers with solid contradictions. Like when God says he'll curse people to the nth generation and another verse says God doesn't do that.
Steve
Hi jws,
You have a valid point. I'm the author of a similar book, and it's true that some contradictions are "more solid" than others. However, the fundamentalist will ALWAYS have some kind of answer--one that satisfies him or her--though it will seem the height of sophistry to the rest of us.
In my book I point out in the introduction that "bad translation" is an unacceptable excuse. If God meant us to have "his word" and went to all the trouble of inspiring men to write it all down for our edification, then it would be reasonable to expect him to also have guided the copiests and translators to ensure that his meaning was preserved. If he failed to do this, then it casts a very large doubt on his ever having inspired the original writing.
Here's an analogy: someone translated my novel Falling in Truth into Hungarian and published it on the Web without my knowledge or permission. [Actually I'm grateful to him for having done this--even though he left off the last few chapters which he probably didn't agree with.] If I knew Hungarian I would certainly proofread it to make sure my points came across correctly. Do we think that an all-mighty god would do any less? He sees people miscopying or mistranslating his word and doesn't guide them (despite their prayers for him to do so)? It makes no sense. So, the "bad translation" excuse merely bolsters the argument that the Bible cannot be the word of any god.
As for this particular contradiction, it makes more sense that Elhanan was the killer and that this otherwise unknown man was replaced in the legend by King David. In this excerpt from my novel Layers of Truth a supposedly resurrected King David is asked about it point-blank by the Governing Body:
"Tell us, King David, what was it like to kill that giant Goliath?"
"Goliath?" David responded in surprise. "I never killed Goliath; that was Elhanan, the son of Jaare-oregim, of Bethlehem: he killed Goliath in one of our battles against the Philistines at Gob. I was almost killed in that battle by
another giant by the name of Ishbi-benob. But Abishai the son of Zeruiah delivered me by slaying him."
The members seemed thunderstruck at this reply, and an even longer silence followed.
"Brother Kline," Henderson said at last, "will you kindly escort King David from the room for a moment?"
Bruce stood up and opened the conference room door for David, who dutifully followed him out into the lobby where an anxious Peter Frawley was waiting.
Henderson waited for Bruce to return, and then he slowly surveyed the faces he knew so well.
"This is King David," he pronounced. "No man pretending to be David would ever deny the most famous story told about him."
"But he's contradicting the Bible's account," brother Klaus complained.
"Well," Cyril explained, "many bible scholars have held that the account at Second Samuel 21:15-22 is the true account of how Goliath was killed by Elhanan, not David, and that it later became attributed to the much better known David (as legends always eventually become attached to great men's
names).
"In fact verse 22 is a foreshadowing of that very process: despite relating how four giants (Goliath among them) were killed by David's men (with David not participating in the battle after having fainted) it says they were killed 'by the hand of David, and by the hand of his servants.' Likely the part about 'his
servants' eventually faded from the story and it came to be attributed to David alone, though he clearly had no part in the killing of the giants according to Second Samuel."
I disagree that making such points "makes us look like we didn't do our research." If we want to do a thorough job of exposing the Bible for what it is, then it is only right to point out the discrepancies that exist in the translations available to us. (Especially the KJV since it was the de facto "authorized" version for centuries, and which some fundamentalists believe to be an inspired translation.) The Bible claims to reveal its truths to the "unlettered and ordinary" which means that you shouldn't have to learn ancient Greek and Hebrew in order to read the "original" documents to understand it.
But, if you don't want to get mired in JW backlash to your points, then I agree that it's better to pull out the biggest guns. Compare Jesus' depiction of his "loving heavenly father" who cares about every sparrow and who wants us to forgive our enemies as he does -- with the angry vengeful monster Jehovah of the OT who demands animal sacrifices and orders his worshipers to butcher babies and tells them: "let your heart not feel sorry." That's the biggest contradiction of all, and doesn't rely on any one verse or translation. But you can expect a Kripkean dogmatist response: you HAVE to be wrong because they KNOW they're right.












Sorry, the browser you are using is not currently supported. Disqus actively supports the following browsers:
FirefoxChromeInternet Explorer 8+Safari
This page is forcing your browser to use legacy mode, which is not compatible with Disqus. Please see our troubleshooting guide to get more information about this error.
We were unable to load Disqus. If you are a moderator please see our troubleshooting guide.
Shabba
Dude Amen to that!!! Expert delivery and maximum impact!.. Isn't it funny how non-JWs research so much more than JWs.. maybe its because they are educated and learn reasoning and balanced arguments.
sammy
excuse me we preach the good news to save people and don't worry one day when Armageddon arrives and your not ready you'll see what will happpen, then dont go crying to us because god gave you a second chance of life to live forever. people dont understand that we are the only religion in the world were all nationally get along together.
we dont take out things from the bible that we may not like, WE stick to them even if its hard. the preist know that we are the true religion, that we do EVeRYTHING according to the bible but the preist dont want to tell the truth because there scared that there people would leave there religion and knew that ours was right all along. but therejust doing that for them money and fame. do you think they really care about the people and of them finding the right religion, not a chance there greedy and selfish.
also preist should be ashamed of themselves rapeing and killing children, they tell others not to do it and what are they doing them selves? it even says it in the bible but nah they pick what they like best and get rid of the rest and do what pleases themselves. selfish. we are the one and only religion we peace and love in found. THE ONLY
Steve
Hi Sammy,
You're quick to judge priests as "greedy" and "selfish." Really? All of them? You say they rape and kill children and that they know that your religion ["the only one where peace and love are found"] is right.
Those are some extraordinary claims! Such claims, of course, will require extraordinary proof. So, let's look at your evidence: oops -- you forgot to supply any!
Let's see if I can help you with that.
Molestation is certainly a big problem in the Catholic church: no argument there. There are also some rare instances of priests murdering children: an orthodox priest killed his wife and son before committing suicide back in 2009. In 2010 a Catholic priest solicited the murder of a boy who accused him of sexual molestation. Of course these are considered sins by those religious organizations. How well they enforce this (by excommunication) is certainly debatable. But it is not their POLICY to murder children.
Now let's look at your religion. Hmmm, it seems that your religion also has many cases of child molestation, and your organization has a policy which, in effect, allows such crimes to go unreported, and hence unhindered. I guess that's why many have dubbed your religion a "paradise for pedophiles."
What about "killing children"? Hmmm, it seems that your religion imposes a law on its members that forbids parents from administering life-saving medical treatment to their children! Parents are required to actively refuse such treatment and then watch helplessly as their child bleeds to death before their eyes. The Watchtower calls this "Youth putting God first." I call it killing children.
What about "peace and love"? Hmmm, it seems that your religion has a rule about shunning members who think for themselves on doctrinal issues! I see that the suicide rate is about 5 times higher in your religion than average! I also see, as alluded to in your post, that your religion looks forward to the deaths of billions of people at the hands of your "loving" god in the bloodiest war of all time: "Armageddon."
"Peaceful"? "Loving"? "Good news?" I'm sorry, but it seems the evidence weighs heavily against you.
You claim that you follow EVERYTHING in the Bible and that you don't take anything out "even if it's hard." That's amazing! So, that means that you have sold EVERYTHING you owned and given the money to the poor! You must've been standing there naked, hungry, and jobless (taking no thought for tomorrow) in front of someone else's computer or mobile device as you typed your comment on this post. I guess the only thing you do own is a "torture stake" that you pick up and drag around with you everywhere you go in "following Jesus." Your days must consist of being regularly baptized for the dead; stepping on "serpents" and scorpions whenever you see them; whipping and vandalizing money-lenders; speaking in tongues; walking on water; exorcising demons; healing the blind and the deaf; and moving mountains by faith alone. I am SO impressed!
My sincere advice to you, Sammy, is to start thinking for yourself instead of swallowing whole [and then spewing back out at others] whatever crap the Watchtower crams down your throat.
Andres Torres
Do you tell your elders what you're reading? Why even bother coming here unless you already have doubts?
Danny Haszard
The Jehovah's Witnesses on one hand fill their books and lectures with details about how evil and corrupt every other religion is, but then when theirs is exposed as corrupt they fall back on how it's "voluntary" to be a member, and how it's not nice to say nasty things about them, and how they're being "persecuted."
Jehovah's Witnesses are unpopular for many reasons, none of which matched the early church except for non-political involvement, which is not exclusive to them at all. They are like carnival hucksters preaching the need to become a Jehovah's Witness or die at Armageddon.
They say they promote good family life? Only until you disagree with the leadership in Brooklyn on the slightest of points, and then they completely divide and destroy the family. Then they write hypocritical articles like the new July 2009 Awake! "The Bible's Viewpoint - Is It Wrong to Change Your Religion?" and make themselves look open-minded and progressive, but practice the most destructive forms of shunning of all religions if you disobey the leadership's ever-changing doctrines, dates and rules.
Anyone can be persecuted, which proves nothing if you are a religion invented in the late 1800s by a man who was into pyramidology, numerology, and who stood on the top of a building with a white sheet waiting to be raptured. 130 years later, they are still awaiting a false hope. -
--
Danny Haszard
Teeny
Superb comment Danny. I take it you were a Jehovah's Witness, right?












Sorry, the browser you are using is not currently supported. Disqus actively supports the following browsers:
FirefoxChromeInternet Explorer 8+Safari
This page is forcing your browser to use legacy mode, which is not compatible with Disqus. Please see our troubleshooting guide to get more information about this error.
We were unable to load Disqus. If you are a moderator please see our troubleshooting guide.
leonard abbott
Let the one that has intelegence calculate the number of the wild beast, for it's a man's number and it's number is 666.To calculate 666 other number are necessary. Dan 12:12 1,335 days. and rev 18:6 "Twice the number" twice the number" 2x666=1332.. now if you devide 2into 1,335 first you get "a mans number" 666 r3 and 2 into 667 =666 r 1.....What is the mesage Jehovah is giving us? We will have to wait for Jehovcah to tell us, Wha I believe is Jerusalem will be destroyed three times by man. and the rest of the wicked will be destroyed by Jehovah. History of Jehovah's witnesses began with the prophecy 606 BC as the date Jerusalem was destroyed, "Jehovah allowed this mistake to occure,"mans number" because another mistake made by man corrected the date, 1914..Russel forgot to count the yr 0 II I belierve Armageddon will start with the third destruction of Jerusalem The Romans came to destroy Jerusalem for the secon d time in 66 AD. when the city was packed because of the Passoved, killing 1,100,000 Jews. The third distruction could come on the night of the Passover, I am giving this warning because of "blood guilt" I don't want the blood of witnesses on my hands for not giving a warning.................... Brother Leonaerd Abbott,,
Teeny
Hi Leonard,
Thanks for the comment. I just have one issue with it - it's not in the Bible. No matter how much you want this to be the case, it simply isn't. Let it go, you've lost. There is nothing you can say that can convince any historian that Jerusalem was destroyed in 607 B.C.E.
Are you still holding onto it? Yeah, cults have that affect on people...
Kind regards,
Teeny










Sorry, the browser you are using is not currently supported. Disqus actively supports the following browsers:
FirefoxChromeInternet Explorer 8+Safari
This page is forcing your browser to use legacy mode, which is not compatible with Disqus. Please see our troubleshooting guide to get more information about this error.
We were unable to load Disqus. If you are a moderator please see our troubleshooting guide.
BlindersOff
Another good example of this
http://www.jehovahs-witness.ne...
http://i187.photobucket.com/al...









Sorry, the browser you are using is not currently supported. Disqus actively supports the following browsers:
FirefoxChromeInternet Explorer 8+Safari
This page is forcing your browser to use legacy mode, which is not compatible with Disqus. Please see our troubleshooting guide to get more information about this error.
We were unable to load Disqus. If you are a moderator please see our troubleshooting guide.
Spankfish
Is it not time to loose the "Faithful and discreet slave" bit. Its hardly discreet being sued for millions on child abuse charges. I would call that the polar opposite to discreet.









Sorry, the browser you are using is not currently supported. Disqus actively supports the following browsers:
FirefoxChromeInternet Explorer 8+Safari
This page is forcing your browser to use legacy mode, which is not compatible with Disqus. Please see our troubleshooting guide to get more information about this error.
We were unable to load Disqus. If you are a moderator please see our troubleshooting guide.
Andres Torres
You could always suppose that God simply transported the animals to and from the ark. The account does say that the animals "came to Noah" (Genesis 7:14-16). "With God all things are possible". That's the problem with believing in God, it's unfalsifiable. But then you can still ask yourself, "does this sound like history or does it sound like a myth?" The answer should be obvious to anyone who is honest with themselves.
Mons
All I want to know is how did the fresh water fish survive the great flood from contamination of salt water?
Teeny
Jehovah used magic. How else?
Teeny
Are we really debating the flood again? Ben is the sciencey one and so I am sure he's set the matter straight.
I am more the "well, if that did happen, let's take a look at this angle" kind of guy. So here are my questions for you Roland (and everyone else):
If God - the most powerful being in all the universe - decided that he wanted to wipe out all of mankind because they had wronged him, why did he apparently kill the trillions of innocent animals and plant life in the process? What had they done wrong? I mean, God was the guy that apparently invented time, planets and the human heart. Couldn't he have simply clicked his fingers and caused all the wicked one's hearts to stop working?
Now, there's no real answer to my above question, because if you tell me that "he knew what he was doing", then I don't want to worship him because frankly, I've spoken to five year old's with more sense than a God who would simply throw his toys out of the pram.
If you tell me that the Flood Story was simply a parable, then again, I would tell you that a parable that discusses the death of trillions of animals, no matter how strong of a meaning the parable had, is wrong. Wrong wrong wrong wrong and wrong!
The only logical explanation is that it didn't happen. Then there's the science, which proves it didn't happen.
Conclusion - the Flood Story never happened. I suppose this opens up a floodgate of wormed induced cans as Jesus Christ even confirmed the flood DID happen.
Did he exist? I suppose he did, in the same way the flood did.
Warm regards,
Teeny
roland985
Ben, there is evidence to show that Indonesia and Australia were connected to the main landmass thousands of years ago. So it's not entirely out of the question.
This article has a small explanation although I am not affiliated with this site:http://www.creationdefense.org...
I'm not a JW.
I am a Christadelphian.
Some may call us a cult also, but that's another story altogether!
Have a great day.
--
Roland
Ben
@Roland985 You are right that Australia and Indonesia were connected to a main landmass, but we are talking millions of years ago, not thousands. In geological time, a few thousand years ago is nothing - Australia would already be pretty much where it is today. All geological evidence we have proves this beyond doubt.
Secondly, even if the landmasses were connected, the distance between Australia and Mount Sinai would still have been too great for, say, a Koala bear to have made the journey. Nowhere in the bible does it say that god magicked them there.
Thirdly, our Koala bear would not have fit into the ark with the millions of other species.
Fourth, Koala bear food can't walk - how did Noah and his family collect enough food for all the animals to last the entire flood without going off? Where did they put it? The food alone would have taken up more space than the ark. The bible doesn't say that god helped out here.
Fifth, after the flood, how did our Koala bear get back to Australia? Not one of them died on the way, not leaving a single fossil or evidence that it was ever anywhere except in Australia?
Obviously, the flood never happened. Not only does scientific evidence disprove it, but common sense. I have to say, though, that the apologetic website you linked to made me laugh as it doesn't answer the question. It has a cop-out answer, "The answer really is very simple: we don’t know because we weren’t there." Then it says that evolutionists don't know either! Well, evolutionists aren't claiming it ever happened in the first place!!
Regards,
Ben
Anon
This is scientific fact, U actually have no argument here. Are u doing any research or just have a plain vendetta against the organisation? Animal Migration across Continents is a broadly known and accepted concept. Is it not?
Ben
Fact? Provide evidence of said claim.
And are you saying Kangaroos migrate? How did they, oh wise one, migrate from the middle east all the way to Australia? Last time I checked, Kangaroos can't fly and it's too far to swim...












Sorry, the browser you are using is not currently supported. Disqus actively supports the following browsers:
FirefoxChromeInternet Explorer 8+Safari
This page is forcing your browser to use legacy mode, which is not compatible with Disqus. Please see our troubleshooting guide to get more information about this error.
We were unable to load Disqus. If you are a moderator please see our troubleshooting guide.
Jonathan
Sick? Really? Clothes were an invention of sinful man (if you go in for the creation myth) so a return to perfection would put man and woman back into the original state. Naked Naked NAKED!
Teresa
i don't and not imagine Jehovah's witness being naked in paradise, and i don't think the same thing about be naked in heaven. Do you ben or any sick men in this planet want to see naked people in paradise.











Sorry, the browser you are using is not currently supported. Disqus actively supports the following browsers:
FirefoxChromeInternet Explorer 8+Safari
This page is forcing your browser to use legacy mode, which is not compatible with Disqus. Please see our troubleshooting guide to get more information about this error.
We were unable to load Disqus. If you are a moderator please see our troubleshooting guide.
Juliano
Is that vow still in effect? if yes I oncant understand why full-time pionners accept this vow.Truely I thought slavery was completely over.But it's not. This vow is worse than slavery. OH my God! Watchtower society goes way too far!!!!!! Can somebody put an end to this dangerous cult?











Sorry, the browser you are using is not currently supported. Disqus actively supports the following browsers:
FirefoxChromeInternet Explorer 8+Safari
This page is forcing your browser to use legacy mode, which is not compatible with Disqus. Please see our troubleshooting guide to get more information about this error.
We were unable to load Disqus. If you are a moderator please see our troubleshooting guide.
Amelia
i hope my story helped people to see what its like from a kid who was brought up in the religion
Steve
Hi Amelia,
Yes, I'm sure your story will help others to see the consequences of following this religion. Thanks so much for sharing it.
It's almost impossible to reach someone in a cult through reason. Just try to love your dad; he's still locked inside there somewhere. Love him as you would if he had Alzheimer's or some other mental illness. Sometimes love can accomplish what logic alone cannot.
Amelia
My name is Amelia Gonzalez, I am now 16 .Being a witness for 13 years . I never realized how much Jehovah witnesses minds were poisoned . I would love to share my story, especially coming from someone as young as me . When i was younger I use to be so jealous of other kids of the fact how they got to celebrate birthdays, christmas and easter. I could never understand why I couldnt be normal like any other kid, i wasnt aloud to watch movies or tv shows that had magic in it because they thought magic was the devils work. i even remember that i wasnt aloud to play with or have over any kids that werent in that religion .
April 22nd 2007 was the divorce of my parents, who both grew up in the religion, my sister and I both were forced to be brought up as ones to. After my mum left the religion they all took pity on her and thought she was some sort of monster just because she had left my dad, her older brother and her dad have nothing to do with her since she left. It still makes me sick to think how heartless they could be, just because it didnt add up to their expectations of a Jehovah witness. When the divorced papers carried through my dad wanted my sister and i to make the decision to either be with our mum or him, being kids we couldnt make that decision we loved out parents both so much. Finally it came to agreement that we would spend one week at a time at each of parents houses, when the week rolled by to go spend at dads my sister and i never would never look forward to it.
Dad remained serving as a jehovah witness so we were forced to go to the meetings, my sister and i tried to tell him many times that we didnt want to go but he would make us feel so bad by giving us a whole lecture on how it would make god unhappy and him aswell, he would tell us we would live in 'Paradise Earth' if we served him. But really i never believed in such a thing and still never do.
As my sister and i got older we started to have our own say about how we thought of the religion and how we didnt believe in such a god we could see how badly our dads mind had been poisoned with such nonsense . I still remember the night my dad walked out of my sisters dance concert she had worked so hard on for a whole year, the dance concert was called 'Carn(evil)' but he didnt know it would have creepy zombie clowns,music of people screaming and my sister and her dance group dressed as zombie puppets the whole effect was for people to be on there edge of there seats with thrill and excitement. But my dad being a jehovah witness walked straight out before my sister came out on stage, he thought it was demonic and god wouldnt be happy if he sat there a carried out through the whole show. My sister was so upset when she found out and didnt talk to him for months.
My story of my father and his ways still upset me, even with arguments that are irrelevant to the religion he still reflects it back to it which makes me so angry and frustrated. I can still never get through to him because he stands so strongly on what he believes in and to be honest i think ive lost him all together, so yes Jehovah witnesses do rip apart families .
Angela
This article touched my heart. I grew up with a mother who was a Jehovah's Witness and a father who was a holiness pastor. I hated being a Jehovah's witness because it seperated me from my friends and family. I believe the kingdom hall is what messed Micheal Jackson up. Having to constantly worry about when the "NEW SYSTEM" of things was to come about. I suffer from depression and anxiety....and do you know why? Because of that kingdom hall!!!
Eniye Deborah
JEHOVAH'S People are a set of organized people who follow Bible standard. And are organized to do Jehovah' will be it thoughtless words or non Biblical sayings form critics. So the earlier you begin to eliminate this slanderous thought the better for whoever wants to inherit God's Messianic kingdom. Our main aim is to advertise the kingdom and teach from the ultimate source of truth the Bible.
Thank You.
Andrew
@Eniye: *sigh* No no no! You can't just say we write thoughtless words or slanderous thoughts without providing evidence!
And don't fool yourself. You don't follow the bible. You follow the Watchtower interpretation of the bible. The bible itself is full of immoral teachings anyway! And did you even read the post? Jehovah's Witness teachings destroy families.










Sorry, the browser you are using is not currently supported. Disqus actively supports the following browsers:
FirefoxChromeInternet Explorer 8+Safari
This page is forcing your browser to use legacy mode, which is not compatible with Disqus. Please see our troubleshooting guide to get more information about this error.
We were unable to load Disqus. If you are a moderator please see our troubleshooting guide.
Gail
was in my heart and that I didn't want to pretend I bveileed something that I don't. My long time friends stopped associating with me and my fam threatened to disown me. It hurt...but I don't hold them responsible. Hell, in years gone by I have done the same to others who defected from the "truth". It's what we have been taught to do! As for the "brothers" I haven't told them a thing and don't plan to. I just stopped going to the kh. It is NONE of their business what I do and don't believe!Jodi












Sorry, the browser you are using is not currently supported. Disqus actively supports the following browsers:
FirefoxChromeInternet Explorer 8+Safari
This page is forcing your browser to use legacy mode, which is not compatible with Disqus. Please see our troubleshooting guide to get more information about this error.
We were unable to load Disqus. If you are a moderator please see our troubleshooting guide.
Sneha
Food means the understanding of the segmase of PEACE.The Bible is for peace and everlasting life. But the society promotes division. Sending out contentions as JWs understand is communicating Bible in a different way than JWs do it. But it is the JW who send out "contentions among brothers" because I have seen there are those who are not JW but they preach Jesus. Nobody is right. Jesus suffers because we calling ourselves Christians are not coming to agreement. The Watchtower will, I'm sure "implode" but they will surely take the "world" with them. "What is decided on is desolation" (Daniel 9:26.










Sorry, the browser you are using is not currently supported. Disqus actively supports the following browsers:
FirefoxChromeInternet Explorer 8+Safari
This page is forcing your browser to use legacy mode, which is not compatible with Disqus. Please see our troubleshooting guide to get more information about this error.
We were unable to load Disqus. If you are a moderator please see our troubleshooting guide.
Aman
The Bible is the written word of God. I peerfr the King James Version. It is the living word, and will open truths to those who really want to find the truth. Anyone that tells you that studying the Bible is not good, is a liar, and should be avoided at all costs as it sounds like you are young and impressionable. You get your Bible and read and study it as much as you can, then hide the words away in your heart, and the Holy Spirit will bring His words to your remembrance when you need them. Study to show thyself approved, rightly dividing the word of truth.
Ben
@Aman "The Bible is the word of God." Prove it. I personally get tired of comments like yours extolling the virtues of the bible and running down non-believers without presenting any evidence to support your position.
Regards,
Ben












Sorry, the browser you are using is not currently supported. Disqus actively supports the following browsers:
FirefoxChromeInternet Explorer 8+Safari
This page is forcing your browser to use legacy mode, which is not compatible with Disqus. Please see our troubleshooting guide to get more information about this error.
We were unable to load Disqus. If you are a moderator please see our troubleshooting guide.
twizzlr
My story is one where my brother was allowed to kick me out of his house and shun me from association even at the Hall for my talking to a "non-believer". Apparently I was "secretly" dating this guy through text messages even though my brother knew about him from the day I met him. I was "repentant" in that I changed my number and employment to get away from the guy that I loved. I did it before I got kicked out too. Nothing was ever said to my brother, his wife, her family or any of the other members who shunned me even though I was "repentant" to quote the elders. After 8 months of doing my best while it got worse and worse, I met someone else, someone who treated me good. I told the elders I was going to have a problem with him. I was met with, at my insistence, a few times where they quoted me scriptures that we all know by heart and that were obviously not doing any good. I gave up. I slept with my boyfriend, but have since realized it was an excuse to be able to get out. It's easier this way on my parents.












Sorry, the browser you are using is not currently supported. Disqus actively supports the following browsers:
FirefoxChromeInternet Explorer 8+Safari
This page is forcing your browser to use legacy mode, which is not compatible with Disqus. Please see our troubleshooting guide to get more information about this error.
We were unable to load Disqus. If you are a moderator please see our troubleshooting guide.
Ben
No, that picture isn't of me... Teeny thought it was funny.












Sorry, the browser you are using is not currently supported. Disqus actively supports the following browsers:
FirefoxChromeInternet Explorer 8+Safari
This page is forcing your browser to use legacy mode, which is not compatible with Disqus. Please see our troubleshooting guide to get more information about this error.
We were unable to load Disqus. If you are a moderator please see our troubleshooting guide.
Omar Hiseinberg
Jesus died on whatever we want him to have died on, since he is strictly a figment of the collective human imagination.
Adrian Rainbow.
Neither!
Shane
Adrian, what do you mean neither? Do you think that Jesus was not killed on a stake or a cross? Why? If not, where was he killed in your view. Personally, I don't even know if this Jesus person existed. Just curious at your answer.
Teeny
Agreed, but don't tell anyone I said that...
John
Do those involved with this cult even realize that their fever to debate and always be right is hiding a mental flaw of them to begin with? Low self esteem etc etc. And at any cost to human life and severed family relationships. They only see what they want to see and ignore the rest of any factual evidence. And when they are backed into the corner they say " we will have to get back to you on that after we do some further research" After all we are just pre-programed messengers and as they say don't shoot the messenger. You really need to speak to the head honchos as their the ones who write this stuff and to be honest we really don't understand it because their the annointed ones. ok sorry i got off track here lol. But seriously what difference does it really make anyway if it was a straight poll or cross anyway? Well you can see they love to try and sweat the small details but miss the big picture. Actually what their really trying to do is single themselves out in relation to any other religion by twisting and turning scriptures to make them appear right and exclusive or unique.
Quote miner
The irony is how you quote mine in your blogs. Oh dear! Hypocrite.
Teeny
Thanks for your comment. Now do the right thing and let me know where I have copied the Watchtower's strategy.
Karen Milton
John 20:25 states that Thomas doubted it was Jesus and said: “Unless I see the nail marks in his hands and put my finger where the nails were, and put my hand into his side, I will not believe.”
The cross rather than JW stake better emulates this statement as Thomas says "NAIL MARKS"(plural) not "NAIL MARK" (singular). WTBTS documents Jesus on the stake with one (1) nail. But the said bible JWs follow shows in this scripture verse that it was more than one nail mark......You should mention this to your mom.
Richard Schiller
I dont think quote-mining should be labeled as wholly bad nor wholly good. Out of context means out from surrounding text, or out of intended thought? If Adam was created at the end of the 6th day, the context around it is of 6 days, of creation, or levels in purpose as it is laid in succession. BUT to merely quote the Adam 6th day words is not an error. Ever hear of over-quoting so you dont see the point being made. Those words alone cqan be used many ways and still be true. It could be to teach people 5 days existed before Adam. It could be used to teach Adam was the end of that day not the start or middle of it. It could be used to say Adam was created not the Neanderthal. All are true, because though out of the middle of context, they do fit the whole text scenerio. Now just because all this fits true to the text scenerio, doesnt mean Moses wrote it to tell you there was no evolution or Neanderthal. Just because it all fits as one story doesnt mean the intent of Moses is to demand these spans as 24 hours. Jesus is an example when he says the Son of Man (he) will be the first to heaven. If you know all religions you will know that is what a christ is, (And I mean origins, not modern beleive what you want encyclopedias.) in all religions the christ is their person they claim was first to heaven, including Mohammed, in which Moslems say Jesus was not in heaven the year he died.
So what you do not cover in this claim to quote-mine is this. There is no error, it is saying single stake was the origin. So the question you fail in your attack which makes you equally a quote miner of purple highlights, is this, when did the cross-stake begin. It says as the Romans took Greek lands, but that does not clearly prove it, that is vague. Now listen up, I am a witness of my God Jehovah and that is by true definition, not by world definition, nor Organisation definition. Next i will say truly Jesus was conceived on the cross or crossing, and he was born on the cross, and he was presented 40 days later on the cross, he was anointed by 3 Magi on the cross, he was baptized on the cross, and even stated during the crossing, i am the true morning star, before he held Passover on the cross, and died on the cross, and was raised to heaven on the cross the 1st day as well as the cross on the 40th day. You can argue with other churches or anyone what your cross is, but the fact remains the most common cross in all religious existence are dates of crossing in which people presumed certain ones should be king or priest or calimed in heaven or worshipped as their Leader, etc. That is why the cross is worshipped everywhere but so blind to actual value that it refers to being able to see and predict any day and hour, as Shem Melchizidek did, told it to Abram, was called an angel of Jehovah, and was also called JEHOVAH for knowing this and being right, and then Sodom as predicted exploded at sunrise (198bc July 18). How do readers benefit from what i just said... they can all die in one boat pointing at each other, or even killing the Christ bride when Judas pokes you to do so, or they can see that the Christ bride is not at fault for how Judas (or even Peter that night of crossing) keeps stirring up mind-control or demands of obedience to the Christ bride, etc. The legal departments are Judas not the Christ bride. You will kill the Christ (bride) again because of what non-elite non-anointed have done in her name. I do not fear what either side thinks of me, the world, or fake JWs, because i see truth, and it blesses me to see it. Little Christendom is said by the WT to be a whore, as she points out that Big Mother Christendom the whore celebrates Christmas as the birth or death of Nimrod. Google it, it comes up at Xang, and at Gilead, and at Plain Truth. BUT truly it tell you that the Christmas dates Kayak 24, Mesore 24, Thoth 24, December 24 all pinpoint one death, it is the death of Noah not NImrod, and the rising Venus of that date occurs 251 years apart for the death of his son Shem (Shem-Ramis means Shem honored) as 2370bc Gregorian Dec 17 to 1868bc Dec 17 starting from its equal Julian January 6 Venus Epiphany (to January 2). Apply Shem-Ramis as Semiramis to Noah's death, and you get Nimrod's death in 251 years and then 502 years to king Ninus who is a 600-year Venus half-cycle from Shem's death. Remember if you call Nimrod the father of Assyria for building Nineveh, that it is Shem who is their father (father of Asshur). Noah's Dec 25 Venus Semiramis (G.Dec 8) is Dec 23 for Nimrod (G.Dec 8) two days before the Christmas Noah, and for NInus another 4 days as Dec 19 =G.Dec 8) . THUS XMAS IS A NOAH AND SHEM HOLIDAY NOT A NIMROD HOLIDAY which means in the heavenly court for or against Jehovah or Satan the seated witness known as Watchtowerdom is advocating Little Christendom lies that Satan himself laughs at is being published. I find this greater disgust, than the United Nations mistake because this mistake has been 100 years, and times 10 isnt going to get man to perfection.
ELIJAH
Shane
OMG! They totally misquoted the information in that book! They deliberately left out important facts and only printed what would support their beliefs. Fraudsters!
Razor Swift
Yes, Jesus carried the patibulum to his grave site, not the upright stake part. I wish JW's could use simple logic (and understand the history) on this.
johnny
This is what i think....the society knows that Jerusalem was destroyed in 587bce they know that Jesus died on the cross. For them to admit that Jerusalem was destroyed in 587bce and that Jesus died on the cross millions of jws will leave the organisation.
ohh my god....that means no more nice apartments no more nice cars no more travel benefits no more Govening Body ..wow
Andrew
@Johnny - There is a section in the book "Crisis of Conscience" by Raymond Franz, former Governing Body member, that reveals that the Governing Body does indeed know that there is no evidence whatsoever for the 607 date, but they ignore it.
Akuseru
my mother use to be JW and i study Bible since long time, but thew some reading in found some incoherence :http://www.jwfacts.com/watchto...













Sorry, the browser you are using is not currently supported. Disqus actively supports the following browsers:
FirefoxChromeInternet Explorer 8+Safari
This page is forcing your browser to use legacy mode, which is not compatible with Disqus. Please see our troubleshooting guide to get more information about this error.
We were unable to load Disqus. If you are a moderator please see our troubleshooting guide.
Etta
As an ex JW of 30 years, I always found it odd that we could not celebrate birthdays but boy, we sure could give baby showers! Hello! Isn't that celebrating a birthday.













Sorry, the browser you are using is not currently supported. Disqus actively supports the following browsers:
FirefoxChromeInternet Explorer 8+Safari
This page is forcing your browser to use legacy mode, which is not compatible with Disqus. Please see our troubleshooting guide to get more information about this error.
We were unable to load Disqus. If you are a moderator please see our troubleshooting guide.
Dan Harris
I'm certainly not a Jehovah's Witness, and I'm not even that stupid!!! Let me quote something to you.
Dr. Steven Meyer, earned a PhD in biology from University of Cambridge. He states, "Serious origins-of-life biologists did not believe that life had arisen by mere chance alone. Instead, they envisioned natural selection acting on random variations among chemicals to produce the first life. But there was a problem with this proposal.
By definition, natural selection could not have functioned before the existence of the first living cell. For it can only act on organisms capable of replicating themselves, cells equipped with DNA capable of passing on their genetic changes to future.generations.
* Without DNA, there is not self-replication;
* Without self-replication,, there is no mutation;
* And without mutation, there is no natural selection.
So you can't use natural selection to explain the origin of DNA without assuming the existence of the very thing you are trying to explain."
Andrew
@Dan - Thanks for the comment, though I'm not sure if you're insulting me (for no reason) when you say "stupid". Who said evolution explains the origins of life? It does not. Evolution simply explains the diversity of life. Evolution explains what happened after the basic components of cells, or DNA, or whatever, existed. Evolution is absolutely the best explanation we have, backed up with evidence, to explain diversity and how simple cells could become seemingly very complex.
The study of how they got there in the first place is called "Abiogenesis" which is a completely different field of science. Scientists are working towards hopefully one day being able to explain how everything got here in the first place. I am no physicist, but I hear they are getting quite close to an answer.
So I do agree with Meyer that natural selection could not have functioned without the first living cell (or at least basic components of a cell) - that doesn't disprove evolution at all because that is not what evolution explains, just as the theory of gravity is not used to explain the origins of life. I find that many people do generally misunderstand what evolution is but the fact is that most people who seriously look into the evidence for evolution usually find it extremely difficult not to accept it as the best explanation we have for life's diversity. As much as religionists have a problem with evolution, it isn't really up for debate any more as to whether it is true or not. We know it is, based on all the masses of evidence.












Sorry, the browser you are using is not currently supported. Disqus actively supports the following browsers:
FirefoxChromeInternet Explorer 8+Safari
This page is forcing your browser to use legacy mode, which is not compatible with Disqus. Please see our troubleshooting guide to get more information about this error.
We were unable to load Disqus. If you are a moderator please see our troubleshooting guide.
Belle
Why was there a sword in the garden of eden? Adam and eve were the only people who existed and swords had not been invented, yet the cherubs had them. Does that mean god or angels invented swords? Why would they have been used to keep Adam and Eve out of the garden? The symbolism would have been lost on them.
Andres Torres
And why is Adam told that "by the sweat of your brow you will eat bread" when he was kicked out of the garden? He took all his food from the trees of the garden so he never needed to invent the process of making bread. Growing wheat, harvesting it, grinding it up, mixing it with other ingredients and baking it into bread -that's a lot of work to be doing considering he got all the food he wanted for free. So it seems he didn't know what bread was, and this statement from God was meaningless to him.
smmcroberts
Good points Belle and Andres!
According to Wikipedia bread was invented about 30,000 years ago. That means that for 85% of modern humankind's existence we didn't know what bread was. So the "first man" wouldn't have had a clue what God was talking about, and God's prophecy about him eating it was false.
But then, of course, having the "first man" created 6,000 years ago throws reality out the window from the get-go.
Martin
Genesis chapter 3, verse 22.
“And Jehovah God went on to say: “Here the man has become like one of us in knowing good and bad, and now in order that he may not put his hand out and actually take [fruit] also from the tree of life and eat and live to time indefinite.”
--------
So Man (and presumably spare-rib-afterthought Woman) didn't know good from bad BEFORE eating from the tree of knowledge?
Why punish them for it then, at all, let alone so severely? Eve didn't know that what she was doing was BAD .... she had no understanding of the concept of BAD at that time, according to the Bible.
What nomal 'father' would punish his child for making a mistake born of ignorance not malice? If that is Jehovah's standard of compassionate parenting then he can keep it.
Honestly if you can get out of the book of Genesis and still be a believer in all this superstitious claptrap, you seriously need a critical faculties test.
Teeny
You sir, are my hero!
If you can read past Genesis chapter 6, you deserve religion...
Reader
Satan said -1-if you eat you will not die
-2- you will be like God
Two false statements of the same tree.
Jehovah was being sarcastic. simple.
B
one tree, differs by viewpoint.
Shabba
Sorry to bump an old thread but... "7 million JWs cant be wrong.." so what about the 230 Million Christians?.. are they wrong?? or the however many million Muslims?.. sorry but if your playing numbers then the JWs are below the moonies or the Jedi.
I have studied the Org at great detail and to me the quote from Orwell's 1984 applies perfectly. It was in reference to a future under compete party control.. substitute party for Org and its perfect:
"If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face — forever"
I'm a Christian but a pragmatic logical one.. I accept evolution and science (I'm a geneticist).. U know Gregor Mendel (the father of genetics) was a Roman Catholic priest.. He could also see that religion and science are cool together if your not an idiot ;-)
AGuest
My apologies - I should have posted that the trees were "real", not that they were "literal" (the latter isn't quite accurate).
Peace!
AGuest
Please forgive the intrusion (peace to you all!), but I think that if you understood what the "garden" and "Trees" were/are, and what Adham/Eve were and were not, you might have a different take on some of your understandings. Not saying you would become a "believer", but that perhaps the accuracy would cause you to have posted different comments. Because it really isn't as you describe it.
Both "trees" were literal. One... the Tree of Life... was... and IS... is a person, actually. Let me show you. The garden and tree, first:
"[Jehovah] God planted a garden in E′den, toward the east, and there he put the man whom he had formed. Thus [Jehovah] God made to grow out of the ground every tree desirable to one’s sight and good for food and also the tree of life in the middle of the garden and the tree of the knowledge of good and bad." Genesis 2:8, 9
Now... one of the trees:
"And it must occur in that day that there will be the root of Jes′se that will be standing up as a signal for the peoples. To him even the nations will turn inquiringly, and his resting‐place must become glorious." Isaiah 11:10
"‘Hear, please, O Joshua the high priest, you and your companions who are sitting before you, for they are men [serving] as portents; for here I am bringing in my servant Sprout!'" Zechariah 3:8
"I am the way, the TRUTH, and the LIFE"... John 14:6
“I am the true vine, and my Father is the cultivator. Every branch in me not bearing fruit he takes away, and every one bearing fruit he cleans, that it may bear more fruit. ... I am the vine, ​YOU​ are the branches." John 15:1, 5
"And he showed me a river of water of life, clear as crystal, flowing out from the throne of God and of the Lamb down the middle of its broad way. And on this side of the river and on that side the TREE OF LIFE producing twelve crops of fruit, yielding their fruits each month. And the leaves of the TREE for the curing of the nations." Revelation 22:1, 2 (Note: The NWT normally states... and the WTBTS erroneously teaches... that there are "trees", plural, and that they represent the 144,000". Without going into the lie that this even refers to the 144,000 I will only state that this rendition AND its teaching is false - there is only ONE "tree" of life. Thankfully, they had the wherewithall to support that truth - and thus, negate their lie - in the footnote for the verse in the NWT Reference Bible).
To further help those who want to know the truth about this matter understand how and why Christ is that "Tree", I offer his words, as recorded at John 6:48-58 (please note verses 50, 51, 54, and 58):
"'I am the bread of life. YOUR​ forefathers ate the manna in the wilderness and yet died. This is the bread that comes down from heaven, so that anyone may eat of it and not die. I am the living bread that came down from heaven; if anyone eats of this bread he will live forever; and, for a fact, the bread that I shall give is my flesh in behalf of the life of the world.'”
"Therefore the Jews began contending with one another, saying: 'How can this man give us his flesh to eat?' Accordingly [Jesus] said to them: 'Most truly I say to ​YOU, Unless ​YOU​ eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, ​YOU​ have no life in yourselves. He that feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has everlasting life, and I shall resurrect him at the last day; for my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. He that feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood remains in union with me, and I in union with him.Just as the living Father sent me forth and I live because of the Father, he also that feeds on me, even that one will live because of me. This is the bread that came down from heaven. It is not as when ​YOUR​ forefathers ate and yet died. He that feeds on this bread will live forever.'"
Christ is the Tree of Life: the TRUE Vine... the ROOT of Jesse... SPROUT! His flesh is the "leaves" that "cure" the nations. Anyone who EATS of HIM, the Tree [of Life]... will live forever. That really is the only way - there is no other.
By its teachings that only small group of individuals can/should "partake" of Christ's flesh and blood the WTBTS is, in essence, "shutting up the kingdom of the heavens before men." Since THEY do not go in/are not going in... they are making it so others also don't/won't go in... by convincing them that it is absolutely okay to "reject" the very means by which such ones can attain [everlasting] life: by eating from the Tree OF Life. (Matthew 23:13)
As for the other Tree, that was NOT a tree that allowed Adham/Eve to know good FROM bad, or good VERSUS evil. It was a Tree that they were told would allow them to KNOW... good... AND bad. The knowledge of good... AND bad. Not good FROM bad/good VERSUS bad.
What does this mean, the knowledge of good AND bad? It was a tree that allowed them to know good... LIFE... AND bad... DEATH. Good = life. Bad = death. Prior to eating, they only knew good. Life. The Adversary told Eve that if she ate she would be "life God"... knowing good... AND bad. Meaning... she could know good (life) and bad (death) and yet LIVE. LIKE God (over whom death has no hold).
Eve believed this... that she COULD know (i.e., have personal knowledge of) good... life... and bad... death... and yet live. That she would "NOT die." So... she ate. When Adham saw that she had eaten and NOT died (as of that time)... he, too, ate. She was deceived into doing so because of the lie told to her (that she would not die); he chose to eat because he thought that although she'd eaten she really wasn't going to die. She was wrong; so was he.
Adham's "sin," however, wasn't so much that he disobeyed and ate - that was not blasphemy and so could have been forgiven. His SIN... was that, rather than give HIS life in exchange for Eve's, after HER error, which he could have done because he was still "perfect" and so his life COULD have atoned for hers... he sold her out, her and their seed. In exchange for the RIGHT to live forever, he made a "deal" with Death (well, Death's agent, the Adversary). His progeny for the "key" so that Death would not hold HIM. In doing so, he sold his wife... and his progeny... to sin and death.
Unlike Christ... who GAVE his life... for his wife/children: the Bride, New Jerusalem, and the "children of Light" (John 1:3, 5; 8:12). In contrast to Adham, he showed that he had "no greater love"... than to give HIS life on behalf of [his friends], his "best" friend being his "bride." Adham, on the other hand, showed that he would not only put his own life first, but above those he was SUPPOSED to love: his bride and their children.
Now, I realize you've never heard these things before but that's because those you've learned what you have from don't know it. Because they are not who they say they are - "anointed". To the contrary, they are "false christs" and "false prophets" (Matthew 24:24), whose very purpose is the "mislead the even the chosen ones, if possible." And they have misled you dear folks here, as is evident by your perception of the garden and trees. They are imposters, claiming to know... and worse, claiming to know by holy spirit. That is a lie! They possess no such spirit for it they did... they COULDN'T lie... and they lie all the time.
So, please... consider letting go of ALL that they have taught you... and start over, completely. One way to get an accurate understanding of what IS the truth is to go TO the Truth, Christ (John 14:6). That One even stated:
"'YOU​ are searching the Scriptures, because ​YOU​ think that by means of them ​YOU​ will have everlasting life; and these are the very ones that bear witness about me. And yet ​YOU​ do not want to come to me that ​YOU​ may have life.'"
Seriously. If you are interested in learning the truth about these things, then I exhort you to go TO the Truth... and to no one else. Now, don't get me wrong: I did not post this to convert anyone. It is not up to me who gets called... or who hears the call. I posted it because the comments by some as to what the trees were... and whether they were real or not... are erroneous. Given that, I thought perhaps if someone WANTED to know the truth, the least I could do was share it. What ones choose to DO with/about it is entirely up to them... and God.
Peace to you!
A slave of Christ,
SA
P.S. The "garden" was/is not a physical place; it is a spiritual place. Adham/Eve were created in the physical realm and taken from that INTO the spirit realm (garden). This could be done because, like Christ, they were half-breeds: bodies of physical flesh but spirit (life force/blood) from God. By means of that blood (GOD's blood - holy spirit), they could "go in and out" between the spirit and physical realms. As Christ did when he transfigured. Once they were given "long garments of skin", however (and this was NOT animal skin but a body with hemoglobin as its blood, vs. holy spirit)... they could no longer transfigure. Flesh... with ITS blood... cannot enter into the kingdom (spirit realm). It is only flesh with God's blood... holy spirit... that can transfigure/transcend... so as to enter into the spirit realm/kingdom of God. I hope this helps and, again, peace to you!
Andrew
And how do you know all this? How do you have a source of information and interpretation that we don't? You've told us what you believe, but just like all believers, assert your beliefs with no evidence at all that they are accurate, and without any sound reason for your particular version of the myth.
cw
Wow, this is my first time on this website. I used to be one of Jehovah's Witnesses. I quit for my own reasons.
Why are people getting so worked up over this? Certain people that have commented here that claim to be Jehovah's witnesses do not post in a very respectable manner. About half of my family are still JW's, the other half decided it's not for them for various reasons. We all live happy lives and of the two groups, our actions and beliefs don't hurt anyone. SO live your lives, relax. We are allowed to have and have the human right to, differing points of view, and differing beliefs.
FutureMan
Andrew, the truth is that an intelligent Creator does exist, we can not get around that fact.
But how creation has come about via the creator is another issue entirely.
Secular Science today as described through evolution, does not rule out the existence of a creator.
Quite the contrary really as it shows a very complex mechanism that has being put in place to evolve all life in our universe.
A programming that is far beyond our comprehension and yet it exists in every cell that makes up part of our bodies.
Scientists, the geneticists, can rely on this complex programming that exists in our genetic code to map out our DNA and so on.
Scientist can rely on the laws of our universe to send a spacecraft to the moon and beyond that to mars and so on.
This is not a haphazard universe even though it does have chaotic events happen within it.
The universe is seemingly chaotic yet there is an order to it that holds it all together as it expands and contracts.
Stars supernova in a blinding flash of light, yet out of the remnants of these once magnificent stars, comes a genesis of a new creation of stellar objects.
One day our sun too, will supernova, but we will be ready when it does if we are still living on the earth as humans at that time period.
Everything in this universe changes or transforms into something else.
Humans one day too will have to transform as a race into a higher form of life.
But in the mean time as one by one we finish our earthly destinies, we move on to the next level of life in a different form.
Not spirit, but a more durable body that is more energy efficient and that is not prone to the sickness and illness that is so prevalent on this planet today.
May our Creator bless you all in your endeavors to find the real truth that is out there.
May you all progress to perfection and spiritual maturity that brings us much closer to God himself as approved children of his.
Andrew
No FutureMan you have not presented any real evidence whatsoever. It isn't a fact at all. It's just your opinion. You're done.
FutureMan
Even though this universe is made up of matter and energy, it is also made up of spirit.
"God is a Spirit".
So therefore you must investigate the evidence from a spiritual vantage point.
Science as we understand today through scientists, who themselves are floundering in intellectual darkness as proven by the variety of theories and explanations that they come up with, only later to be disproved by a more progressive scientist and so on it goes.
God is not something that we can tangibly prove by physical evidence, but we can see his existence through the formation of things and through our own intelligence for what that is worth.
Animals do not testify to God's existence, but we do because we are made in his Image, via advanced beings.
This planet as I understand was seeded with life and it evolved from there.
But yes as you say, I'm done as you wish.
FutureMan
To Ste Ríkharðsson
You stated this :
"Cause and effect is a change in time or in space. Time and space only exist *within* our universe so all effects *within* our universe must have a cause.
“Outside” the universe however there is neither time nor space so there is no cause and effect. Nothing can “cause” something which does not have a time-line, the universe doesn’t have a time-line, the universe just is. The universe has “always” existed in the sense that time is a *part* of the universe, not something that the universe exists in. There was never a “time” when the universe didn’t exist."
Ok, that is a fair enough statement.
So our universe has always existed in one form or another.
But what about life? Awareness? Consciousness?
Where did we receive this?
Life is not something that can just appear out of thin air, or out of space, can it?
Therefore intelligent life and must have always existed, in one form or another.
That is what I call God, the cause and the source, and origin of all things.
God is life and the light of all life in this universe.
This is what the apostle John had to say about this as is written in the gospel of John of the Bible.
John 1
1 ¶ In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 He was in the beginning with God.
3 All things came into being through Him, and without Him not even one thing came into being that has come into being.
4 In Him was life, and the life was the light of men; [LITV]
This is what the Urantia papers have to say about this.
Paper 1
The Universal Father *
(21.1) 1:0.1 THE Universal Father is the God of all creation, the First Source and Center of all things and beings. First think of God as a creator, then as a controller, and lastly as an infinite upholder. The truth about the Universal Father had begun to dawn upon mankind when the prophet said: “You, God, are alone; there is none beside you. You have created the heaven and the heaven of heavens, with all their hosts; you preserve and control them. By the Sons of God were the universes made. The Creator covers himself with light as with a garment and stretches out the heavens as a curtain.” Only the concept of the Universal Father — one God in the place of many gods — enabled mortal man to comprehend the Father as divine creator and infinite controller.
(21.2) 1:0.2 The myriads of planetary systems were all made to be eventually inhabited by many different types of intelligent creatures, beings who could know God, receive the divine affection, and love him in return. The universe of universes is the work of God and the dwelling place of his diverse creatures. “God created the heavens and formed the earth; he established the universe and created this world not in vain; he formed it to be inhabited.”
(21.3) 1:0.3 The enlightened worlds all recognize and worship the Universal Father, the eternal maker and infinite upholder of all creation. The will creatures of universe upon universe have embarked upon the long, long Paradise journey, the fascinating struggle of the eternal adventure of attaining God the Father. The transcendent goal of the children of time is to find the eternal God, to comprehend the divine nature, to recognize the Universal Father. God-knowing creatures have only one supreme ambition, just one consuming desire, and that is to become, as they are in their spheres, like him as he is in his Paradise perfection of personality and in his universal sphere of righteous supremacy. From the Universal Father who inhabits eternity there has gone forth the supreme mandate, “Be you perfect, even as I am perfect.” In love and mercy the messengers of Paradise have carried this divine exhortation down through the ages and out through the universes, even to such lowly animal-origin creatures as the human races of Urantia.
P404:5, 36:6.7 There are some things connected with the elaboration of life on the evolutionary planets which are not altogether clear to us. We fully comprehend the physical organization of the electrochemical formulas of the Life Carriers, but we do not wholly understand the nature and source of the life-activation spark. We know that life flows from the Father through the Son and by the Spirit. It is more than possible that the Master Spirits are the sevenfold channel of the river of life which is poured out upon all creation. But we do not comprehend the technique whereby the supervising Master Spirit participates in the initial episode of life bestowal on a new planet. The Ancients of Days, we are confident, also have some part in this inauguration of life on a new world, but we are wholly ignorant of the nature thereof. We do know that the Universe Mother Spirit actually vitalizes the lifeless patterns and imparts to such activated plasm the prerogatives of organismal reproduction. We observe that these three are the levels of God the Sevenfold, sometimes designated as the Supreme Creators of time and space; but otherwise we know little more than Urantia mortals -- simply that concept is inherent in the Father, expression in the Son, and life realization in the Spirit."

This is what the entity who called themselves the RA Collective have to say about God:
13.5 Questioner: Thank you. Can you tell me of the first known thing in the creation?
Ra: I am Ra. The first known thing in the creation is infinity. The infinity is creation.
13.6 Questioner: From this infinity then must come what we experience as creation. What was the next step or the next evolvement?
Ra: I am Ra. Infinity became aware. This was the next step.
13.7 Questioner: After this, what came next?
Ra: Awareness led to the focus of infinity into infinite energy. You have called this by various vibrational sound complexes, the most common to your ears being “Logos” or “Love.” The Creator is the focusing of infinity as an aware or conscious principle called by us as closely as we can create understanding/learning in your language, intelligent infinity.
13.8 Questioner: Can you state the next step?
Ra: The next step is still at this space/time nexus in your illusion achieving its progression as you may see it in your illusion. The next step is an infinite reaction to the creative principle following the Law of One in one of its primal distortions, freedom of will. Thus many, many dimensions, infinite in number, are possible. The energy moves from the intelligent infinity due first to the outpouring of randomized creative force, this then creating patterns which in holographic style appear as the entire creation no matter which direction or energy is explored. These patterns of energy begin then to regularize their own local, shall we say, rhythms and fields of energy, thus creating dimensions and universes.
13.12 Questioner: Can you tell me how intelligent infinity became, shall we say (I’m having difficulty with the language), how intelligent infinity became individualized from itself?
Ra: I am Ra. This is an appropriate question.
The intelligent infinity discerned a concept. This concept was discerned due to freedom of will of awareness. This concept was finity. This was the first and primal paradox or distortion of the Law of One. Thus the one intelligent infinity invested itself in an exploration of many-ness. Due to the infinite possibilities of intelligent infinity there is no ending to many-ness. The exploration, thus, is free to continue infinitely in an eternal present.
13.13 Questioner: Was the galaxy that we are in created by the infinite intelligence or was it created by a portion of the infinite intelligence?
Ra: I am Ra. The galaxy and all other things of material of which you are aware are products of individualized portions of intelligent infinity. As each exploration began, it, in turn, found its focus and became co-Creator. Using intelligent infinity each portion created an universe and allowing the rhythms of free choice to flow, playing with the infinite spectrum of possibilities, each individualized portion channeled the love/light into what you might call intelligent energy, thus creating the so-called Natural Laws of any particular universe.
As you can see, slightly different vantage points, but all alluding to an intelligent Creator.
The Urantia papers were delivered by entities who were very much aware of the Creator, however we might view these entities.
Same goes for those who channeled information through the research paranormal group and called themselves Ra.
These entities are real, and they testify themselves to the existence of an intelligent Creator..
We might not understand exactly who they are, but they are very much part of the reality of the fabric of this universe.
Andrew
Urantia papers... Ste, I wouldn't waste your time on this anymore if I were you.
Ste Ríkharðsson
Try reading Genesis 2 and 3 in a completely unbiased way, without rose-tinted glasses, without prior knowledge of the text and without fancy explanations or excuses for the text. Read the entire two chapters in context, not just picking out verses. You will clearly see something quite surprising.
GOD says: "In the DAY you eat from it you will positively DIE". Gen.2:17
The SNAKE says: "You positively will NOT die, for God KNOWS that in the very day of your eating from it your eyes are bound to be OPENED and you are bound to be LIKE GOD knowing good and bad". Gen.3:4-5
"Then the eyes of both of them became OPENED and they began to realized that they were naked". Gen.3:7
GOD then later says “Here the man has become LIKE ONE OF US in knowing good and bad". Gen.3:22
Later in chapter 5, Genesis reports: "So all the days of Adam that he lived amounted to NINE HUNDRED AND THIRTY YEARS and he died". Gen.5:4
Who actually was lying?
Mark
Hi Teeny,
I too am an ex-JW. I left about 6 years ago and officially disassociated myself in November of 2009. Unfortunately, my wife of 25 years remains a devout JW. But in spite of that we get along great even though she doesn’t have any kind of biblical conversation with me. See avoids spiritual discussion with me at almost any cost.
Anyway, I really enjoyed reading this article. However, there are just a couple of statements I’d like to kindly address. Let me begin by saying that since leaving the JW’s I’ve been digging deeper into the Bible than ever before and I‘m still a Christian. It’s amazing how things make much more sense to me without looking through the “Watchtower lenses.” Just recently I’ve been studying this account you’re speaking of in depth. But, needles to say, I can still learn from others whether believers (in God) or not. I respect your opinions and ask that you not be offended or defensive about the things I’m about to say. Perhaps we can learn from each other and in some cases we may have agree to disagree. I’m more than willing to do this while still respecting your stand.
That being said, I agree with you when you said the following, “The trees were not symbolic,” “Jehovah God made Adam and Eve perfect, but their perfection didn’t merit living forever.” & “Jehovah knew that he would need to cut them off from the Tree of Life if he was to make good on his promise that man would not live forever.”
As you mentioned, these are points that many, even most Christians miss. I’m not sure if you’ve noticed or not, but in the book of Revelation when all is said and done, mankind is given access to the tree of life once again. (See Revelation 22:14) This goes right along with your statement when you said, “Let’s not forget; in order for Adam and Eve to have lived eternally, they would have had to eat from the Tree of Life; their own perfect bodies could not sustain living forever.” Teeny, this shows me that Satan was wrong when he said, “You will become like God.” (Genesis 3:5) Adam and Eve did come to know good and evil, but they did not have life in themselves without God! This is the point! Without what I believe to be our creator, (God) we have no life. The tree of life shows we are dependant on Him for eternal life and that will always be the case. We do not have eternal life in ourselves but only from God!
I hope this makes sense. There are many things I could say, but I just wanted to give you my 2 cents worth. Again, I really enjoyed your article! I hope to hear from you soon. Perhaps we can skype or chat sometime.
Sincerely,
Mark.
Betty
Thank u! This has helped my understanding of things a bit! I'm actually studying to become a JW but was once atheist. My how things change! Anyway, again, thanks for the explanation.
Andrew
Betty, can I ask what made you change your mind about god?
Andrew
Hi Mark,
Thanks for your comment. Personally I don't really like arguing points about the bible, which is why Teeny writes this sort of article rather than me. To me, arguing a point in the bible would be like discussing what the actual shape of fairies wings are, or the exact route that Han Solo flew the Millennium Falcon in Star Wars. The bible is a work of fiction in my opinion, and until someone provides evidence that god exists, and then that he wrote the book, there is not much point debating the correct interpretation of certain bits of it.
Regards,
Andrew
Mark
Hi Andrew,
Thanks for responding! Have you always felt this way about God and the Bible? If not, do you mind me asking what changed your opinion? One last thing, were you ever a JW?
Mark. :-)
Andrew
Hi Mark,
I used to believe in god and the bible, yes. I was also a Jehovah's Witness. But as I grew older I realised I only believed it because that was what I had been taught by my parents. I realised that I needed good reasons to believe something. I learned critical thinking and what good reasons are to believe something and saw that there is no evidence for gods existence. I also saw the contradictions in the bible.
I am more than happy to have a chat with you, Mark, (its not often I find people who are respectful about this topic - thank you) but let's do it by email instead so we don't hijack the comments here. You can email andrew@jehovahswitnessblog.com if you like.
Andrew
FutureMan
To Andrew,
It is my perception that no matter what I say myself to prove the existence of God it would not be enough as you would indeed have a counter argument.
So I use other sources such as above to show some of this evidence.
I do not necessarily agree with all of the content, but there should be enough in these two videos to get one thinking.
Having said that if it takes a mathematical genius to work out the mathematics behind the laws and principles of the Universal space continuum then would you not think that it would take a much more intelligent entity to develop the concepts in the first place to allow these mathematical geniuses to work it out in theoretical mathematical physics?
Ste Ríkharðsson
FutureMan, you just proved a point when you said: "It is my perception that no matter what I say myself to prove the existence of God it would not be enough as you would indeed have a counter argument".
If there is a valid counter-argument against a claim, that undermines its truthfulness. If there were no valid counter-argument, then it would be a theory/fact.
Your task, is to come up with an argument that proves the existence of God, that has NO counter-argument... then you're in the money.
FutureMan
To Ste Ríkharðsson
Which is more logical, from your point of view?
(1) In the beginning there was nothing and then there was something?
(2) In the beginning there was something and then there was something more than something?
(1) 0 (cause) = effect ?
(2) 1 (cause) =effect ?
Ste Ríkharðsson
Your question is loaded but I will give you an answer to that question:
Cause and effect is a change in time or in space. Time and space only exist *within* our universe so all effects *within* our universe must have a cause.
"Outside" the universe however there is neither time nor space so there is no cause and effect. Nothing can "cause" something which does not have a time-line, the universe doesn't have a time-line, the universe just is. The universe has "always" existed in the sense that time is a *part* of the universe, not something that the universe exists in. There was never a "time" when the universe didn't exist. It expends (Big Bang) and probably contracts, but according to latest astrophysical and mathematical calculations it is never created or destroyed.
Therefore (2) is more logical from a scientific standpoint but that logic cannot apply to the universe itself because the universe is NOT an effect of anything... the cause and effect principle works only *inside* the space-time universe not "outside" it.
Andrew
The cause and effect argument is flawed, I agree.
However, physicists more favoured explanation is that everything was created in the big bang and the universe will continue to expand, driven by dark energy, rather than collapse (the big crunch) until everything is so far apart that life can not exist. The big crunch would be more likely to happen if gravity would suck things back in, but dark energy counteracts this, as we see the universe expanding an an increasing rate, not slowing down as would be the case if it was going to collapse again (like a ball slowing down in the air before it falls again).
Andrew
FutureMan - not at all, I'll accept your god if you provide evidence. I am open minded - just extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
I have already explained why the mathematical argument is not evidence for god. Why did your god make those mathematical laws? Why not Thor? Or a giant fairy? Your argument is 'wow, how complex the universe is, we don't know how else it could have come into existence, so it must have been designed,' which is called the argument from ignorance. Who says god is the only other option?
Also, you admit that your god would need to be much more complex than the universe in order to have created it, and therefore it is much more unlikely to exist. Which mind greater than god created god? And so on, with an infinite regress.
As I said, I will accept evidence. Evidence can not be countered by debate as it speaks for itself - what you have offered is not evidence, just some speculations and argument. You need to back it up with physical evidence. And as I also said, you can't just say, "mathematical laws of the universe are complex so god did it," because that isn't evidence. I could just as easily say, 'mathematical laws of the universe are complex, so the magic donkey of Zargon did it," and it'd be an equally valid point.
I am open for discussion - if you want, you can email andrew At jehovahswitnessblog.com so we don't completely hijack the comments here. As long as we keep it friendly and don't get personally insulting, which I have experienced too often from believers, unfortunately.
Thanks.
FutureMan
To Andrew,
Ok then for further potential evidence for existence of an intelligent designer (God) view these web addresses that I will just post below.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...
Andrew
No FutureMan, just give me your BEST argument for the existence of god please.
FutureMan
To Andrew,
I can see where you are coming from about evidence of God's existence.
For this you must look at the mathematics that is behind all our universe.
And also investigate frequencies, for instance string theory etc.
Nothing in the universe happens by chance, however it can happen randomly but this is controlled by universal laws that are backed up by mathematics.
Also investigate fractal geometry and the Mandelbrot, you will be amazed at what you find.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B...
Good luck with your research
Andrew
Hi,
No, that isn't evidence for god. It's just the argument from design with a spin, which has been debunked many a time. Just because there are constants, it doesn't mean god did it, and certainly doesn't prove it is the god you believe in - you are trying to prove god with a cause without proving god caused it, if you see what I mean. You'd need to prove the existence of god before you could attribute something to him. You can also see See http://wiki.ironchariots.org/i... for my position on this.
FutureMan
To Andrew, that was a fair comment that you have made and a valid one.
Yes at times I can come across as patronizing unfortunately because of the nature of my personality and so I do apologize because of this.
As far as being a religious type, well I am, but I am also an evaluater of science and philosophy as well and so I do try to take all these things into account when pursuing truth.
As for knowing God from deep within yourself, I make this statement because us humans are all capable of showing the God-like love that incorporates God of which the Bible makes the statement that "God is love" and we are intelligent beings with free will and who have a thirst for knowledge and spirituality.
God may be all knowing, but us humans are capable of reaching a high standard of knowledge and understanding and spirituality if we do fashion ourselves in the image of God as presented by his So Jesus who the Bible describes as the "expressed image of God".
Andrew
@FutureMan - I appreciate your comments and honest chat, but I still think you are missing the point. None of what you said is evidence of god at all. How do you know it's because of god that we can love, for example? You CAN'T know. The default answer to something we don't know should be, "We don't know, but let's go and look at the evidence and see what it is," not, "God did it. End of discussion." That is not intellectually honest.
You see the scientific method is the best method we as humans have devised at present to explore the universe and discover what things are true. The scientific method should be applied to all claims, and when we apply it to claims of god, we come up empty. There is no evidence for god whatsoever and until such evidence is provided, the rational position is not to accept the claim that he exists. If we go around accepting all claims without evidence, we'd all need to believe in unicorns, fairies, ghosts, invisible space worms, Ra, Anubis, Thor, and so on and so on for every single imaginary being any of us could come up with.
If anyone values what is true and is intellectually honest, they should analyse the evidence for god and realise that, as best we know now, it's highly unlikely a god exists at all.
FutureMan
Not a silly as it sounds.
If you look deep down within yourself, you know who God is as we are all his children.
That is why we can call him our Father.
His Spirit resides in each and everyone of us and from time to time helps in adjusting our thinking, if we allow it to.
As for where I get the information from?
Well from the Bible, and from a few other sources of which I have studied.
One such source that has been of interest to me of late, is the Urantia papers, among others.
Do a search for the Urantia papers which is now in book form and what is contained within is very interesting information indeed.
Andrew
That is so patronizing.. "look deep down within yourself, you know who God is." No I don't. Neither do you. You just make it up. Where's the evidence for this claim? You have none.
Then you use the bible, which I have already said is circular reasoning. I haven't looked at the Urantia papers - I will - but unless it provides evidence for god (which I know it doesn't, as that'd be world headline news), it has about the same credence as an episode of Battlestar Galactica. We should require EVIDENCE before we accept anything, and there so far has not been any evidence presented for god.
Looking deep within ourselves means diddly-squat. Every religious person always sees the god they already believe in - next time a Hindu sees Yahweh, let me know (not that it'd be evidence). We already know that humans can delude themselves and the brain works in weird ways - it isn't evidence. Why don't you religious people get this simple point?
Tony
Jaymes,
I follow your line of thinking and I think that I can understand that you are alluding to the fact that the God of the Bible is not the desired God to be worshiped.
And this is true, because the way it is written about God by imperfect men is not the true picture of God or who he really is.
But there are clues throughout the scriptures where the spirit of God was active and does appear in many places throughout the Bible to reveal some truths about him.
Even the Apostles had not really got it right when writing the life story and his teachings down on parchment or whatever material they used back then to write on.
But still throughout the 4 gospels of Jesus we do have enough evidence to show how Jesus viewed God the Father and he taught this to his followers and the Jewish nation as a whole.
I believe that Jesus was indeed the "Word" of God and mirrored his Heavenly Father in that sense as the "Word" of God.
Jesus is also referred in the Bible as "Michael" meaning either "Who is like God" or "Who is like God?" I'm not certain of which.
And yes I do believe that this scripture is accurate when it states that God is complete in himself, along with his Eternal Son and his Infinite Holy Spirit.
Not as a trinity as taught in the churches but nevertheless a union of three different entities.
As for the "flood" scenario, well let us say that I have different views on that than what is mentioned in the Bible and there are other writings that bear up to the suggestion that yes there were major floods at a certain time but not necessarily on a worldwide scale and not at the instigation of God himself, but of natural occurrences that either came from within our solar system and outer space or from changes in the earth itself.
In one particular set of writings it does mention a man like Noah who did build a huge houseboat like structure to house his family and animals as well as all the animals in the area that he could gather. This could be where this account came from.
But it states that there was a rather a large flood in the area at the time that covered everything and it could have appeared to this family and friends that it did cover all the earth as far as they could see at the time, but other evidence that exist today suggests that this is not so and that there is actually no conclusive evidence so far that proves that the whole earth was covered by a flood scenario in one short period of time, except before any life existed here on the earth.
Whether this is true or not I really cannot confirm as I was not there at the time and neither has any archeological evidence being produced so far to prove one way or the other.
But to each and everyone of us who are searching for God, we do not have to look far to find him, we only need to look deep inside ourselves to find the true God and to look at his vast creation that has being intelligently evolved over a period of time at different intervals.
And of course if we use Jesus himself as a spiritual template we will also see the true God as he was the "expressed image" of the true God, the Father of all things.
Andrew
@Tony - You are claiming to know things you can't possibly know. You say, "And this is true, because the way it is written about God by imperfect men is not the true picture of God or who he really is." How do you know?! Do you have access to some sort of information the rest of us don't?
And you can't use the bible to prove the bible - that's circular reasoning (you talk of how the gospels are evidence - no, they aren't, just as Lord of The Rings is not evidence of Hobbits!). If you can just make up what God is and what he wants, what's the point? It's all very silly.
Tony
How about this?
There was only one tree in the garden of Eden and that was the "Tree of Life"
This "Tree of Life" provided a certain type of energy that would have kept on prolonging their life span.
For how long we do not know, but perhaps for many thousands of years.
The concept of the "tree of knowledge of good and bad" was an add on by the Jewish scribes to promote guilt and the need for sacrifices and the idea that since Adam and Eve partook of the tree, we are all sinners automatically as a result.
Born sinners in fact, which makes no sense.
The "Ransom Sacrifice" today is the Christian way of continuing on with this concept.
So from the Christian theology, we are all sinners as inherited from Adam and Eve, and therefore in need of redemption as was provided by Jesus Christ when he died on the stake, or cross, or pole, or whatever you want to call it.
But from the scriptures itself it can be proven that God highly regards all life even those of small sparrows, so why indeed would he sanction animal sacrifices to appease his sense of holiness and to remind men and women that they are sinners in need of redemption?
Why indeed if he values life, particularly those who are close to him spiritually as Jesus (Michael) would have been as a creator son of his, would he require him to go down and die for us as a human sacrifice, something by the way that was forbidden in the Mosaic Law?
One thing I do know, is that God does not break his own laws.
No I believe Jesus did this of his own accord because he himself had great respect for all life, even small sparrows.
He wanted to put an end to all animal sacrifices and also in the process show us an example of self sacrificing love.
Of course as God's approved son, as was mentioned at least twice throughout the gospels, God did not object to him doing this as it was his Son's will and prerogative to do so.
Also in doing what he did he proved once and for all time his fitness to rule as king, not only over the earth but over Heavenly places as well, in our part of the universe.
Teeny
Hi Tony,
How about this - there was no Garden of Eden...

"from the scriptures itself it can be proven that God highly regards all life even those of small sparrows"
Err did you forget about the flood account then? Jehovah saw it fit to perform human, animal and plant cleansing, but we'll gloss over that shall we...

One thing I do know, is that God does not break his own laws.
I couldn't find the scriptures that show you that he most definitely does break his own laws, therefore I'll leave you with this thought:
<ul>
<li>God is perfect - which means he is complete and needs nothing</li>
<li>But God yearns to be praised, demands to be loved, and is jealous</li>
<li>God is a contradiction in terms. Jehovah, Yahweh or whatever you'd wish to call him - by definition - cannot be perfect.</li>
</ul>

He [God] wanted to put an end to all animal sacrifices
Yes, I think the last sacrifice of note that was mentioned in the Bible was that of his son!
Before I go, take a look at this mighty fine example of God's loving justice - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...
By the way, I can do this all day, so please keep them coming!
Regards,
Jaymes Payten (a.k.a. Teeny Pyjamas)
johnny
rohan what are you doing on this site?
Lacy
The comment section on this just made my night! It is wonderful to see people actually using their brains and common sense. And Rohan's comments were awesome!!! He (I assume) had the best posts. I haven't laughed that hard in a few days!
First, he went on to prove the validity of the post that was debated from the other week about how the JWs believe the birds will eat the dead bodies and that they won't magically disappear. He sneers at the lack of sources on this blog despite that fact that many of the blogs contain direct quotes from the Society's literature WITH references as to the articles and even scriptures. He says that "You are such an idiot to think that Jehovah’s Witnesses actually read this trash!" then in the next breath goes on to admit to being an active JW.(That kind of hypocrisy proves he is a JW). So that statement was clearly not true. He fully admits that anything, even aliens, can be proven by picking scriptures out of the Bible. Which is exactly what the Society does. He thinks the fact that 7 Million people believing something is the truth is greater than the fact that 7 BILLION people believe it is a lie. Plus, he admits the blog writers have "skill" and are so knowledgeable about the Bible and JWs that they must have surely been elders. Were we all really that dumb when we were still JWs?
Dizzy
I just thought of something. God forbid lol.
Anyway, after armaggedon doesn't god resurrect everyone to judge them?
Now god wouldn't resurrect everyone just to start systematically murder them. So wouldn't this bring the point of the tree being a literal tree.
Everyone gets resurrected. Then gets given a choice. . Embrace god fully and partake in the tree and live forever serving him. Or reject god, be banned from the tree, and live until natural death happens.
Just a thought.
Dizzy.
Dana
Never mind about the bible, the fact that people like Rohan exist in that two-bit faith is the reason I left the Witnesses. It seemed almost (dare I say it) sinful to call people like that my "equal".
Putting Rohan's "full on retard" rant aside, you are correct in your logical assertion. We would all need to eat from the tree of life to gain immortality.
Fast FWD to the "end times". Say the 7 million brainwashed buffoons are correct in having picked "the truth"? How does that work exactly? Does Jehovah give 7 million people in paradise access to ONE TREE? Is there some kind of distribution system? Some sort of "WalMart" for fruit of the tree? Maybe he does baskets, and they just show up at your door with a "Thank you for believing in me note (and a bill for your SOUL!).
Ben
@Nonsense - where in the Genesis account does it say that the tree of life was symbolic and not a real tree? Don't pick and choose. If one tree is symbolic, why not the other? Or anything else in the bible like the 144,000 or the creation story? If we just choose that the second tree is symbolic as well, then where did original sin come from? The whole story doesn't add up and the only way to get through it is to cherry pick which bits mean what, without any authority to do so. You would think god of all 'people' could write a book that couldn't be read and interpreted a million different ways. I can't stand it when people start deciding on a whim which bits are literal and which bits are symbolic simply in order to reinforce their already existing beliefs... it's cheap.
@Dizzy - I see your point about 1 in 1000 odds, but personally I think the number of people believing or not believing in something has no validity on whether it is true or not. Besides, they are a cult so they are already thinking they are separate from 'the world' with 'special' beliefs. The argument from majority wouldn't work with them even if it were valid.
@Dana - God has no plan for mankind - he doesn't exist. I understand why people need to find meaning in life, but why do people find comfort believing that their purpose in life is to basically live in servility to a cruel supernatural totalitarian deity? Your point about the sun is a good one that most Jehovah's Witnesses would not have an answer for. Sin can't explain that one away! Even if they say that god will take care of it, it seems like a poor design in the first place.
@Rohan - I'm still waiting for your evidence that we lied about anything... I won't hold my breath. Oh, and you said, "I really can’t wait for Jehovah to weed you out at Armageddon and instruct all the birds to peck out your eyes as all the faithful Jehovah’s Witnesses look upon your silly excuse of a body" which only goes to show what a disgusting religion you are in, where people look forward to this! I'd rather die at an Armageddon than survive and see even one carcass of a child. Religion of love? Shame on you. We don't preach hatred - we just tell people how it is and they can make their own minds up.
Regards,
Ben
Dana
Quick question. Why would Jehovah construct a Sun that is going to leave the earth a wasteful void where NO tree will be able to grow in 5 billion years? What's his plan for mankind?
Dana
Rohan's gone full retard. What a brainwashed buffoon.
Dizzy
7 million witnesses. 7 billion people in the world. So that makes 1 in 1000 people a witness.
Odds of someone being wrong or right is usually 50-50.
So 1 in 1000 is pretty believable odds for them all being wrong i'd say.
Ben
@Rohan - The JWB promise states that if you can provide evidence that we have lied about something, we will retract it publicly with an apology. So you can rant and rave and throw insults or you can actually attempt to prove we lied - since the blog started, not one Jehovah's Witness has even attempted it, which kind of says everything.
Also, one of the first psychological signs that someone doesn't have an answer to criticism or a question of their beliefs is to undermine the person asking the question. If you had a good answer to any of our points, you'd have just happily told us. But you don't, and you can't, and if you can't, you should take a closer look at your cult.
Regards,
Ben - not a former MS or Elder, but knowing more than they do about their sick twisted religion.












Sorry, the browser you are using is not currently supported. Disqus actively supports the following browsers:
FirefoxChromeInternet Explorer 8+Safari
This page is forcing your browser to use legacy mode, which is not compatible with Disqus. Please see our troubleshooting guide to get more information about this error.
We were unable to load Disqus. If you are a moderator please see our troubleshooting guide.
ajw
He doesn't have faith either , because he knows everything, but he/the society requires you to have faith.
Except I think the society once said god can choose to 'forget' something(?) so if he choose to forget that he was the creator and other things I guess he could come around to having faith although I'm not sure why if he was eternal and all powerful he would, but I guess he could forget that too.....pretty sure if he read the bible it would not help but I guess it would depend on how many brain cells he choose to empty.
Gods away on buisness











Sorry, the browser you are using is not currently supported. Disqus actively supports the following browsers:
FirefoxChromeInternet Explorer 8+Safari
This page is forcing your browser to use legacy mode, which is not compatible with Disqus. Please see our troubleshooting guide to get more information about this error.
We were unable to load Disqus. If you are a moderator please see our troubleshooting guide.
Charlie
Are you a previous JW? Maybe you read about the David and lots of other Bible characters who committed sin but at the end discipline by Jehovah. What im trying to say is being JW doesnt mean that you will not commit sin. But one thing for sure Jehovah will do what ever it takes to discipline. Jehovah will not allow someone to put a dirt in his organization. And putting that in mind JW following Jehovah's guidelines on disciplining who commit sins.
Emmanuel
Jehovah God should forgive you for the lies you are spreading about his people.BE CAREFUL FOR THE END IS NEAR.Who are you to compare the slave to the pope.Go ahead and spread your so called truth and leave Jehovah's Witnesses alone.Frankly and humbly speaking,what you are doing is uncivilised.
Andrew
Okay, Emmanuel, tell us which bit isn't true. You made an accusation. Back it up. Lots of you Jehovah's Witnesses come on here and call us liars, and never ever point out a lie. So put your money where your mouth is and point out the bits you feel are not true.
Writing articles is uncivilised?! You are joking, right? What's shunning, then? Or letting children die instead of letting them have blood? Or protecting child molesters? Oh, and there was nothing humble about your comment at all.












Sorry, the browser you are using is not currently supported. Disqus actively supports the following browsers:
FirefoxChromeInternet Explorer 8+Safari
This page is forcing your browser to use legacy mode, which is not compatible with Disqus. Please see our troubleshooting guide to get more information about this error.
We were unable to load Disqus. If you are a moderator please see our troubleshooting guide.
Peregrine
They let the fact that he had committed multiple murders slide & not report him to the authorities, but the shit hits the fan when they suspect he shared a blunt with coworkers & they form a committee? Awesome...
andy
i like the way they say make discreet inquires .. does that mean go and pretend to care and see if you can get him to admit smoking a spliff. is that not a dishonest thing to do.. but then what can i expect the local elders done the same to me pretend to come and care about the troubles i had with my ex stopping me seeing my kids only it was really to tell me they was doing a judicial meeting on my arse!!..
johnny
Ive always thought that the Kingdom Hall is the safest place on earth,little did i know that the KH is a safe haven for murderers and paedophiles.
Gary Holford
Are you all stark raving mad? there are laws prohibiting revelation of a persons deeds in a certain context as its called persecution. We have paedophiles, murderers and worse- those guilty of genocide walking amongst us all of the time and their number grows larger- its not the organisation you need to slur- its politicians and government as they decree that we have to put up with it- and now they free more and more sex cases and mentally unstable folk- its probably time we built bigger fences.
What about the NOTTS (UK) convention where they tell our children "you don't need qualifications to progress" - they say they can go to bethel and gilleads and be taught- in other words they inspire litigation brought against themselves (not the hostility or apostates- but true debate).
Andrew
@ Gary: Why do you do this? Why do Jehovah's Witnesses automatically dismiss what we 'apostates' say? Our arguments should not be judged by who wrote them, but on their own merit. The letter clearly says that they don't need to report crimes to the authorities! Wake up and leave your cult.
Room 215
Gary, as a JW, you must know that the "true debate" which you recommend is anathema to the Watchtower
Ba-al-ah
They are sick twisted demonic liars.
Shaun James
Lol. Nice little pun xD
Yeah well structured and written out with intelligence and FACT. very well done.
Lets bow our heads and pray... "Dear BLOG, we are thankfull for all the truths you instill to us. Amen"
Shaun James
Yeah well that bits obvious but i meant it as in something that could be said directly back to them.
Can't deny whats in their farytale book.
You can add me on my FB if you want on your normal account. just add me through my brother or something :)
Teeny
@Shaun,
Will do mate. So what do you think of the website? We've put our heart and soul into it. I'd say it's a good 144,000 hours spent...
Shaun James
Romans 13: 1: Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2: Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves.
So that would mean that failing to report the crime, makes them in the laws eyes "aiding and abetting".. which means they are Rebelling against the authorities and Directly against what "God has instituted"
Can't wait till they get the Judgement on themselves.
Teeny
@Shaun.
Problem is, I can't see them ever being judged. Not by God (he doesn't exist), and not by any Western Government. I suppose we have to all hold our hands up and praise the Russian Government for at least giving it a go!
Regards,
Teeny
P.S. We played football together once in Larnaca.
Carol Ali
Oh.. my.. GOD! How utterly appalling! How can anyone in their right minds hide the fact that they know of a MURDERER in their midst and then CONDONE it! Yes they condone it by NOT REPORTING IT to the authorities! Does that mean that if someone in THEIR family was murdered and they knew who did it AND where they were at that very time, they would keep it hushed up? What about JUSTICE?! Oh hang on - they're going to let GOD sort that bit out in his own good time. *long wait ahead*. Anyone who actually agrees with what is written in that letter are just as bad!
Teeny
Hi Carol,
Welcome aboard!
Regards,
Teeny












Sorry, the browser you are using is not currently supported. Disqus actively supports the following browsers:
FirefoxChromeInternet Explorer 8+Safari
This page is forcing your browser to use legacy mode, which is not compatible with Disqus. Please see our troubleshooting guide to get more information about this error.
We were unable to load Disqus. If you are a moderator please see our troubleshooting guide.
Jade
They can answer all ur questions w. The bible!!!!
Andrew
@Jade: You mean with a Watchtower publication and the bible, right? No Witness goes on the ministry with only a bible! It has to be the Watchtower approved interpretation of the bible.
johnny
My question to all jws is this, if Jehovah is directing his org on earth why is that a young girl named Conti took the WTS to court and won her case?
A young girl against a billion dollar corporation?










Sorry, the browser you are using is not currently supported. Disqus actively supports the following browsers:
FirefoxChromeInternet Explorer 8+Safari
This page is forcing your browser to use legacy mode, which is not compatible with Disqus. Please see our troubleshooting guide to get more information about this error.
We were unable to load Disqus. If you are a moderator please see our troubleshooting guide.
Silver DollaMinion
The bible tell exactly wht will happen and it will end.....soon to b JW
Teeny
@E.
Hi,
I'm not following you? By "Tiny", are you referring to me?
Regards,
Teeny
E.
I so enjoy religion-based fact statements. Basically, Tiny is stating that his statements are fact, and nothing you say will discredit him, because "time will prove him right." So what? There was no concrete "proof" offered by Tiny, thus no reason to believe nor to listen further. I give my beliefs no title. For me, if there is a universal "God" entity, it is just as likely to be a tremendous form of energy as it is likely to be an entity humans can see with their eyes. I don't know, I have no proof, I have no faith...surprise me when I die! LOL Were I to attempt an explanation of my belief system, it would be to take common sense from all religions and add a title: E's Common Sense Beliefs, or ECSB. I believe that the Ten Commandments are easily justified as common sense. I have no proof that the Pharoah lost his son to plague brought by God, nor that the waters parted for Moses by request. There is scientific evidence that events occurred similar in fact to "stories" from various religious beliefs. Fine with me. I'm good accepting what anyone wants to believe if that belief does not kill, punish, or deny me basic life rights. I accept Tiny's rational that whatever is going to happen, WILL happen, whether there is a religious belief attached to it or not. When the sun rises, one may believe it is by God's will, or that it is a natural event given that energy has a way with a sunrise. I will only argue to the death these fact-based beliefs: I do not have to believe in your religion, you have no right nor permission to attempt to force your belief on me, and you have every right to have your beliefs. Outside of these beliefs, I have only one solid piece of knowledge: I will defend myself against any belief that may harm me, my family, my friends, my country, or my animals. Call it religion, call it science, call it faith. I will fight it, harm it, kill it... whatever has to be done... to make it leave me alone. Count on it, take it to the bank, pray about it, but "it will happen, whether you believe it or not." :)
Ben
@E, not sure what 'facts' you are claiming Teeny said.
I don't even know where to start in reply to you. The ten commandments are common sense? Which ten commandments? The first 10 in Exodus 20 or the second 10 in Deut. 5? Is the one about the wife being property of the husband common sense?
Ben











Sorry, the browser you are using is not currently supported. Disqus actively supports the following browsers:
FirefoxChromeInternet Explorer 8+Safari
This page is forcing your browser to use legacy mode, which is not compatible with Disqus. Please see our troubleshooting guide to get more information about this error.
We were unable to load Disqus. If you are a moderator please see our troubleshooting guide.
Spankfish
So, what did your god do today?
Well he inspired a far off postal service to put his name on some stamps.
No Shit? That's amazing! Where do I sign up?
I wouldn't bother. He can do this, but cant seem to inspire his earthly organization to get the date for the end of the world right.












Sorry, the browser you are using is not currently supported. Disqus actively supports the following browsers:
FirefoxChromeInternet Explorer 8+Safari
This page is forcing your browser to use legacy mode, which is not compatible with Disqus. Please see our troubleshooting guide to get more information about this error.
We were unable to load Disqus. If you are a moderator please see our troubleshooting guide.
Andy
Jehovah knows best!











Sorry, the browser you are using is not currently supported. Disqus actively supports the following browsers:
FirefoxChromeInternet Explorer 8+Safari
This page is forcing your browser to use legacy mode, which is not compatible with Disqus. Please see our troubleshooting guide to get more information about this error.
We were unable to load Disqus. If you are a moderator please see our troubleshooting guide.
John
After reading a lot of the stories of x JW's defecting it doesn't shock me or suprise me it just saddens me that people got stuck in a cult rut and then just tried to leave peacefully. Now think about it was anyone of those JW's displaying love of god or neighbor when they kicked out this traumatized teenager? How very sad and sick on their part that they would put the mentality of a organization above gods own word. They don't know the real meaning of putting one outside God's congregation and how paul applied it to first century christians. people were disfellowshiped because they didn't agee with the teachings of Jesus Christ not some 12 men sitting up in a ivory tower who haven't the first clue about raising kid's. What's even more disgusting to me is how this father could treat his own flesh and blood with such callousness. This is a selfishly oriented religion always about me me me and full of self pity for oneself. All these adults were trying to do is save themselves from there supposed good upbringing that they thought they did from making them look bad in the eyes of fellow witness's. In the end it's all about mind control and saving face. I am so happy 2 of my 3 grown adult children have left such a deabilitating cult in order to really preserve the rest of their lives. They are better for it and have not fallen for the trap that holds such weak minded individuals to that religion. They live happy and fruitful lives not always blaming everyone else for their problems but effectively see life for what it really is. They accept responsability for their actions good or bad and learn to be happy withen themselves. I really am happy for this girl who left. My brother left at 14 and never looked back and has a wonderful loving family to show for it. In the end its those parents and grandparents who do not deserve the love of this young sensible teenager. They should take a lesson from her for making a stand for the real Truth about this false religion that has claimed so many lives in the name of God. They are the stupid ones. They are disloyal to their own flesh and blood. In the end she was merely denouncing her faith in a corrupted organized man made religion not Jesus Christ and his teachings. John 14:6 tells us that Jesus is the way and the "TRUTH" not some man made religion that came almost 1900 years after Jesus came to preach the good news to all mankind. AS the bible tells us God will Judge those who are judging You. I am happy this girl has reclaimed her life and hopefully by her example many others will do as well. May Peace be upon her.
Nancy
Hi, my head is still spinning from the JW and their influence on my now ex fiance. Three years ago after his mother died, my fiance started questioning his beliefs. Not wanting him to give up on God I encouraged him to keep his faith. For one reason or another he started slipping from church and I invited him to mine which he did attend a few times. He went back to his church and last winter started complaining again. I guess I got used to his complaints and didn't pay much attention, telling him he could come to my church or that together we could check out some of the churches in town and I would go till he found one he felt comfortable in. He went with me where I attend a few times and then went back to his church. That's where I thought he was going till a few weeks ago. A little over a month ago I was over his house for the day. We had a relaxing Saturday together and when I left that night it was with plans for me to make a special dinner the following Friday for us. When I called Thursday to remind him he said he wasn't coming and would talk to me later. I called a few times but he always cut me short and so we never really talked. A month later I was confused so went by where he worked when he went to lunch. At first he didn't say much, it took him a while to tell me that he was going to Kingdom Hall and that when he was younger he went there till he got involved with drugs. I knew he had been JW when he was younger and had done drugs, but he was in his twenties then, he is in his sixties now so I didn't have any reason to even think that was what was going on now. I was shocked to say the least, I knew a bit about JW but not much and never gave them much thought. It finally came out that God told him that I wasn't for him and that we had to end our relationship, our engagement. I was confused and hurt and just walked away without saying anything to him. A week later we ran into each other and I agree to talk to him. Yesterday I went to his house and one thing he wanted was for me to agree to meet with some of the JW. I refused. I found out he had been going to the church since January and that he would soon be starting doing the door to door recruiting. This man used to be a baptist preacher!! I had found a few things on internet to take with me to show him but not much that I could really understand in simple layman's terms. I showed him how they believe that Jesus died on a stake and not a cross and he said that he believed the cross but that somehow he also died on a stake and seemed unsure of answer when I questioned him. We talked about how JW believes the spirit ceases to exist at death and he tried to show me in Bible where the spirit goes back to God. I tried to get him to see that didn't mean it ceased to being when it went back and he sounded so confused as he tried to explain it to me and also when I brought up false prophecy of world ending and how if it was really from God that the WT wouldn't have gotten it wrong, that for it to be wrong that it was a false prophecy. He claims that something did happen in 1914 (I think the year) but wasn't sure what it was. He did admit that there was some things he had trouble meshing with what he believes now so I am hoping that there is still some hope but not sure how to proceed. I have talked to my Pastor and will try to get another Pastor that may be able to talk to him. I am still growing and I will be honest when I say I have a hard time reading the Bible and understanding it. I have taught Sunday School and honestly easier for me to learn from that level and understand. We all learn in our own way and grow. The thing is apparently my ex is the same way when it comes to understanding the Bible, it has to be done almost as talking to a child. Is there any pamphlets or books that anyone can recommend that I could send on to him? At this point I am not wanting to see or talk to him as I feel betrayed and yes I'm hurt and angry but my being doesn't feel right not to try to save him from this cult.
Steve
Hi Nancy,
I'm so sorry that you've experienced the loss of a fiance due to his being sucked into the Watchtower religion.
You have to understand that this is a cult, and as such arguing over Scriptures will most likely be futile. They have answers for everything, and even though they appear as very poor answers to those outside of the cult, they are sufficient for those whose minds are already controlled.
But if he only has one foot in the door so far, here are some very simple online things you might get him to look at: http://smmcroberts.net/blog/qu...http://smmcroberts.net/religio...
Or, if it has to be printed:http://smmcroberts.net/religio...
Nancy
Thank you so much for your reply and sites. I am printing them to send on to him.
lulu
My family has been destroyed by JWS. Divorce is ensuing. One spouse has accussed the other of abuse. The same spouse has perjured themself already and signed documents that are lies. One spouse is "locked up." The other has taken everything including the children and gone home to the JW grandmother.. THe guilty spouse was disfellowshipped more than ten years ago. No help could come from the parents or the money backing the ex-JW unless some sort of abuse was accussed. I am the non JW grandmother and I have raised these children since birth. My grandchildren have been told lies about all of the non-jw family indluding myself (I am bad and I am going to die cause I am not a JW and they will not go to Heaven unless they go to JW) I have not seen my grandchildren in months and am told I will never see them again. Why?When the JWS came to my home that I shared with all of the above family I would not let them in until the police arrived as I feared for my safety. The jws above are also "violent." I was assaulted and sent to the ER. Why not put names or genders? I am afraid all the time. My family who are non-jws have had their lives threatned by the JWS. My heart is broken. I did not know about this kind of experience. The non-fellowshipped spouse has gone home and now has all the support of the jws. including their money. I ask:Am I gonna have to wait for my young grandchildren who are both under ten to grow up to maybe see them again. I can tell you that as a result of my ex disfellowshipped child-in-law's upbringing and sexual molestion he/she has alot of emotional issues and has resorted to attempted suicide three times that I know of. I went thru CHemo and multiple surgeries as a result of cancer recently but it does not hold a candle to having my family split apart. I thought a person's faith was to bring togetherness and love. My God is a loving God and does not permit me to lie or cheat or steal or hit someone almost killing them. No one can convince me that JW is not a cult. No one can convince me that their beliefs are healthy. I know first-hand. Best wishes to all those who are struggling including my family.
David
I was a Witness for many years when I was younger. You think they are so peachy clean? Bullcrap. The only ones that got any respect were the ones that had the most money. Their children could be little devils and nothing was ever done to stop them, And as for some of their adults, how about going out and drinking it up after Thursday night meetings at the pizza place. I actually became an alcoholic from being with them. Now I have to fight this the rest of my life. I NEVER had a drink in my life until I joined the Witness cult. And they do shun you completely if you leave their so called RIGHT religion. Been there , done that as they say. Now my life is a hell everyday. And as for their ideas on sexual matters, it's crazy , they say you will be destroyed if you masturbate. When I finally met my lovely wife I thank her for getting me past my sexual hang ups from all the brain washing I received. Avoid these people, they are dangerous.
Dani Kune
When I was an elder, I met quite a few dysfunctional circuit overseers and district overseers who acted out of deference to "Mother" rather than to common human sense and conscience. When an elder counsels a fellow elder to kick out his daughter if the daughter wishes not to go to meetings and field service it is sick, self-righteous, and hypocritical. It is a common "rule" with JWs that if a family member is disfellowshipped or disassociated that family member can still live in the same household as long as the spiritually "strong" ones do not talk about spiritual things to the" weak" or spiritually "dead" one. There is no Biblical passage that specifically condones throwing out a relative for choosing to be disassociated from the congregation. It is hypocritical to demand another person do that and not suppose it can ever happen to you. Would that elder kick his wife out if she decides to disassociate herself?
Andrew
It's not just hypocritical, it's immoral. Why would ANY behaviour change just because a daughter, wife, husband, etc, simply has a different opinion? It's sick.
gordavco
In 1996 having been a JW for 25 years, I had a breakdown, attempted suicide.
A culmination of not having believed what they taught for a long while and personal problems, but being married to a JW and having children, I just went along with it all. Even though I was in a "position of responsibility" as they say.
Six months after my breakdown, my wife told me to leave home, Elders decided I was a "spiritual danger" to family. In that time there was absolutely no support from any of them, for me or family.
Three years on after much research, I disassociated. By this time two of my baptised children disassociated and followed me out, two daughters were still in plus wife.
From 1999 to 2012 I had no contact whatsoever with them. Those two daughters had even got married, I was never invited to their weddings.
This year one of those disassociated children fell seriously ill, he nearly died a couple of times, he was in hospital for 6 months..
His JW mother and two sisters visited him in hospital, the first time they had seen him in 13 years.
Now he is back living with me, still ill but recovering, in the month he has been home, neither his mother or sisters have made any contact to see how he is.
He has decided if thats how they are that he does not want anything more to do with them.
Neither do I
Steve W. Otta
Keep up the good work. I was raised in this cult and left 35 years ago. It was the best thing for my own mental health that I ever did. My family has disowned me but I have friends who treat me better than my family ever did. It's sad the way this religion destroys lives. I saw the one post that called you a liar because you didn't post their real names, how many times has the Watchtower printed something and said "the names were changed" or something to that effect. Good stuff here.
Comankind
Was a witness for 35 years. 18 years of marriage. three beautiful kids. I couldn't believe it anymore and had trouble being myself after years of pretending. Finally submitted a letter. My father and grandfather are elders at my hall, and both now shun me, along with my mom and grandmother. I am an only child.
I'm going thru a divorce. I feigned adultery so my wife could be free to remarry. I felt sorry for her inability to let go of the organization and think for herself.
My kids are caught in the middle. 13-16 years of age. My wife has told me that once they are baptized , they will not speak to me. I am attempting to turn this around. I have two years on the oldest, she views me as causing all of this heartache. She doesn't know the real truth, and I have to find a way to help her learn without scaring her away.
I hope I can have at least my kids. We will see how far this goes. But it is difficult to be peaceable when people treat you as dead and deserving no respect.
I believe a law for shunning should be on the books. Any religion that enforces shunning would require that their followers cannot commit themselves until a rightful age of consent. (18 or 21) - not unlike entering the military, only this decision is FAR weightier, as destruction of family is worse than death IMO.
gcs7000
Thanks for posting this, James. Two of my favorite quotes: "Being raised in a cult is like being raised in a snake pit," and "I've learned that people only pay attention to what they discover for themselves." ~ gcs7000@ymail.com
Asia Nealy
The WTS use Biblical "proof" for this, such as 1 Corinthians 5:9-13:
In my letter I wrote YOU to quit mixing in company with fornicators, not [meaning] entirely with the fornicators of this world or the greedy persons and extortioners or idolaters. Otherwise, YOU would actually have to get out of the world. But now I am writing YOU to quit mixing in company with anyone called a brother that is a fornicator or a greedy person or an idolater or a reviler or a drunkard or an extortioner, not even eating with such a man. For what do I have to do with judging those outside? Do YOU not judge those inside, while God judges those outside? "Remove the wicked [man] from among yourselves."
The Greek for the words "quit mixing in company" is "sunanamignumi".
This means according to Strong's Exhaustive Concordance:
"To 'mix up together, i.e. associate with; (have, keep) company (with)."
Also, Thayer's Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament says of the same word:
"to keep comany with, to be intimate with..."
The same source further uses 1 Corinthians 5:9 and 11 and 2 Thessalonians 3:14 as examples of how the word is used in the Greek text.
This is in contrast with the Greek word "mita". In Strong's Exhaustive Concordance it is interesting to note that this word "sunanamignumi" is shown to mean a much closer association than that or the word mita which merely denotes:
"accompaniment; amid (local or casual) - general association
Thayer's Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament also says regarding the Greek word sunanamignumi:
"A fellowship far closer and more intimate than that expressed by mita, although in the N.T. (New Testament) this distinction is much oftener neglected than observed. So from here it can be seen that the word used in 1 Corinthians 5:9 and 11 denotes close association, as with a friend, or someone with whom one would normally share a meal with"
So, you can see there is a clear distinction between "mita" (general association) and "sunanamignumi" (close association). This is clearly demonstrated in the Greek language.
We can see why Paul recommended that there should be no "close, or intimate association", or sunanamignumi
When we look at the two words we can clearly see the expression Paul uses really does not suggest at all that one cannot say a simple "hello" out of common courtesy to such an individual. Paul's warning is not to become "intimate" with the individual. However, he could have some "casual" or "general association" since this is what he would have with persons in general.
Pauls councel at 1 Corinthians Chapter 5 does not suggest that a Christian cannot be cordial to disfellowshipped individuals. He could have "general or casual association" with such individuals, which is what the scriptures really indicate.
Donna Bamlett
Hey Teeny, no matter the hecklers, they are far behind and we wish for them to one day catch up! Getting tangled up with that crap is not your focus and I think most of us will agree. You are doing a great job and deserve and thank you for spending your time trying to open up a forum for people who are desperately trying to become alive. I remember the day that I said NO MORE, I left my abusive x husband, and was glad to send the elders a letter telling them that they will sow what they have reaped. I was just glad to get out with my two young boys before it was to late and they were treated like worthless people who have no abilitily to think for themselves. Whatever the pay off is for these stupid JW"s to keep coming on here and trying to defend that CRAP! I may have done the same thing and look where I am now!!! HAVING A WONDERFUL AND REAL LIFE WITHOUT THE MENTAL BRAINWASH! Thank YOU!
trusting poet
I too can verify this is not an isolated or extreme incident. I was disfellowshiped at the age of 19 and I am still dealing with the emotional trauma from it 10 years later. My mom, my grandma, anyone I had ever known was no longer allowed to talk to me. As I had been home-schooled as well, I had no friends or associates outside of the organization. I was born into the religion and had never known anything else, and because of the teachings I was very much not prepared in any way shape or form for life on the outside. I am still trying to figure it out.
sew sad
Trusting poet, your story sounds very familiar...I was born into it too, my whole entire family are jw's homeschooled too, df'd twice, it was like being dropped-kicked into a world I was utterly unprepared for, totally shattering. I came back both times and have tried and struggled for years and years (not df'd now, but sort of inactive) but when I became a parent (that was the second df-ing), I found I could not teach someone else things I wasn't sure I believed in. I feel utterly lost. And trying to figure it out. I don't actually believe in anything anymore.
I've been on this site all day...it would be nice to talk to one of the owners of the site, I think. I'm pretty scared about it but...I've gone this far. I wish I could just go back, but I find I cannot.
trusting poet
I felt the same when I became a parent. The first time I held my son I knew that no matter what he did I could never turn my back on him the way my mother did to me. Up until that point I understood and even justified her actions by blaming myself,... But after becoming a mother myself it changed my perspective.
I too find that I just dont believe in anything anymore, you are not alone.
I know what you are feeling right now, how you felt when you found this site and started reading stories from people whom you could relate to, who might actually understand you. For the first time realizing that you might not be so crazy after all, and that there is an explanation for the way you think and feel.
It is liberating and terrifying all at the same time. So much to process, so much to work thru... and years of teachings to overcome.
You will make it. Believe me 100% when I tell you that if I can start to figure it out and start to straighten out my head, anyone can. Just realizing that you are not alone helps more then anything.
Hugs to you.
sew sad
You don't even know what your words mean to me (well, maybe you do). I have been torn apart over this for so long, but in August I was told that there was no global flood by a friend so I set out to prove him wrong. Cause of course there was. I spent two months reading and researching obsessively and I learned he was right. It destroyed my world. Before, I just blamed it all on myself and knew that there was something deeply wrong with me. I have been hysterical on my knees, praying for a sign or an answer. I still pray, from a desperate hope that something in me will change and I will suddenly get it. The few times I've dared to mention what I found out I was told that stuff didn't matter, that Jehovah made the laws of science so of course he could make anything happen (even break them in a staggeringly unbelievable manner) or to talk to the elders and they will answer my questions. I finally answered their calls. They are supposed to visit me tomorrow night.
Sorry to go on and on, but you're right...I feel like I am living in The Matrix and Inception at the same time- this is all a dream and I don't know what to believe or trust anymore. But I can't lie to my daughter. I just tell her I don't know...she is terribly confused and it hurts me to see that but I can not lie. I just don't know anything anymore.
Sally
I too have recently rethought my decision to be one of JW's. I too have lost a daughter due to my decision. I am so angry. She is so devoted. I just keep praying she will see what she is doing. Another thing she and her husband decided was to wait to have children until the new system. She will never know the love between a mother and daughter. How sad.
johnny
If after reading this sad sad story and you dont feel any thing at all no sadness no sorrow no tears no anger at all then im afraid you must be one of them a jw.
johnny
Thats how jws show love for one another you dont believe in the jw org you are out of the house, you can be dying in hospital still they wont let you take blood, you get raped by an elder no one believes you unless theres 2 witnesses.
Paedophile elders and criminals are treated much better than relatives who decide to leave the org.
The jw org are the modern pharisees they appear so self righteous, quick to point fingers at others they look down at other religions they think they are gods chosen ones out of the billions.
Pharisees back then dont know what humility is all about and that is exactly the same with the leaders of the jw org. You think they will apologise for all the mistakes they have made never.
The sooner you leave the jw org the better.
frank
This happens all too often and no one speaks up about it. Thank you for posting this. I knew of a similar situation, where a 17 year old daughter was disfellowshiped and the father kicked her out to still be an elder. My daughter was disfellowshiped and they tried to tell me to kick her out. They are so unloving, they are nothing like Christ and Jehovah. Unfortunately my daughter returned to the witnessess, but I haven't and will never attend again.
Harold
Brandon sounds like a full fledged J.W. cult member, if not one of their leaders. He has no meritable comments of any value and a waiste of time his reading his 'inspired' comments. Good luck with your life views.
PeterLuke
Im catholic and cannot believe the JW's riding bikes aroung Belize. They have not offered me salvation but have attacked and guilty conscioused my friends into believing they can gain 300000 salvation. I am American and cant believe the mind f**kin they are doing. Maybe they will get it right the third time, oops, now they dont have a date, after the last two mistakes.
Andrew
Yeah Peter, because the disgusting, impoverishing, paedophile-helping, lying, homophobic, spreading AIDS by saying condoms are bad, oppressive Catholic church are so much better than the Jehovah's Witnesses. They are as bad as each other! Don't be a hypocrite.
Mark Palo
Mcroy, What did you do? Major in Ebonics? Your spelling and grammar are abysmal. Do you write your ministry schools talks this way? Duh! If your School Servant hasn't suggested a basic English class then he is as illiterate as you. At least the rags Watchtower and Awake have proper spelling and fairly good grammar even though they are full of bull poopy. Oh dear, did I make an active JW angry? TFB! As for the tool I'd call you a fool and you sound like your mind has been set on spin dry and forgotten.
Marla
If only this were an isolated incident but this is how the JW cult works. These brainwashed fools who think this is the view of an apostate clearly are delusional!!!! Just because names have been changed to protect their identity doesn't make this less true. Once you decide to leave the organization you are an outcast from the congregation & from the family. My house my rules is the motto so if you aren't going to the meetings or out in service you're OUT.
AYAKINS & McCroy stop kidding youselves into thinking there isn't hypocrisy, lies & secrets in your cult.
Mc roy
am not surprisd apostate dwell on lies....why didnt u go by their real names so we cld mak verification....good to knw dat nothin is done about all ur apostate writings...while u kill precious time on ur lies Jehovah witnesses are speedily expandin in over 236 lands...need i remind u dat apostates wors dan u hav not been able to succeed..where is hitler today......u ar just a fustrated apostate......anyway i see u as a comic analyst keep it up u an ur congregation of disfellowship bro an sis......u stil hav tim 2 make a turn around Jehovah is a lovin an mercyful God......u make me laugh
Andrew
Why can't people type properly? Using 'dat' and 'u ar' makes you look like a moron and makes it hard for us to understand what you are saying.
So, the bigger issue is not that the Jehovah's Witnesses destroyed a family, but that the name was changed to protect their identity... you're a moron. How many articles of the Watchtower start off with, "Names have been changed." As if that's the issue here. You're a moron.
Secondly.. Hitler was an apostate!? Wow! Where did he get baptised as a Jehovah's Witness? Again, you are clearly a moron.
And point out one lie we have made on JWB. Go on, big mouth moron. Where have we lied? You should always judge an argument based on its own merits, not on who says it. Did I mention that you are a moron?
Ayakins
I am one of Jehovah's witnesses and wil ever be proud to be one.Christ said if they hate me they wil hate u(refering to his faithful disciples)
mama snuggles
i just have to say, i have not been a witness for probably 10 years or more, and am not up on the current 'teachings, ' etc, but when i last went to meetings, the general thing was that the internet was bad, dont get involved in all thats on there, yet so many now have fb, but aside from fb, if you are such a proud witness, what are you doing looking at any blog, page etc, that is by an 'ex, apostate', much less taking the time to comment on the article? again, last i heard, you werent supposed to read anything that even breathed a word about jw's if it wasnt published by the society itself, as this page is 'apostate', so again, what are you doing reading this?
Teeny
Hi Ayakins,
Using that logic, all paedophiles can say the same thing. Paedophiles and Jehovah's Witnesses have one thing in common - they both destroy families - as this post shows. If you're really lucky, you get a double-whammy: A Jehovah's Witness paedophile.
You can fool yourself all you like. Thing is, the world has some intelligent people in it, and some of them are on this page.
Kind regards,
Teeny
PS. You're a tool
Brandon
Jehovah's Witnesses aren't a cult
Harold
Brandon, are you one of those sicko cult bastards? You sound like one! Lay off with your diarrea of the mouth. Thankyou.
Brandon
Lol Harold if you goimg to insult someone, read a dictionary, lol atleast type it into Google first lol.. the word is diarrhea, and read my post lol I'm not a Jehovahs Witness anymore but I respect it. And unintelligent people always have to result to insults lol. And Sunny not a cultist , like I said if JWs are a cult then all organized religions are a cult..
Brandon
@ Andrew you still really ain't saying nothing all religion shun your or pull themselves away from you when they are punishing you, Catholics don't want u to read the Quron, Baptist shun u of learn about scientology, Muslim shun women if they walk out doors uncovered, buddhist shun u if kill fly, scientology shun you if you don't pay up! Etc. Etc.. all of them are cults by tour logic.
Andrew
I agree, they could all be considered cults. I also said that I fight against them all.
Andrew
Brandon, to a degree, you are right. All religions could be considered a cult, but generally when we refer to a cult we are talking about the higher control groups, of which Jehovah's Witnesses are one. That isn't a blind insult - they fit the definition. They shun ex-members, control what information members read, what they can wear, etc.
You say there is no emotional blackmail, and that you are free to make your own decision on joining and leaving but that simply isn't true. Is it a free choice when someone threatens you with complete shunning if you leave? No. They use that to keep people in, for fear that they will lose their families, etc, as this very post explains. I don't understand why you are so defensive about an issue that is so clear cut. This story above is proof. And I fight against all religions - I just know Jehovah's Witnesses the best which is why I focus on them.
I noticed that some people comment on JWB just to convince others of what they hold to be true rather than coming with a mind open to change - I think you may be one of those people because I don't see how you could look at this post with intellectual honesty and still think they aren't a cult.
Sunny Martin
I have given up now. I totally forgot that there is no point trying to reason with a cultist as they are under mind control
Andrew
Always worth arguing in a public forum - maybe other JWs will see the weakness of their argument and wake up.
Teeny
Hi Brandon,
Well, if you say so...
Did you even read the article? I suppose you also suffer from Watchtoweritis. I did for around 28 years. I don't think I ever read a complete Watchtower magazine from cover to cover in those years, yet I always knew the answers. Watchtoweritis does this to you. It's only contracted by cult followers.
You need to see a doctor. I recommend Dr. S Hassan.
Brandon
Cult
1.
a particular system of religious worship, especially with reference to its rites and ceremonies.
2.
an instance of great veneration of a person, ideal, or thing, especially as manifested by a body of admirers: the physical fitness cult.
3.
the object of such devotion.
4.
a group or sect bound together by veneration of the same thing, person, ideal, etc.
5.
Sociology . a group having a sacred ideology and a set of rites centering around their sacred symbols.
Watchtoweritis? inflammation of the Watchtower? No. Well by those standards all religions are cults. I wouldnt say I was a die heart Jehovah's Witness. But I know its not by any way a cult. And no one worship the watchtower.
SM www.howcultswork.com
This better explains cults, any kind of cult. Check it out and then tell me JW's are not a cult.
Sunny Martin
I have just read the definition of a cult that you just posted. That definition is nothing like other cult definitions I have read. You are correct..(so far as I can tell) no-one worships The Watchtower but Jehovah's Witnesses ARE expected to put the writings by The Faithful and discreet Slave (sic) above the words that are written in their bible. They also have a common language, using words with definitions that other people don't use.
SM
Perhaps you should read what the characteristics of a cult are and then you would understand why the JW organization is considered a cult by many and not just those who have left.
Sunny Martin
Thanks so much for posting this story. I was interested that you bought a copy of Steven Hassan's book as it was this book that helped me leave the cult. I took a couple of days to read it and that was really all it took. I went to no further meetings and it was announced at one of the congregation meetings that I had been disfellowshipped. This was back in the 90's and even now current members are not allowed to associate with me and they weren't told the circumstances leading up to my being disfellowshipped.
Interestingly, the events that lead up to the disfellowshipping announcement were that I stopped going to meetings and read Steven Hassan's book. I had no idea that was a disfellowshipping offence.
Brandon
Not really the faithful and discreet slave, are more of an advisor board, witnesses take what they say into account but above all we use gods word the bible over everything, like I say if Jehovahs witnesses are a cult then ever religion is in fact a cult.
Sunny Martin
I read "Crisis Of Conscience" by Ray Franz and that put me right. That is one of the many books banned for JWs to read. Thankfully I am able to choose my reading material now and there is no chance I could get sucked in again. The witnesses are often skilled at mind control techniques and emotional blackmail. That is why is is so difficult for some people to leave and many others to recognise that they are members of a cult.
Sunny Martin
I haven't singled out Jehovah's Witnesses...this site is about that religion so I wouldn't start talking about something that is off topic. I didn't realise that JWs were using mind control techniques until I read up on it and spent the time to study widely. Witnesses are expected to avoid a huge amounts of books and focus only on the bible and the watchtower publications. There was prestudying for meetings, field service and talks to prepare...all this kept the witnesses so busy that there was no room for critical thinking. That is one of the forms of mind comtrol they use.
Brandon
No. There's no mind control or emotional blackmail, they let you make your own decision whether not you want to be a witness or not. I said this all ready, I'm pulling myself away from religion but i know good teaching and good values when I see them.. If you want to look at it that way all religion is mind controlling, all of them. So I don't see how you just singled out witnesses, even the religion of the flying spaghetti monster is mind controlling. and yes that's a real thing.. I have allowed myself to learn the basic of alot of religions, and trust me there are ones that will make your head spin.













Sorry, the browser you are using is not currently supported. Disqus actively supports the following browsers:
FirefoxChromeInternet Explorer 8+Safari
This page is forcing your browser to use legacy mode, which is not compatible with Disqus. Please see our troubleshooting guide to get more information about this error.
We were unable to load Disqus. If you are a moderator please see our troubleshooting guide.
Charles Huff
You made a mistake if you were going to stay a JW, you studied the bible... no one can believe it once they study it.
Ben
@Charles - Too right! How to make an atheist - read the bible!
Ben
Teeny
That basically did it for me too. I started reading and got to the bit where Jehovah created the plants before the sun and thought "Hold on a minute....?"
That was it. I put the good book down and picked up an even better one, The God Delusion. Been an atheist ever since.
Regards,
Jaymes
Nico
So this is the science I'd like you to read before totally deciding if Genesis was possible or not. Not the JoHo account of Genesis but just Genesis itself.
Science doesn't lie right? If you briefly read up how stars form from the gassy clouds it can take a great amount of time & many different types of energy. http://www.universetoday.com/2...
In other words these gassy clouds also put off light long before they condense into stars; Day 1 separating the dark from the light . So we have light. Day 2 we have sky & water. Water comes to planets from passing comets I think we can all agree there I don't need to site it. Then Day 3 & 4: I would like to offer up evidence that all the planets in a solar system forming all at once, after the star has formed, may be what test book in our schools teach but is not proven fact with the next articles: http://www.universetoday.com/8...http://www.huffingtonpost.com/...
Does this mean planets in the solar system can form along with the star, without a star, after a star, & even around a black holes? Yes Scientists think so & are working on collecting the evidence. http://www.alaskadispatch.com/....
& I would like to add that the age of our Sun, being older than Earth, is not indisputable fact of 4.5 billion years but if it is that old this creates a big problem in our current fossil record concerning weather patterns. Our sun should be hotter, from 40%-70% hotter, today than it was 2.5 million years ago but it's not. The fossil record shows the earth was not frozen over but balmy & teaming with life. Meaning the sun could be much younger than currently represented. Called the Faint Sun Paradox: https://www.answersingenesis.o...
Now I have to back up to plants after science shows Earth didn't necessarily have to come after our Sun. I use my own knowledge of gardening here. Plants use Photons, a particle / wave from light in photosynthesis. Many house plants & aquatic plants, single celled & multi-celled even, don't require anywhere near as much light as the sun produces & it doesn't really matter to them where the the light protons come from. A nearby gas nebula or a grow-light bulb. Plants will use it & grow.
As for Noah we don't really need the idea of Intelligent Design even to explain. All the animals didn't have to be adult animals did they? Dog breeds go back to a wolf type pair & that's just breading not Evolution. I do like this site for many of it's logical concepts. http://biblicalgeology.net/Ans...
So this is the current science & other sources I read. WT writers add a lot to the Bible that just isn't there to differentiate themselves from Christianity & ultimately be a controlling cult. I don't defend them. I don't keep up on what they teach anymore & it doesn't surprise me at all that so many end up Atheists after leaving them! God isn't with them, let alone directing them, so their members never feel the Lord in their lives. What an opium it is to be free & think you'll end up in nothingness after suffering them for so long.
Best Regards, Nico
Andrew
Hi Nico, at the end of the day, the bible doesn't say any of that science. You have to interpret genesis to say that. Genesis actually says the universe was created in 6 days, that it is only thousands of years old and not billions, that plants were created before the sun, and more. And even if it WAS right, is Genesis Chapter 1 correct or Genesis Chapter 2 because they are different accounts that when you read them side by side actually contradict each other. And even if genesis was correct as you say, there is that pesky issue of god. There is no evidence for god, so we should not accept any claim about him until he has been shown to exist. Each claim needs to be tested - you shouldn't accept one scripture as true without evidence just because another one is.
You said, "Dog breeds go back to a wolf type pair & that’s just breading not Evolution" Actually, that is evolution just through breeding.
Thanks for commenting.











Sorry, the browser you are using is not currently supported. Disqus actively supports the following browsers:
FirefoxChromeInternet Explorer 8+Safari
This page is forcing your browser to use legacy mode, which is not compatible with Disqus. Please see our troubleshooting guide to get more information about this error.
We were unable to load Disqus. If you are a moderator please see our troubleshooting guide.
Hossam
Big warning saginl!!! The watchtower and Jehovah's Witnesses do not lead you to the truth. GOD leads you to the truth through the Holy Spirit. That is the Holy Spirits job. Pray before you study on your own to get to the truth. God is capable to lead even a person stranded in the wilderness with only the Bible as a companion. Trust God, not any one church. I have studied with JW as well as many other sections of Christianity. I have recently been moved to be with Seventh Day Adventists. They encourage you to study on your own as well as attend the church. They are the closest to what the Bible actually teaches. One of the reasons I stopped studying with JW is because the Bible clearly shows that with God your burden should be light. I notice they have very rigid idea's about going door to door. Once you are a member, you are required to do a certain amount of hours. It seems many of them were not happy. It appeared as though their god increased the burden on the every day person. SDA teaches LOVE above all things. Most of them practice what they preach. I have always felt loved at the church that I attend. They also do not make me feel like an outcast because I have not been able to get rid of my addictions yet. They continue to treat me as one of the family. They don't normally push for cash (They do take a collection but they believe God will put it in your heart to give.) Since God is Love, shouldn't his group of followers show that in their everyday life? Look at these two scriptures and remember what day is the seventh. It is Saturday.Exodus 20:8-11 (One of the ten commandments)andMatthew 5: 17-18 (What Jesus says about the Commandments- they are still important) It's so simple but because of people's stubborn belief in their pastors and clergy . they miss it. Study on your own for a while and if you want to return to study with someone later, That is fine. Just make sure you use only the Bible to lead you to truth. (Cross check everything that is said by the Bible) If it isn't in the Bible, don't accept is as truth from God.
Yahweh's People
So if it isn't in the bible don't accept it. Like trinity, Christmas, none of this is in the bible but people still believe this pagan way. Jehovah name is in the bible but does anyone use his real name when teaching other than the JW? What about your preacher? Has he ever used the real name of the true god Jehovah? False prophets want to continuously use god the father etc, etc. As I also recall when reading the bible Jesus walk all through Jerusalem, Bethlehem and many, many other places to teach and preach the word of his father and he also said to his little flock of sheep to do this, go out and make many to preach the good news about his father. So JW are doing exactly what Jesus said to do. If you could study the bible on your own and understand it congrats. But I seriously doubt you could without any questions. It's best to first start with someone knowledgeable enough to show help you. You know like kindergarten, 1st grade etc. etc,. Why didn't Jesus just drop of a bible and walk away? Because no one would have had any idea how to comprehend it. That is why they have teachers to explain things. That is what Jesus was set out to do by his father, and was doing. What about the people with out transportation or never left the area that they lived because it was so remote? That is why JW go out to teach and preach the word of Jehovah exactly what he ask his son to do. There is a lot of people who are unfortunate in the world so isn't it great that Jehovah's people are able to go out to them and show them what they are missing. If you studied with JW you would have known why they go door to door.










Sorry, the browser you are using is not currently supported. Disqus actively supports the following browsers:
FirefoxChromeInternet Explorer 8+Safari
This page is forcing your browser to use legacy mode, which is not compatible with Disqus. Please see our troubleshooting guide to get more information about this error.
We were unable to load Disqus. If you are a moderator please see our troubleshooting guide.
Mawo
Why do Catholics believe in Mary riswhop or purgatory or the pope or the Apocrypha? Why do Mormons condone polygomy? Why don't Baptists accept the person of the Holy Spirit? Why do Episcopalians condone homosexuality? We focus on what is wrong with the body of Christ and in so doing we drive a wedge between each other and then nobody wins because the body isn't being strengthened and the lost aren't coming to know Jesus. How could we expect anything other than that to happen when we are so focused on pointing out each other's faults that we don't do the very thing that Jesus told us to do Love God and love our neighbor. (Luke 10:27)Let's start by acknowleging our own faults and ask the Lord to do a work in our lives so that we would be able to live accordingly, bearing fruits worthy of repentance (Mt. 3:8) and living lives that would turn the hearts of many back to a loving God.











Sorry, the browser you are using is not currently supported. Disqus actively supports the following browsers:
FirefoxChromeInternet Explorer 8+Safari
This page is forcing your browser to use legacy mode, which is not compatible with Disqus. Please see our troubleshooting guide to get more information about this error.
We were unable to load Disqus. If you are a moderator please see our troubleshooting guide.
Leo
What about the idea that ( as was posed to me by the JWs I study with ) that everyone will make it into this Paradise Earth becsuae death is the price for sin? So - everyone who lives through Armageddon will be judged and judged HARSHLY for living through it, yet if we all just top ourselves today, we get a free ticket into Paradise...I'm in Australia, Western Australia. Please someone tell me if this teaching is different elsewhere, but I mean, I can't help but think of it as a HUGE flaw and a bit of a worrying one.
trusting poet
I can tell you that they teach the same in the US... in fact for a long time (up until very recently actually) I was actually hoping I would die so that I could be saved. I knew that I have been so bad by having children out of wedlock and now living with a man I'm not married to that I would surely be judged and killed at Armageddon, so yes I used to fantasize about ways I might be able to die without committing suicide. In fact about 7 years ago I was in a car accident. A drunk driver hit me head on, and I was so upset, not because of the accident, but because I had lived thru it.
Ben
@Leo Yes, it is a bit silly, isn't it. But the Jehovah's Witnesses say that suicide is a sin and therefore those who commit suicide don't get forgiven their sins... ridiculous!
Also, I hope the Jehovah's Witnesses enjoy welcoming back Adolf Hitler in the new system!
Ben
suzi
My step Mother has been absorbed by these fiends aaaaaaaagh!!! Love this site! x
Teeny
Hi Suzi,
Cheers for the comment on the website.
When did your mother get sucked in?
Regards,
Teeny











Sorry, the browser you are using is not currently supported. Disqus actively supports the following browsers:
FirefoxChromeInternet Explorer 8+Safari
This page is forcing your browser to use legacy mode, which is not compatible with Disqus. Please see our troubleshooting guide to get more information about this error.
We were unable to load Disqus. If you are a moderator please see our troubleshooting guide.
Kurt
I found that after more than a year of so called "Bible Study" in the Bible Teach book, that I had just been going around and around and kept landing on the third chapter of Genesis. The Bible Teach book would make an assertion and present cherry picked scriptures, but many of those did not have anything to do with the assertion being made. I found the study material to be made to dismally poor academic standards. Many of my questions were dismissed and unanswered.
Aditya
According to Jason BeDuhnAssociate Professor of Religious Studies, and ChairDepartment of Humanities, Arts, and ReligionNorthern Arizona UniversityThe Greek word translated esarphgd' by many biblesliterally means to rob, to rape or to plunder'.So Paul is saying that Jesus did not try to rob, rape or plunder equality from God.This is an example of where trinitarians have water down God's word to say something that it doesn't.While critical of some of its translation choices, BeDuhn called the New World Translation a “remarkably good” translation, “better by far” and “consistently better” than some of the others considered. Overall, concluded BeDuhn, the New World Translation “is one of the most accurate English translations of the New Testament currently available” and “the most accurate of the translations compared.”—Truth in Translation: Accuracy and Bias in English Translations of the New Testament.“Here at last is a comprehensive comparison of nine major translations of the Bible: King James Version, New American Standard Bible, New International Version, New Revised Standard Version, New American Bible, Amplified Bible, Today's English Version (Good News Bible), Living Bible, and the New World Translation. The book provides a general introduction to the history and methods of Bible translation, and gives background on each of these versions. Then it compares them on key passages of the New Testament to determine their accuracy and identify their bias. Passages looked at include: John 1:1; John 8:58; Philippians 2:5-11; Colossians 1:15-20; Titus 2:13; Hebrews 1:8; 2 Peter 1:1Jason BeDuhnAssociate Professor of Religious Studies, and ChairDepartment of Humanities, Arts, and ReligionNorthern Arizona UniversityOf the above sited scriptures only the NWT translated all of them correctly.
Luis
It's interesting how JWs love to cite scholars when it suits them. But, for example, they don't accept what ALL scholars say about 587BC instead of 607BC. The same scholars that say 539BC, which the WT gladly accepts as true. Accept one but not the other from the same scholars? Cherry picking?
I wonder if this DeBuhn believes in the Trinity?...lol
Andrew
Yes, because they have already decided the bible (and Watchtower) is true no matter what, which is fundamentally a dishonest position to hold, is closed-minded, and doesn't allow for them to actual test whether it is true or not.










Sorry, the browser you are using is not currently supported. Disqus actively supports the following browsers:
FirefoxChromeInternet Explorer 8+Safari
This page is forcing your browser to use legacy mode, which is not compatible with Disqus. Please see our troubleshooting guide to get more information about this error.
We were unable to load Disqus. If you are a moderator please see our troubleshooting guide.
Afiq
Go to e-watchmans site "Watchmans Post" & find out what some anointed bros & ssiters believe, theyre participating in the many forums on this site. The is, IF you want to be set free....!! Any anointed who has in the past written letters to the H.Q. in New York addressed to the Gov. Body ( a corporate term, did NOT EXIST in the 1st century)who are self appointed, do NOT answer any correspondence, but have directed any congregation "body of elders" to judicially "throw them out of the synagogues"











Sorry, the browser you are using is not currently supported. Disqus actively supports the following browsers:
FirefoxChromeInternet Explorer 8+Safari
This page is forcing your browser to use legacy mode, which is not compatible with Disqus. Please see our troubleshooting guide to get more information about this error.
We were unable to load Disqus. If you are a moderator please see our troubleshooting guide.
Milan
I can't believe I used to read all the Watchtower pcnaiultiobs and not realize how STUPID and illogical it all was. I have been "out" for close to 3 years now and am finally coming out of the fog! Love your blog!!!











Sorry, the browser you are using is not currently supported. Disqus actively supports the following browsers:
FirefoxChromeInternet Explorer 8+Safari
This page is forcing your browser to use legacy mode, which is not compatible with Disqus. Please see our troubleshooting guide to get more information about this error.
We were unable to load Disqus. If you are a moderator please see our troubleshooting guide.
Zablon onyango
Thats our hope. Lets just be patient, jehovah will help us.












Sorry, the browser you are using is not currently supported. Disqus actively supports the following browsers:
FirefoxChromeInternet Explorer 8+Safari
This page is forcing your browser to use legacy mode, which is not compatible with Disqus. Please see our troubleshooting guide to get more information about this error.
We were unable to load Disqus. If you are a moderator please see our troubleshooting guide.
ben benjamin
Hello, how can I get in touch with you, I would greatly appreciate help if it can be given.
Thanks
Andrew
Hi Ben, we got your email - will reply this week.











Sorry, the browser you are using is not currently supported. Disqus actively supports the following browsers:
FirefoxChromeInternet Explorer 8+Safari
This page is forcing your browser to use legacy mode, which is not compatible with Disqus. Please see our troubleshooting guide to get more information about this error.
We were unable to load Disqus. If you are a moderator please see our troubleshooting guide.
Wallysson
"Please inform rdreeas what precisely is unscriptural about Watchtower forming a network of anointed ones in the earth."There was none in the Bible, i.e. there is no Biblical precedent."Please explain to rdreeas why it is unnecessary for a representative to know precisely who it is he or she is representing."Do elected officials know every person in their municipality, congressional district, and so forth? Need a network be maintained?They do know whom they are representing. People vote for a certain official because they agree with how he will represent them. Likewise, anointed are Jehovah's Witnesses because they agree with how the Governing Body represents them - why else did they become Witnesses?












Sorry, the browser you are using is not currently supported. Disqus actively supports the following browsers:
FirefoxChromeInternet Explorer 8+Safari
This page is forcing your browser to use legacy mode, which is not compatible with Disqus. Please see our troubleshooting guide to get more information about this error.
We were unable to load Disqus. If you are a moderator please see our troubleshooting guide.
johnny
An organisation that protects abusers instead of the abused cannot be gods organisation..no way










Sorry, the browser you are using is not currently supported. Disqus actively supports the following browsers:
FirefoxChromeInternet Explorer 8+Safari
This page is forcing your browser to use legacy mode, which is not compatible with Disqus. Please see our troubleshooting guide to get more information about this error.
We were unable to load Disqus. If you are a moderator please see our troubleshooting guide.
Preet
The Jehovah’s Witnesses cult receive their rcdeition from The Watchtower Bible and Tract Society headquartered in Brooklyn, New York. This organization claims to be the channel of communication from God to his people, that it represents Jesus on earth, and that you cannot find Scriptural guidance outside of it as an organization.The only problem is that the Watchtower brand of doctrine is not biblical doctrine. It is heavily filtered doctrine through Watchtower interpretations combined with selective questions and scripture quotes. Of course, the Jehovah’s Witnesses will strongly disagree with this statement. They say that they read and study their Bibles and only use the Watchtower literature as a guide to understanding God’s word. But it is this very admission which condemns them because their doctrines are not found in the Bible. The proof is found, believe it or not, in the Watchtower’s own writings. Consider this quote from The Watchtower Magazine, August 15, 1981 that says: From time to time, there have arisen from among the ranks of Jehovah's people those, who, like the original Satan, have adopted an independent, faultfinding attitude They say that it is sufficient to read the Bible exclusively, either alone or in small groups at home. But, strangely, through such ‘Bible reading,' they have reverted right back to the apostate doctrines that commentaries by Christendom's clergy were teaching 100 years ago










Sorry, the browser you are using is not currently supported. Disqus actively supports the following browsers:
FirefoxChromeInternet Explorer 8+Safari
This page is forcing your browser to use legacy mode, which is not compatible with Disqus. Please see our troubleshooting guide to get more information about this error.
We were unable to load Disqus. If you are a moderator please see our troubleshooting guide.
johnny
"thus what is taught is not from men but from jehovah" hhhhhmmmm..










Sorry, the browser you are using is not currently supported. Disqus actively supports the following browsers:
FirefoxChromeInternet Explorer 8+Safari
This page is forcing your browser to use legacy mode, which is not compatible with Disqus. Please see our troubleshooting guide to get more information about this error.
We were unable to load Disqus. If you are a moderator please see our troubleshooting guide.
johnny
Which one is Jehovah and which one is the Govening Body of Jehovahs Witnesses
Hhmm..let me see, it depends on which angle you are coming from..the GB was formed in the late 70s which means if you count from the year 1914 no from 1919 no well we just wait patiently until the light gets brighter
johnny
In the bible every prophecy that was prophesied by Jehovahs prophets were fulfilled, they had Jehovahs backing, as for the Watchtower Society they have failed miserably with 1914 ,1925 and 1975 that is proof that Jehovah is not with them. Im puzzled as to why they love to predict dates when its written in the good book that only Jehovah knows the end.
Andrew
@johnny - I don't see that every bible prophecy was fulfilled at all. In fact, some times it says that people acted a certain way in order to fulfil the prophecy. If I order a steak and the waiter brings me a steak, is he fulfilling prophecy?
I agree though that they love to predict dates when they shouldn't.
Trudy Zelenka
[quoted] "The Governing Body is neither a prophet, is not inspired"
You got that right! Yet, one trick question the elders use is this one, "Do you believe Jehovah is using the 'faithful and discreet slave to dispense spiritual food at this time?"
If one says no to that question, then watch out, big trouble is heading your way~
Would God use men to teach lies? mistaken doctrines? Man made end time dates that encouraged believers to put faith in them? When they fail, that should wake a person up as though a trumpet was sounding! But wait, a new WT book is released, that ought to clear things up, after all if the gov body wrote it, it must be inspired of God and looked to as something to be treasured.
In this religious organization, a written thing can be true and wrong at the same time. What does this do to the brain of a Watchtower follower? It numbs it to sleep.
Trudy Zelenka
If one becomes a true follower of Christ, then they will get booted out of the Organization.
A true follower of Christ cannot teach disciples a two hope doctrine. One hope is heaven, the other, living on earth forever. This doctrine is not found in the teachings of Christ nor his apostles.
There is one hope, one faith. The so called 'other sheep' are simply the gentiles that Christ's Jewish disciples were instructed to gather to the fold. It was time for God to bring people of all nations into a relationship with himself and this was the way he planned it. The Jews first and then ' the other sheep, the gentiles. It is so simple to understand and it is incredible how the Watchtower doctrines have twisted Christ's teachings. Why? I believe it is because of pride, control and a way to elevate themselves above all others Christ died for. I know God allows this to see who really are faithful to his Word and who are discreet. Discretion is used by making careful examination of what is being taught by comparing that to the teachings of the Christ and his apostles.
Ben
@ Trudy: Thanks for commenting, though I kind of switch off whenever someone starts preaching about Jesus. My problem is that the Jehovah's Witnesses have no evidence to support their claims, and neither does any other religion. They are all the same to me - made up.
Ben











Sorry, the browser you are using is not currently supported. Disqus actively supports the following browsers:
FirefoxChromeInternet Explorer 8+Safari
This page is forcing your browser to use legacy mode, which is not compatible with Disqus. Please see our troubleshooting guide to get more information about this error.
We were unable to load Disqus. If you are a moderator please see our troubleshooting guide.
region job
You're so cool! I do not suppose I have read a single thing like this before. So great to discover someone with a few unique thoughts on this subject matter. Seriously.. thanks for starting this up. This site is one thing that is needed on the internet, someone with a bit of originality!










Sorry, the browser you are using is not currently supported. Disqus actively supports the following browsers:
FirefoxChromeInternet Explorer 8+Safari
This page is forcing your browser to use legacy mode, which is not compatible with Disqus. Please see our troubleshooting guide to get more information about this error.
We were unable to load Disqus. If you are a moderator please see our troubleshooting guide.
Eric
Well, I hope they are monitoring, and frankly, I hope the come to my place, they better bring an army. Bastards..Keep up the good work...The Truth shall set you free!
Pissed
Let me guess why. Maybe because they already been given the share of all the wealth and luxuries and privileges from the profits gained by the gigantic printing company?
johnny
Greetings to the theocratic warfare team.....see anything you like on this blog..no? yes? no?
Dale Mowday
The reason they will not listen is because they are BRAINWASHED FOOLS.










Sorry, the browser you are using is not currently supported. Disqus actively supports the following browsers:
FirefoxChromeInternet Explorer 8+Safari
This page is forcing your browser to use legacy mode, which is not compatible with Disqus. Please see our troubleshooting guide to get more information about this error.
We were unable to load Disqus. If you are a moderator please see our troubleshooting guide.
johnny
Wow i will definitely cram those two scriptures. Love debating with some jws who think they know the bible.
LO
if you are sincere in your worship you should take a look at what Watchtower's own website says, NOT what someone told you. here's the link. http://www.watchtower.org/e/bh...
Ben
@LO Yes, and many points Jehovah's Witness Blog makes uses references from the official Watchtower site to. I like visiting their site when I am trying to think of a new article to write - there's always something funny and crazy to write about!
Ben










Sorry, the browser you are using is not currently supported. Disqus actively supports the following browsers:
FirefoxChromeInternet Explorer 8+Safari
This page is forcing your browser to use legacy mode, which is not compatible with Disqus. Please see our troubleshooting guide to get more information about this error.
We were unable to load Disqus. If you are a moderator please see our troubleshooting guide.
Teresa
Hi Ben,
I am not a jw yet i'm just studying right now, i was just curious if someone like me wanted to get baptized and can't attend meetings/convetions, i am not 100 percent if i want to join or not. my family is catholic and they want me to stay that way.
teresa
What happens if i want to get baptized and can't attend what can i do ben
Ben
Hi Teresa,
It saddens me that you want to join the Jehovah's Witnesses. Let me quickly explain why. If you get baptized and then later decide, for whatever reason, that you don't agree with something they teach, you will not be allowed to talk about it. If you decide to leave, then every Jehovah's Witness that is talking to you now being loving and kind would have to shun you. These aren't signs of a loving religion.
Do you really want to be a part of a group that allows children to die rather than take blood? Yes, they justify it, but ask yourself sincerely - is there ANY excuse to allow a child to die needlessly? If you answered, "Yes", you'll make a good, heartless and mind controlled Jehovah's Witness. If you answered, "No," then you need to get away from them.
I think people can believe whatever they want, but when those beliefs hurt people, it isn't acceptable. Jehovah's Witnesses fall into the "hurting others" category.
Regards,
Ben











Sorry, the browser you are using is not currently supported. Disqus actively supports the following browsers:
FirefoxChromeInternet Explorer 8+Safari
This page is forcing your browser to use legacy mode, which is not compatible with Disqus. Please see our troubleshooting guide to get more information about this error.
We were unable to load Disqus. If you are a moderator please see our troubleshooting guide.
Amanda Rules
You must like rap and or heavy metal.... or really hate JWs for disfellowshipping you. IE you didn't take responsibility for your failings but cowardly choose to blame.
smmcroberts
Wow, Amanda! You're amazing! I read this article and I never picked up on the things you have:
1. That Teeny was disfellowshipped.
2. That he doesn't take responsibility for his failings.
3. That he is a coward.
4. That he likes rap and/or heavy metal music or he hates Witnesses for disfellowshipping him.
Such sensitivity! Are you psychic, or what? Sorry; of course not. But does God speak to you and tell you these things [via his "channel" the WT, of course]? If so, it must be the wrong god, because Teeny hasn't been disfellowshipped.
It seems to me that a person could write an article like this whether they personally liked or disliked such music. A person could also write such an article without an ounce of hatred towards Witnesses.
But please go on personally attacking people you don't know, and pontificating on things you couldn't possibly know; it's so revealing of the Watchtower attitude.











Sorry, the browser you are using is not currently supported. Disqus actively supports the following browsers:
FirefoxChromeInternet Explorer 8+Safari
This page is forcing your browser to use legacy mode, which is not compatible with Disqus. Please see our troubleshooting guide to get more information about this error.
We were unable to load Disqus. If you are a moderator please see our troubleshooting guide.
Anonymous for family reasons
Wow! I feel so left out. The only one that applied to me was I worked during assemblies to get out of listening to long talks. Sadly, I even enjoyed some of the talks. I went from die hard JW, to apostate, in about a week. Then I tried studying to fix my "doubts" but I knew that was hopeless; once you start thinking, it's hard to stop. Service? No. I could not preach what I didn't believe. I found myself laughing silently to myself at the absurdity of a public talk, and after the meeting I was approached by a sister who was gushing over what a great talk it was. I nodded and just about ran out of the hall before I opened my mouth, because I knew if I spoke I'd be sitting in the back room before a judicial committee before the hall cleared for the next meeting. Within six months I was an atheist. Funny what happens when a JW allows himself/herself to think.
Brett C. Barnett
Lets see, I do randomly underline articles to make it look like I'm following along.
My mind wonders off every time I go to a meeting.
I have never contributed money and I never will because its MY money and I will not give it to them because they will use to spread more and more lies and hate all over the world.
I do keep my eyes open during prayer, and I stick my tongue out at the guy giving the prayer when he isn't looking.
www.JehovahsWitnessBlog.com is now one of my favorite websites.
At the end of a prayer I don't whisper but think to myself "This is some dumbass s**t"
I'm not too fond of the smurfs cartoon, but I do watch plenty of other shows filled with demons and evil spirits.
Yes, I have farted in the car during field service and let the adults blame each other.
Harry Potter is f***ing AWESOME!!!!!!!!!
"Thriller" is by far one of the top 10 greatest music videos ever made.
I don't read comic books in the bathrooms, however, I do sneak in there every once in a while to check the status of my "Tiny Tower" game on my iPhone 4S. Luckily, they haven't been suspicous of me going in and taking around 10 minutes.
I have yet to run into any JW's at my school, however, I did run into an old friend of mine who was a witness back in 8th grade who is now disfellowshipped, and she seems to have been allot happier since she was disfellowshipped.
I don't have porn on my computer, but I do go to a few sites everyday to get my "fill".
I hate the song and my dad ends up humming it every once in a while so I have to crank my headphones up to full blast so I can drown out the idiotic song.
I draw glasses, beards, mustaches, goatees, devil horns, scars, stitches, and clown make-up on pretty much every person I see in the watchtower magazine.
If I don't wear my name tag, my mom will dig her nails into my arm until I put it on.
After the first 15 mins of the afternoon sessions I'm asleep, and usually don't wake up until song time.
I don't plan on having children, and it wont be possible because I want a husband when I get married (btw I'm a guy and I'm gay) but yes, I think its the right thing to do if your child is dying, give them blood.
And yes, I wish my parents weren't witnesses. I lay awake at night wishing and dreaming about the life I would be having if they weren't witnesses. I would be able to come out to my parents about my sexuallity, I wouldn't have to get up at 8:00 am every Sunday to go somewhere that just depresses me, my parents would willingly get better high-paying jobs that would give me a chance to actually save some money for college, I would be able to have fun with my friends during school holiday events without having to lie to my parents, and I wouldn't have to live in fear of being vaporized in some firey explosion of spritual fire.
I can't wait to move out and move in with my loving boyfriend. Only a few years left and then I'm outta here!
Andres Torres
Number 15 made me lol! While everyone else was reading the Watchtower, I was reading about meditation and evolution on my Kindle. I did this for months.
Witness
This is discussing
roy steele
I just had to laff @ some of the comments above - they rival a few of Seinfeld's best witticisms.
I 'stumbled' on to this 'site' in error, as u do, looking for some info' on JWs - but then got to thinking : " Well, so what ? the 'Kids' get to see a better life, are clean {sic}, a fair education and a good family life are in evidence, - as opposed to poor African/Indian/3rd World kids, begging for survival in the streets and ghettoes. And worse, being used as sex slaves. And worse ...
However. to my mind the Mighty MAMMON is no Myth in the JW Boardrooms - and is still an all-pervading issue ; whether you are JW, LDS, Jewish, Bush Baptist or other Christ-oriented groups.
But for all that, (you) don't seem to hurt anyone directly, or with malice aforethought - unlike some far-flung-fleckin hypocrites we daily engage with on GOD's planet Earth.
Keep up the good work - I would give a 10% tithe IF I KNEW WHERE IT SPENT - ?- Jesus & God are Very Transparent ; Nothing to hide.
Trynhard
Great article, I've been an apostate for 34 years. The witnesses are full of @%#>
Charlie - JW survivor
I remember in the after-congregation vicious gossip sessions, the mother telling the elders she caught me watching Power Rangers! Oh, the frowns of disappointment. I'm only glad she didn't walk-in on me in my teenage years or they would have castrated me for sure!
mightyfister
I actually loved the assemby. The building was right next to a Fry's electronics store where i would waste the entire day playing on the Playstation displays.
jso
25 is the best!!!!
cef211
Haha number 20 I have not heard that song in over a decade but it immediately got stuck in my head when reading this
Ste Ríkharðsson
HAHAHAHAHAHA... number 18 made me laugh because it actually happened!!!:
You’ve been to at least one Judicial Committee and lied so well they made you a Ministerial Servant!
Shane
From reading this article I think I was an apostate when I was studying with these guys. LOL! I never really felt like I was "in" anyways. Thank you for this. It made me laugh.
Dillen
A big YES to most of them! I still think Harry Potter is great because no matter how many times I got told it was bad, behind their backs I loved the magic and friendship they had there! In my crazy opinion, do you think Harry Potter portraits a typical example of the JW tiny world? Muggles VS Wizardry? :) Harry Potter did feel more at home at Hogwarts -- just like how I felt when I was at school.
Jezebel Bell
I posted your "Apostate" graphic above on my FB site, linking back to here with the link to your great site below and I had an active JW post. He thought that magazine was real and was dissing the articles as "bull".LOL....Keep up the good work.
Jez
Mark Palo
Am I apostate? I have one that is similar to the reading of comic books in the can. I always ran the sound at my hall when growing up. This allowed me to sit separate from the rest of the loving brothers and sisters. I use to insert my latest comic book in between my study Watchtower. I made sure to give a comment every now and then and learned how to multitask by keeping an eye on the mics and stage so the sound was always working right. I never got caught but I sure went through comic books. Once one realizes that all answers to the study questions are right in front of you, it becomes a matter of speed reading the study article. Too bad Ipods or mp3 players weren't invented yet since I definitely would have had ear buds on. I had to stifle laughter when some brain dead one would compliment me on my well studied answers. Can polly say, "Bullshit?"










Sorry, the browser you are using is not currently supported. Disqus actively supports the following browsers:
FirefoxChromeInternet Explorer 8+Safari
This page is forcing your browser to use legacy mode, which is not compatible with Disqus. Please see our troubleshooting guide to get more information about this error.
We were unable to load Disqus. If you are a moderator please see our troubleshooting guide.
jimbo
Fucking hilarious,my friend you're like the Andrew dice Clay of jw jokes.
Des Storrier
How can the JW's keep flapping on about last days when they have been so shamefully discredited on this issue so often. It is another form of spiritual blackmail to attract insecure people to their ranks. Be nice to JW's, they are seriously flawed and need help. They actively promote rejection of higher learning as a means of shielding their membership from rational thinking. Their fragile grip on reality may well be the foundation of many religious sects but should never be regarded as substantial enough to justify their our thoughtless acceptance of their own scare tactics. When they knock at your door, tell them that they have the right to preach their irrational nonesense but that as a rational, educated person you also have the right to reject it.
carol stream
google this bro jeremy evans bank robber ray bandit carol stream il glen ellyn cong
Liz
James wins.
James
Why don't you come over to my place and show me how to stay awake, stand firm, and grow mighty?
Catherine
Hi there! You make my blood fractions hot!
Catherine
You don't need to go to college; I can give you an education.
Catherine
I may die tomorrow in the great war of Armageddon. I'm still a virgin so please spend my last night with me?
Catherine
A jug of wine, a loaf of bread and a public reproof.
Catherine
To an unbaptised sister 'How do I love thee? Let me count the hours.'
Catherine
Let's make wise use of the last days before Armageddon.
Catherine
Serenade her with 'He ain't heavy, he's my brother!'
Sally
Absolutely hilarious! "We're gonna party like it's 1975." Brilliant!
donkennedyalbert
thank you!!!!! great humor and i love cypriots :))
Teeny
You love Cypriots? So you're the one....
DeRanged Jdub
Ah ahaha ...so sharing this
Buddhagan
Number 32! LOLZ









Sorry, the browser you are using is not currently supported. Disqus actively supports the following browsers:
FirefoxChromeInternet Explorer 8+Safari
This page is forcing your browser to use legacy mode, which is not compatible with Disqus. Please see our troubleshooting guide to get more information about this error.
We were unable to load Disqus. If you are a moderator please see our troubleshooting guide.
johnny
Good point, Jesus when praying to Jehovah refered to him as father, it is a sign of respect just like a son when refering to his father as dad or father, a son does not call his father by name.
As to the WTS claim that Jehovahs celestial forces are buzy directing the org here on earth, my question is this why didnt the celestial forces do anything to stop thousands of young innocent children from being abused?
Why are this celestial forces protecting brothers and sisters while preaching [have heard stories of angelic protection] but cannot protect a young innocent kid from being abused?










Sorry, the browser you are using is not currently supported. Disqus actively supports the following browsers:
FirefoxChromeInternet Explorer 8+Safari
This page is forcing your browser to use legacy mode, which is not compatible with Disqus. Please see our troubleshooting guide to get more information about this error.
We were unable to load Disqus. If you are a moderator please see our troubleshooting guide.
John
When will this man made organization stop publishing lies!!!! Perhaps they don't know the real meaning of a Apostate. Here is the common meaning known to us.
"Apostates are those who fall away from the true faith, abandoning what they formerly professed to believe. The term describes those whose beliefs are so deficient as to place them outside the pale of true Christianity. For example, a liberal denomination that denies the authority of Scripture or the deity of Christ is an apostate denomination"
So when someone still believe's in Christianity or agree's with the deity of Christ but questions the man made polices and doctrines of their own making, why are they termed a Apostate? Clearly to place a label upon them to group them together with real Apostates who don't believe in the teachings of Jesus Christ.
Again a futile attempt by the false prophet organization to false label those who don't agree with their false teachings on bible scripture.










Sorry, the browser you are using is not currently supported. Disqus actively supports the following browsers:
FirefoxChromeInternet Explorer 8+Safari
This page is forcing your browser to use legacy mode, which is not compatible with Disqus. Please see our troubleshooting guide to get more information about this error.
We were unable to load Disqus. If you are a moderator please see our troubleshooting guide.
cedrick http://upload.is.free.fr/uploa...
a new scandal subliminal picture in à french magazine "réveillez vous" p32 april 2011












Sorry, the browser you are using is not currently supported. Disqus actively supports the following browsers:
FirefoxChromeInternet Explorer 8+Safari
This page is forcing your browser to use legacy mode, which is not compatible with Disqus. Please see our troubleshooting guide to get more information about this error.
We were unable to load Disqus. If you are a moderator please see our troubleshooting guide.
Nico
No that is not what was taught for the 1st 1000 years of Christianity. Please state your sources outside of the WT?
Source: http://www.goarch.org/ourfaith...
"Man and His Purpose as Creature of God
Before we enter into a discussion of the spirituality of the Orthodox Church, let us see what is man's purpose as a creature of God. Man is created in the image and likeness of God. The human destiny is not to achieve mystical union with the essence of God, but rather to attain moral and spiritual perfection by participation in the divine uncreated energies. Man, according to the Orthodox Fathers, was not created perfect from the beginning. Rather he was created with the potential to achieve perfection through grace. This, of course, was not realized because of the fall. In the fullness of time, God sent our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ to become man, and through his suffering and resurrection from the dead, restored man to his original state of grace and enabled him to attain perfection. Christ says: "Be perfect as your Father in Heaven is perfect." The ultimate purpose of man, therefore, is to become perfect in God, through love. That is, to attain perfect, selfless love of God and one's fellow human beings. "
Orthodox priest look the way they do because they've been around since before Jesus. They don't change for our contemporary fashion.
In a nut shell: We were never perfect. Jesus redeemed us from our own inherited sins because he wanted to. Satan never owned anything let alone you!
God Bless I'm so glad you brought this up!
ajw
"Jesus redeemed us from our own inherited sins " eh?
Are these sins we inherit before we are born?
Or ones we that we do after we are born?
imo generally something would be considered 'moral' if one has a choice in the matter.
The your daddy's daddy's, etc... ate an apple/disobeyed/didn't pay a bill and now we are coming after you to collect doesn't wash with me.
If it is the type of sin that happens or is committed after we are born, it just looks like two wrongs trying to make something right.
Andrew
And how do you know this? How can we be sure your version is more correct over any other interpretation? That's the problem with the bible - it isn't clear, despite being written by a so-called omnipotent being.
Nico
Because it's not my interpretation but that of The Church that put together the Bible & The Church of the Apostles that wrote the books of Bible. Who better to interpret it? I did listed the Orthodox Goarch.org website as my source. There's a reason the JW's are quick to cover the fact they don't need a direct Apostolic Line & it's because there is a church of Apostolic Linage. It's a 2000 year old church and as you point out the Priest still dress exactly as they did 2000 years ago, act very mild & peaceful, but more important to me they still teach the Bible the same way.
The Church didn't have the "East–West Schism, until (traditionally dated to the year) 1054, & then is where the differences from the Apostolic (Orthodox) Church & and the Western Churches started creating it's own teachings - for example Catholicism etc. (Source http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O...
Eastern Orthodoxy is characterized by its continuity with the apostolic church. (Source Encyclopedia Britannica http://www.britannica.com/EBch... ) There's been great record keeping all the way along. Jesus died 30 AD & I'm just going to quote directly our of Britannica "Christ to establish a ministry to carry out his work and that he commissioned his Apostles to do this (Matthew 28:19–20). The Apostles in turn consecrated others to assist them and to carry on the work. Supporters of the doctrine also argue that evidence indicates that the doctrine was accepted in the very early church. About ad 95 Clement, bishop of Rome, in his letter to the church in Corinth (First Letter of Clement), expressed the view that bishops succeeded the Apostles." (http://www.britannica.com/EBch... )
There are sources outside of the Orthodox GoArch.org site that confirm the way the story of Eden is taught by Christians. For Instance The New World Encyclopedia describes "In all the Abrahamic faiths... the serpent is linked with the figure of Satan, as in this New Testament verse: "That ancient serpent, who is called the Devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world…" (Revelation 12:9). As to what action is symbolized by eating the forbidden fruit, Christian theologians are generally vague. After all, it makes no sense that eating a literal physical fruit could damage what is spiritual—one's relationship with God and the integrity of his lineage. Rather, the focus is entirely on the disobedience that the deed entailed. Thus Calvin (Catholic) taught that Adam and Eve's disobedience stemmed from their pride and egoism, which turned their souls away from God." "Jesus succeeded where the first Adam failed... Jesus overcame Satan through his forty days on the Mount of Temptation thus restoring Adam, who succumbed to Satan's temptation in the Garden" His mother Mary correcting the sins of Eve. ( It's a really long read. Source http://www.newworldencyclopedi... )
I spent the 8 years after I left the JW's studying various religions, basically deprogramming myself, & because of that I really do appreciate why you would ask me to explain why I believe what I do. Sorry it's such a long answer but at least I didn't give you some line about "Jesus calling me to it" or "on Faith". Honestly I think reading Archeology Magazines & then Biblical Archeology magazine re-interested me in the Christan Faiths & I still read many of those too.
Have a Great Day!
Andrew
And how do you know that the people who wrote the bible really were inspired and wrote down the truth? You can't. You are accepting something from authority, rather than assessing it based on evidence. Again, I point to the Scientific Method.
And a quick disclaimer as this topic can be a tough one - my comments are all said for the sake of discussion, not to pick a fight.
Nikki
Wish I'd seen your reply oh last year. lol
Lets focus. My argument, which had lots of sources, was with your blog which seems to think Christianity as a whole lines up historically with the JW's claims about Christianity's history & the two don't match up all. The JW's lied to you about ancient Christian beliefs & the history of what the Early Christian Church believed.
I'm not fighting either. Just stating that as per the usual what you were told by the JW was incorrect. Therefore what you're saying about a Orthodox Christianity / Early Church, stemming from the WT propaganda, is also incorrect.











Sorry, the browser you are using is not currently supported. Disqus actively supports the following browsers:
FirefoxChromeInternet Explorer 8+Safari
This page is forcing your browser to use legacy mode, which is not compatible with Disqus. Please see our troubleshooting guide to get more information about this error.
We were unable to load Disqus. If you are a moderator please see our troubleshooting guide.
Etta
Since JWs are discouraged from reading any outside material there is no reason for them to question anything. Thus the brainwashing begins. I know from experience.
johnny
Simple no 607 no 1914. Historical evidence shows that Babylon was destroyed in 539bce and the wts agrees on that date but when the same evidence shows that Jerusalem was destroyed in 587bce they disagree because it will affect their 1914 theory that seven gentile times started in 607 and ended in 1914.
It is really sad when the wts knows the truth but continue to deny it for fear of losing their credibility.










Sorry, the browser you are using is not currently supported. Disqus actively supports the following browsers:
FirefoxChromeInternet Explorer 8+Safari
This page is forcing your browser to use legacy mode, which is not compatible with Disqus. Please see our troubleshooting guide to get more information about this error.
We were unable to load Disqus. If you are a moderator please see our troubleshooting guide.
johnny
Any one heard of third witness all i can say is that it is full of crap. Someone trying to justify the wts mistakes haha.










Sorry, the browser you are using is not currently supported. Disqus actively supports the following browsers:
FirefoxChromeInternet Explorer 8+Safari
This page is forcing your browser to use legacy mode, which is not compatible with Disqus. Please see our troubleshooting guide to get more information about this error.
We were unable to load Disqus. If you are a moderator please see our troubleshooting guide.
Teresa
ben, i understand. But why they can't competitive in sports. cause im in a league in florida, i am going to be allowed to do that. And i collect cupons for army wifves, they told me they cant not support them. My cousin gave up school to go to Dubi, everyone should be suportive, u know.
Ben
Hi Teresa, as you can see in the article, they don't let people do competitive sports. Even if they let you, the time will come when they put pressure on you to stop playing in the league, saying that it will interfere with your ministry, meeting attendance or even that it is making you too competitive. Like we have said many times, they are a cult and thus like to control a lot of aspects of people's lives.
Ben
Steven Verilenko
I prayed to Jehovah to find me a website that would help my wife see she was in a cult. I found this one 2 weeks ago and my wife, after reading through many of the article here, has told me that she is now convinced the jW are not the right religion. We look forward to reading the new articles each week and we have told others about this website. It is brilliant and you are surely blessed. Thank you.
Teeny
Hi Steven,
Thanks for the comment. It's good to hear that JWB has helped yet another soul leave this devilish cult. Keep us posted.
Regards,
Teeny
teresa
Im not a witness or anything, i am studying and i learned that yes he does hear all the prayers.
Ben
Teresa,
Prayer has never been shown to work any more than a placebo.
If Jehovah hears all prayers, then he is very cruel not to act on the ones from starving children in Africa asking for food and not to suffer, while listening to the prayers of a happy, middle aged Jehovah's Witness elder asking for financial support so he has enough petrol to get to the meetings.
Ben










Sorry, the browser you are using is not currently supported. Disqus actively supports the following browsers:
FirefoxChromeInternet Explorer 8+Safari
This page is forcing your browser to use legacy mode, which is not compatible with Disqus. Please see our troubleshooting guide to get more information about this error.
We were unable to load Disqus. If you are a moderator please see our troubleshooting guide.
Steve
If we accept their premise that chess is a game of war, then we need to ask: Isn't it better to burn off your hostilities in a harmless game than to wage a real war?
I used to be a chess coach for elementary school kids. I de-emphasized the competitive nature of the game by having them think of each other as partners (rather than opponents) trying to solve a puzzle together (with differing opinions as to the outcome: one thinks black will win while the other player thinks white will win.) Along the way I was able to convey valuable life-lessons from the game. For example: http://smmcroberts.net/chess/l.... It turns out that the chessboard can be used to inculcate some moral lessons better than a Bible (and without the baggage the Bible lugs along.) How do you suppose God's Organization on Earth could've missed that fact, and focused solely on the negative?
Another ironic thing is their picture of the chessboard. By convention chess diagrams are always shown with the white player's side on the bottom. But that would mean the board was setup wrong in this case because a light-colored square should always be on the player's extreme right. Also, putting your knight in the corner is not usually a "wise move:" but then neither is reading an Awake!










Sorry, the browser you are using is not currently supported. Disqus actively supports the following browsers:
FirefoxChromeInternet Explorer 8+Safari
This page is forcing your browser to use legacy mode, which is not compatible with Disqus. Please see our troubleshooting guide to get more information about this error.
We were unable to load Disqus. If you are a moderator please see our troubleshooting guide.
Phillip Elliott
Teeny Ben: Congratulations on leaving the JWs...That's a first great step. My grandmother got me involved with Watchtower when I was in high school. I went along because I was searching for something different than Protestantism...I even spent some time with VonDonikan and extra terrestrial BS. Anything to rattle my folks. I met someone in the Coast Guard in my early 20s who helped me escape that misery and introduced me to the freedom I found in John 3:16. (Even Protestants and Caholics can be chained to guilt instead of being freed by Love) I got on your Blog because I thought I could help others in the same way.
I think you have a really good opportunity that you are wasting. Writing articles like "God is a Liar" including a woman in a devil suit doesn't do much but release your anger. Why not use your deeper knowledge of the poison in JW doctrine to help others trapped in that faith. Instead, your blog just makes people angry.. JWs...ex JW and Christians too...what's the point? When people find out you are an atheist they dismiss your essay as an attack piece. The result is you appear insincere and no one benefits from your experiences. You have an exemplary writing talent...especially seen in your last comment to me. I expect you find many positive uses for it.
I don't have definitive proof for either creation or evolution. Asking the question "which came first the DNA that makes the cell or the cell that makes the DNA?" won't be answered until the veil is (or isn't) drawn back. Its not a very big issue with me anyway. Helping others on the wide road to think about what they believe is.
Thank you for a stimulating exchange...All the best to you (if any of this seems "preachy"...forgive me
I can't help myself sometimes :)
Phillip J Elliott
Jacob
The muslims believe in Jesus and they also believe He was the Son of God and that He was resurrected...does that make them Christians too? Just because people worship Someone they call Jesus doesn't make them Christians.
Ben
Hi Jacob/Phillip (You're the same person, or share the same IP address...)
Creation is not evidence of God. You'd have to prove everything had been created, which you can't. You're basically saying that "evolution is wrong, therfore God must have done it!". Replace God with "gorilla eating spaceworm" and you'll see that the argument is empty.
There is no evidence whatsoever to show that life was created as told in the bible account. We have mountains of evidence that life came from simple celled lifeforms and evolved over a long long time. Don't take my word for it - go to a museum or read a scientific text book. Go examine the evidence for yourself. That's the difference between you and I here - your position requires faith and mine does not. I have evidence.
Let me concede the point to you for a moment in order to make a further point. Even if you could prove that a supernatural being, or god, had created everything, you'd still have all your work ahead of you. You'd still need to prove that it was YOUR god and that he could hear prayers, or that he really cared about what sexual acts you can carry out or not.
When someone says something extraordinary, that person needs to provide evidence. So, if I was to say that we evolved, I'd need to provide evidence. There is tons of evidence - so much so, in fact, that we KNOW evolution is as true as the fact Earth orbits the sun. It isn't a faith based position at all.
Also, we are all 'nogodians' when it comes to Thor, Ra, Vishnu, etc. I just go one god further than you.
My comment is getting long so I will close off by saying that how life evolved and how the universe began are two separate things and you shouldn't mix the two scientific theories ('theory' said with the scientific definition, not as in the "its only a theory" meaning). If you think it is highly unlikely that life could have evolved, or the universe came to exist through a big bang, consider how much MORE unlikely a supernatural god is - a being that would have to be infinitely more complex than the universe itself in order to create it. Saying god created the universe isn't an answer - it raises far more questions than it answers and makes the whole thing a lot more complicated than it needs to be. You can't say "the universe is too complex to have arisen by itself, so god must exist" and then not say that god him/itself isn't equally, if not more, complex and therefore the odds of him existing isn't also very unlikely.
Cheers for commenting on JWB - feel free to continue doing so, but I won't be able to carry on the creation v evolution debate with you unless you provide REAL evidence.
Ben
Phillip Elliott
Ben...What evidence do we have that God exists..His creation of course...He designed and made a mind like yours to love, to think, to believe, to hope. “For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse”.
I won't argue Christian vs Witness doctrine with you because you think both are bogus. But Ben, you
must admit that you have a faith and a religion as well. You are a Nogodian.
Your Big Bang is my “in the beginning” Evolution is your creation story “let there be” is mine. Making it by being good is your testimony, God’s free sacrificial gift is mine. And your fervor to show me your point of view is equal to the fervor I have to share with you. In fact you are very religious!
We are ALL people of faith in on thing or another.
But, there is only one truth. Your ‘no god, no meaning, no future truth and mine. There is no proof that I could give aside from the miracle of your existance that God exists and if He exists he has some plan for you beside dust in a grave. No preaching here...just a choice we all make and while we live, one we can change.
PS are you teeny as well as Ben?
Teeny
Hi Phillip,
I am Teeny and Ben is, well, Ben. We're very good friends and were lucky enough to have left the Jehovah's Witnesses together. If I didn't have his friendship at the time, I don't know what would have happened. Leaving a cult is difficult at the best of times, so thank God I had Ben.
Anyway, I know Ben is eager to answer your comment Phillip, or should I call you Jacob?
Have a good one.
PS. While you're at it, take a look at the reason both Ben and I became Atheists. Visit my other blog, www.AtheistsWeekly.com. It's by no means finished, but I think you'll get the point as to why we are "Nogodians". Isn't that an Armenian surname?
Kind regards,
Teeny
Jacob
Jehovah Witnesses are not Christians. They believe Jesus is an angel..not God, They don't believe in a soul, or in hell or even in heaven for anyone except the 144,000. they don't believe that Jesus died on a cross or that he was resurrected from the dead. But one of the few things that both JWs and Christians believe in is the coming Armageddon and a coming new and perfect world. Have Christians stopped paying mortgages to go homeless...I think not.. Have Christians ended retirement accounts..of course not ....for no one knows the day and the hour of His coming. We are told to occupy (occupation) until He comes. So let's not lay this blistering denuciation on the JWs that she should behave differently than anyone else in these end times. As for poor Anna
she is still trying to please God with her good works and trying to earn her place in heaven because someone (apparently not you) has failed to introduce her to the gospel message. Write her!
Ben
Hi Jacob,
Thanks for your comment, but you are mistaken. Jehovah's Witnesses believe in Jesus, and that he was resurrected. That makes them Christians, as in followers of Christ... Of course, there are differences in belief systems from religion to religion, but they are still Christians.
As for the rest of your comment, how do you know that what you believe is true? You have no evidence for your beliefs whatsoever (or prove me wrong and present some). At the end of the day you believe one set of nonsense and Jehovah's Witnesses another for the same reasons with equal amounts of evidence - zero.
Ben










Sorry, the browser you are using is not currently supported. Disqus actively supports the following browsers:
FirefoxChromeInternet Explorer 8+Safari
This page is forcing your browser to use legacy mode, which is not compatible with Disqus. Please see our troubleshooting guide to get more information about this error.
We were unable to load Disqus. If you are a moderator please see our troubleshooting guide.
Xavier
Just wondering, Ben, you don't believe in religion and you believe in evidence right?
Andrew
Hi Xavier, what do you mean 'believe in religion'? I believe religion exists, however some religious claims about supernatural things I do not accept at the moment because no evidence has been presented to prove them, and I can not test those claims. I'll believe anything once solid evidence is presented, but as Carl Sagan said, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
Number6
Jekyl, I guess I'm "on of dos wit inspired talks bt wt basis frm d devil.sayin Jehovah is a liar ". It's a good job I'm fluent in JarJarBinksian.
Here's a few more examples from God's book that show God tell's porkies, and I'll be unusually honest for an apostate by fully disclosing these are all cut and pasted from http://skepticsannotatedbible....
1 Kings 22:23
Now, therefore, behold, the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets, and the Lord hath spoken evil concerning thee.
2 Chronicles 18:22
Now therefore, behold, the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets.
Jeremiah 4:10
Ah, Lord GOD! surely thou hast greatly deceived this people.
Jeremiah 20:7
O Lord, thou hast deceived me, and I was deceived.
Ezekiel 14:9
And if a prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the Lord have deceived that prophet.
2 Thessalonians 2:11
For this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie.
PS: Thanks, Teeny. Satan and the gang say hi, btw ]:->
Andrew
Well, Number6, I am glad SOMEONE could understand that gobbledegook! You must be inspired...
Jekyl
Wel d bible warns of dos wit inspired talks bt wt basis frm d devil.sayin Jehovah is a liar automatically fulfils dis bible prophesy of inspired false teachins. Im really sory u jus hv to fulfil such a condemnation n u
Teeny
Hi Jekyl,
Did you know that the Dictionary, and not the Bible, is the best-selling book? I advise you buy one.
Cheers,
Teeny
Ben
Jekyl, you say we lie and inspire false teaching - well, prove it. The JWB promise stands - provide evidence that we have lied about anything on this blog and we will retract it. To date, no Jehovah's Witness has taken us up on the offer, which kind of tells the story all by itself.
Regards,
Ben
Phillip Elliott
Here is one last verse to consider...Col 3:18
And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
The people Paul is writing to are not "dead" Is he lying to us too?
Phillip Elliott
Teeny, In your essay I think I can assume you are not a Jehovah Witness and because you are so adiment in you claim that God is a liar it appears that you could not be a member of any religious group whether it be main stream or cultic sect. What's left is a man who would rather dismiss God as a liar and His plan of salvation...foolish.
Ben, you apparently want to reject the free gift of Life God offers you want to pay for your own crimes.
That is your decision to make and many others make the same one " Wide is the road" crowded with people who feel just like you. All God requires is that "Whoseoever calleth upon the name of the Lord shall be saved" No hoops, just faith. But 'many will stubbornly resist and thus be lost by their own fault"
Matthew 18:22-23 describes your perspectively perfectly:(22) For indeed Jews ask for signs and Greeks search for wisdom; (23) but we preach Christ crucified, to Jews a stumbling block and to Gentiles foolishness, ...Does that sound like you?
As for being a liar:
Numbers 23:19 God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: has he said, and shall he not do it? or has he spoken, and shall he not make it good? Truth is the "day" could very well mean the 24 hour day that Adam suffered spiritual death or it could very well mean the 1000 year= day in 2 peter 3:8
Your narrow legalistic focus of the Genesis verse is wrong...God does not lie any more than saying He lied when he tells us of dragons in Revelation, Seed = Gods word in John or 4 horseman riding the earth...These are all symbolic too...Is God lying here too?
Teeny and Ben..Dismissing God does not make Him go away. Rejecting His plan for Life doesn't change it
If you are right it won't make any difference...If I am right it makes all the difference in the world.
best regards to you too,
Phil
Ben
Hi Phillip,
Technically, I don't believe in god, so I am wrong to dismiss him as a liar. I have dismissed God altogether. If he doesn't exist, he can't lie.
I will believe absolutely anything, no matter how hard it is to accept, if someone presents conclusive evidence. There is no evidence for the existence of god. Then, even if god existed, I wouldn't want to worship such a cruel, capricious and vile being anyway. As for paying for my sins, I had no choice in the matter as I was born in sin! Some loving arrangement. That someone else can take responsibility for crimes I commit and had no choice in committing? Don't you see how immoral scapegoating is?
Faith isn't a virtue. Faith is believing anything you want despite evidence that proves you wrong. Not only is this stupid, but it is also dangerous. I could believe absolutely ANYTHING, like there is an invisible pink flying unicorn that watches over me. You can't prove me wrong, and by my saying I have faith it doesn't prove anything. Just like a Hindu saying to you they have faith wouldn't go an inch towards you accepting their beliefs.
You said, "If you are right it won’t make any difference … If I am right it makes all the difference in the world." What a cowards way out, worshiping god just to save your own ass in case its true! And of course it makes a difference. Religion is an evil blight on this planet that needs to be eradicated. That's why people like us speak up against it! We can't just let religionists get on with it because too many people get hurt!
We've heard all the religious arguments before. Until you can provide evidence to back up your claims, they all mean nothing.
Ben
Phillip Elliott
Jehovah Witnesses believe that when you're dead, you're dead. Nothing remains...no spirit ..no soul...nothing. They believe that "good" folks will be recreated from nothing later on to enjoy life in their "new kingdom" So, just like you, JWs can only focus on physical death not spiritual death. They are wrong of course. God made us a trinity...body, soul, and spirit. Later in scripture we are told: The soul that sinneth shall die.... God sees the eternal consequences of sin not just the physical ones. From God's perspective Adam's "offense' made him dead to Him...instantly! It took the sacrifice of God Himself, in Christ, to bring Adam and the rest of us back into a living relationship with God.
God doesn't lie, but men can stubbornly resist and hold to a point of view that leave them dead without the Hope that God offers.
Ben
I was enjoying your comment, Phillip, right up to the time you started preaching. I still don't understand why people like you can have a go at other religions and call them wrong but then when it comes to your own religion, you can't see the same points. God did lie - it's in the bible. Read the article. It's clear. We didn't twist it or make it up. You can read it yourself. Like we've said before, to make God out not to have lied, you have to add symbolism and say things like "he was dead to God" or "he died spiritually," though the bible doesn't say that at all.
Regards,
Ben
roberto
God DID NOT lie. ... Did Adam and Eve die within a day of eating the forbidden fruit? Adam left the Garden of Eden and lived for many years, fathering children until he reached the ripe old age of 930! (Genesis 5:5). We see clearly that God lied.......
They died spiritually at the moment of disobeying God. This is why Jesus said You Must BE Born again. We are all now born spiritually dead, until we accept christ and are Born again.
Ben
Hi Roberto.
I see your point, but that isn't what the bible says. No where does it say in the Genesis account that they died spiritually. God says that in the day they eat of the fruit they will positively die. Well, they positively didn't, did they? The only way to get around this is to have to jump through hoops and add little bits like you are doing, saying that it was 'symbolic' or 'spiritual' death.
The other bit about accepting Jesus... the whole idea is immoral. Hear me out a second - if I commit a crime, would it be fair for you to receive the sentence? No, of course not! Adam sinned, and all of us have to suffer for it? That isn't loving. If you liked me, loved me, you might choose to serve my time or die in my place, but you could never take away my responsibility for what I did, just as it isn't Jesus place to forgive us all on God's behalf for what Adam did, right? So we are born in sin, commanded to be perfect... it just isn't fair and no loving God would have things in such a way.
Also, if Jesus paid the ransom, why haven't we been freed from sin yet? It's like paying a kidnapper money and then he doesn't release the captive. He just lets you make a phone call instead whenever you want to talk to your loved one.
Regards,
Ben










Sorry, the browser you are using is not currently supported. Disqus actively supports the following browsers:
FirefoxChromeInternet Explorer 8+Safari
This page is forcing your browser to use legacy mode, which is not compatible with Disqus. Please see our troubleshooting guide to get more information about this error.
We were unable to load Disqus. If you are a moderator please see our troubleshooting guide.
Shabba
Teeny, off subject i know but i wondered if you had the pleasure of dealing with Elder Jonathen in the Cy congo? Also a 'special' pioneer aka on the payroll aka paid clergy of the cult
David
The difference between your/the worlds beliefs and Jehovahs Witnesses is that death is a temporary thing. The life in this system is nothing to hold on to. Nothing to bring back to mind. The "real life" is in that new system. The world will spend days, months, even years grieving the loss of their loved one. Jehovahs Witnesses grieve too but they know the truth about the dead, and the truth about the future. They are confident they will see that loved one again. They dont have empty hope like those in the world.
Steve
David,
I was a JW, and now I am very much "in the world." My brother died two weeks ago (also an ex-JW.) So your comments are particularly rankling to me at the moment.
I am so glad that my brother didn't have a Witness funeral, in which his family and friends would've sat -- seething and helpless -- while the Watchtower's canned speech crassly made use of his death to sell their religion to a reluctantly captive audience.
Instead, after a non-denominational "minister" said a few generic words of comfort for those of a religious bent, I got up and told stories about my brother and the crazy things we did, the good times we spent together, and how I loved him. People laughed, and people wept, but they didn't "get a witness" about a cult's beliefs: they witnessed an unshackled LIFE, and we shared memories of that life without cheapening it by using it for our own agenda as at a Witness funeral.
It's ignorant of you to represent "the world" as having one belief about death, or that the Witnesses are the only ones who think that "death is a temporary thing." I don't think that myself, but there are millions (probably billions) of non-Witnesses who do.
Jehovah's Witnesses have no more clue about the future or what happens after death than anyone else. No one knows more about the unknowable than anyone else. To claim that you DO know more about the unknowable than anyone else is the height of arrogance and ignorance.
The Witness "resurrection" is actually the emptiest hope of all: the person is never resurrected; a new body is given the memories of someone who died. That new body+memories is NOT the person that died -- no more than a robot or clone injected with those memories would be. On this, please read: http://smmcroberts.net/blog/yo...
David, I hope you don't die as a Witness. It's too sad to think of someone's life reduced to slavery -- made use of by their masters even after death, so that a generic "talk" could sum them up as well as any other Witness.
Teeny
I am truly sorry for your loss Steve.
josue
Has anyone ever seen proof of evolution?
Has anyone ever seen Proof that there is no god ?
believing in god is a insurance for your soul and is free nothing to loose
and a heaven to gain.
Caroline Dyson
Ultimately all religion is selfish, whether it be the promise of Paradise, Heaven on Earth, Resurrection et all.
Andrew
1. Yes, we have proof of evolution.
2. I don't need to disprove god any more than you need to disprove Unicorns. It's up to you to prove god exists.
Spankfisj
Andrew, the JW's are taught to treat everyone in "the world" in the same haughty, disparaging way. I don't think it unfair to do the same to them. They claim "unity", so I don't think it's wrong to tar them all with the same brush. Don't you remember being told "the way you act reflects on the rest of Jehovah's people"? I don't really care if I meet a "nice" witness, they are all the same.
Andrew
Hi, thanks for commenting. I hear what you are saying, but my point is simply that it is religion that makes those people do bad things.
Spankfish
Patricia, I really don't remember you attending my grandmothers funeral, so how you can say it wasn't one big opportunity for a witness and not about my grandma I don't know. And clearly you don't know much about your own religion, which is typical for witnesses, who only get their information for 1 source.
Here's another source for you to read.
http://www.katu.com/news/local...
Then read this one
www.silentlambs.org
Andrew
The murder was horrific, but he didn't do it because of JW policies. I don't think it fair to judge a whole group based on the actions of one person. I think there are some very nice and loving individual JWs. My problem is when those good people do bad things BECAUSE of their religion, like shunning or the blood transfusion stuff.
Patricia Kirschling
I actually am using this outline to write my father's funeral talk. My mother passed in 2001, she was not a witness, I was, and the brother gave a BEAUTIFUL talk. This is a lie that they do not
remember the deceased. If the deceased was a witness, they dedicated their whole life to
Jehovah, so it makes sense that the brother giving the talk would make their service to Jehovah a big part of their eulogy. Stop spreading your disgusting lies about a people who are honest, kind, caring, faithful to their mates, have extremely high morals and values.
Number6
"Stop spreading your disgusting lies about a people who are honest, kind, caring, faithful to their mates, have extremely high morals and values."
Like this one? Eight recently self-appointed governing members of a book/property company say their books explain what a profoundly misunderstood middle-eastern god really meant to make men write in a hand-picked collection of 2000+ year-old books - but 7,000,000,000+ men, women and children don't believe them so they all deserve to die.
That, Patricia, is a disgusting lie the JWs are told to spread by the WTS. When you leave your cult you can stop pretending you're 'spreading the good news'.
Andrew
1. It isn't a lie. The article clearly gives the outline so you can see for yourself.
2. JW's divorce rate is no better than any other religious group - The U.S. Religious Landscape Survey 2008 by The Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life reported in April 2008 that the Witness rate of 14% was slightly above the U.S. average of 12%. So, some pie on your face there, Patricia. See. I even used a reference so you can go look it up for yourself.
3. Is it an extremely high moral value to shun family members who do not believe the same as you do? What about not reporting child abuse unless there are two witnesses to it? What about letting children die rather than give them blood? Moral, eh! Yeah... sure. Because not warning parents of a child molester who then re-offends is REALLY moral. Want a reference again? Go Google 'Candace Conti".
See, you come on here ranting and raving, calling us liars, yet provide no sources or evidence for your claims, and indeed, as I have shown, have no idea what on earth you are talking about. Don't you think that even SOME criticism of JWs could be accurate? We'll retract anything on JWB that is a lie - all you have to do is provide evidence. That is extremely fair, in my opinion.
Spankfish
My grandmothers funeral this year was pretty much like yours Number6. I was the eldest grandson and I asked if I could say a few words about her, but they turned me down. My dad's youngest Elder brother said no until I rang him myself and he backed down as long as "It was only a few minutes at the crematorium not the KH, and I didn't make it "unsuitable"". What they thought I would say at my 94 year old grandmothers funeral, I have no idea. My wife who's a born Muslim said the talk at the KH was so dull as they hardly talked about my Nan. She said I'd given more of an idea of her personality and life in my few words that the elder did in 30 mins.
As I always tell my family that are still Witnesses (I've been out for 15 years):
"Lets just say you are right, when the great tribulation comes, and everyone is turning on the so called "God's People", I'll be the one at the front assisting everyone by bringing them to your house and making sure you end up against the wall with a blindfold on."
Always goes down well at family events to which I'm no longer invited.
Who cares
Why you wasting your time on this.""losers',,,,,,
Have you ever been to a catholic funeral.
On your Knees, stand up, on your knees, stand up...whaling,,waa waa waa moms dead ohh soo young,,, never to see her again,,,,no hope, just agony,,,,,,,,oh well.."....get a job....grow up...ohh theres the contribution basket in my face"third time today" better put money so priest can get laid........
Andrew
We're not wasting our time. Just because there is more than one bad organisation on the planet, doesn't mean I need to dedicate equal time to all of them. I focus on the ones I know best.
On a second note, I also completely hate the evils that the Catholic church and the vile Pope is responsible for and speak out about them too.
lauren
HOW DARE YOU! would you dare MOCK someone of islamic faith? i once was a jw but left wen i was younger to be "in the world", my mother recently died of cancer & she was a practising jw & she died much to early because of this worlds pollutants. I am going to go back to the faith, i never stopped believing, not with all that is happening in this dispicable world & no i am not brainwashed, you will see wen religions fail, armys take over & misuse their powers, governments crumble, money will no longer be useful & the streets will be rioting for the chaos that has happened.
Also, jehovahs wittnesses do not take any money for doing a service for the dead (like @ my mums) if anyone wants to donate money they are welcome but not forced, & the deceased's service is done how they or their family wanted & if they want 2 carck a joke they wont be killed by jehovah for it.
I think you are ill educated in this matter & therefore should refrain from opening ones mouth before putting said brain in2 gear.
Dominique
Lauren dats a nice decision. Jehovah to strengthen your faith.
Number6
Thanks, Teeny, that explains a lot.
When my 'worldly' grandmother died, my uncle - also 'worldy' - was so upset he asked my JW Elder father to organize the funeral, obviously expecting to get some semblance of a 'religious' service. You can guess how that went.
My father asked the local PO to hold the service, which he did. And what a shocker it was.
Everyone present was 'wordly' - family, elderly friends, colleagues - except for my parents and us dragged-up-in-the-troof chldren. We were easy to spot because everyone else had worn traditional black out of respect, we wore our regular Sunday meeting clothes, complete with multicoloured ties, etc... just like my father told us to. He explained that it wasn't a sad occasion because "Nan has a chance of being resurrected now"...
Just a couple of minutes into the service was when all the non-JWs began to realise this was unlike any funeral talk they'd ever heard. This was because Brother PO had *already* stopped talking about my grandmother and was well into full-on recruitment-drive-for-the-cult mode.
This was years ago, but I'll never forget the bit where Brother PO told the incredulous grievers that my grandmother wouldn't be going to heaven, oh no, she had an earthly hope, blah blah.
I'd already been to a few funerals (all JWs) but this was the first time I (and I imagine everyone else there) had heard booing, hissing and cries of 'shame!' during the talk. This was also the politest booing I've ever heard too.
I squirmed in my seat for the rest of the service, along with my older brothers (all DFd or DAd now), while my parents seemed completely oblivious as did Brother PO who ignored the booing and soldiered on. Bless.
After that fiasco we went to the wake where we topped it all off by refusing to join in the toast.
Anyway, thanks again, Teeny.
PS for 'worldly' readers:
Worldy = Normal
JW = MLM Cult Member
Elder = MLM Cult Leader
PO = Higher-up MLM Cult Leader with more badges and a company car.
DFd/DAd = Disfellowshipped/Disassociated = Fired/Resigned = Escaped.
Andrew
Mock someone of Islamic faith!? No, I wouldn't DREAM of it! After all, why would I insult silly beliefs and risk being attacked or killed by one of the most disgusting and violent religions in the world?
Lauren, why is religion outside the realm of criticism and mockery? We can do it for politics and every other subject. Why do you get a 'get out of jail free' card? If JWs are the 'Truth' it will stand up to any criticism.
I don't think we have said in this post that JWs take money for doing a service - I agree, they don't do that, so I don't know why you've got your knickers in a twist. Try reading what we actually wrote. You religious folk are all the same. Too quick to defend your position by attacking the opposition, rather than their arguments, which says it all!
lauren
you also did not obviously read what i wrote as i am not actually a jehovah's wittness, i am just tired of everyone moaning or critising religions or people in general....there are far more important things to be worried about!
Andrew
Lauren,
I disagree - religion causes more harm than good and everyone should fight against it. Why does religion get a free pass?
Teeny
Hi Lauren,
I agree with you - by your above comment, it's clear that you're not brainwashed.
Thanks for commenting.
I too don't know how anyone can continue living in this "dispicable world", where spelling and grammar are sent to die a slow death.
I'll tell you what - If I find an appropriate cave to live in, would you be willing to join me?
Love,
Jaymes "Teeny Pyjamas" Payten
Herbert
Those who believe in Noah's flood do not believe in the Babylonian text "The Epic of Gilgamesh", even though it was written hundreds of years earlier and parallels the bible's stories of creation, the Garden and Noah's flood.
It is obvious the Jewish writers, like many civilizations, adapted earlier myths to fit their own theology.
Sarah
Hi, Ben! :)
I'm a non-denominational Christian. I understand from reading your blog that you have denounced the JW beliefs, but why don't you believe the story of Noah? Did you denounce the Bible, too? I don't mean to be rude in my questions; I'm just asking out of sincere curiosity.
Thanks! :)
Sarah
Ben
Hi Sarah,
Thanks for the comment and question. No, I don't believe the story of Noah because all the evidence we have shows that it couldn't possibly have occurred. I'll believe anything, no matter how crazy, if I am presented with proper evidence. To believe the flood happened, you'd have to ignore the facts of evolution, basic geology and even put aside common sense - could two of every species on Earth have fit into a boat? Of course not!
I am not saying that there aren't interesting and worthy bits in the bible, but that I don't believe it is inspired, it is not an eternal book, it has mistakes and contradictions in it and it is scientifically inaccurate a lot of the time. Unfortunately I find that most people have already decided the bible is true and accept science and fact only if it is in line with the Bible, rather than seeing the evidence shows the bible for what it is - a man made book, full of mistakes.
Regards,
Ben
steven
remember when noah was building the ark and every one around him would tease him and bad mouth him,thay would laugh and spit on him as he tred to warn them of the distruction that was to come and yet dispite of all how thought that he was crazy we continued to try and warn the people to save there lives.........you have ben warned ,therefor your future lyes in your choice you deside to make...its not to late brother dont be left out side when JEHOVAH slams the dore shut....
Kw
Is it just me, or are all of these cult members Illiterate? I was crying laughing not only at their distorted thinking, but more at their pure lack of ability to spell the tough words like door (dore)...LMAO
Dominique
Go tell far and wide that the paradise is near and soon all its blessings will be hear. Steven atleast they won't say they did not hear the goodnews. Satan the devil has put it into the heart of men to rebel against God. Lets continue to be wise and make his heart rejoice with that, we will not only be doing the will of Jehovah but will be making reply to the one taunting our creator, JEHOVAH
Andrew
We aren't taunting Jehovah because we don't think he exists. Can't taunt something that doesn't exist. We are taunting those who do believe he exists.
LSSMC
"To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord" 2nd Cor:5:8 will never be quoted at a JW funeral, for they don't believe that your soul returns to the Creator at death. There is no rejoicing for your loved one being reunited with lost loved ones as Christianity proclaims.
Ben
Hi Steven,
Thanks for your comment.
I see what point you are trying to make, but all the scientific evidence we have proves conclusively that the flood of Noah never actually happened. We don't really need a lot of science to show that the flood is bogus. Just think of how impossible it is for animals to have traveled from around the globe to get to the arc, then squeeze in with the hundreds of thousands (minimum) of other animals. Still, if you do have evidence, please let us know. You'd be the first person in history to find some.
Do you understand that your comment only goes to prove that you are in a cult? Before you ignore what I am saying, please do at least hear me out here. What does it mean that, "Jehovah slams the door shut"? It means I will die, yes? I will be killed simply for having a difference of opinion - that isn't loving, you know! Yet you have been conditioned to think that this immoral act is actually righteous. I am not a murderer, rapist, thief, etc - just because I can't believe Jehovah's Witnesses are the true religion means I should get the death penalty?
Regards,
Ben Agag
Dominique
Ben is so obvious u are an atheist. Atleast, some christendom believe that Noah did built an ark and there was flood.
Andrew
Dominique, yes of course I am an atheist, and will be until someone provides evidence for a god. Some Christians believe that the flood was real. I agree that some people believe it. So what? Some people think that the prophet Mohammed rode a flying horse called Buraq, but it doesn't make it true.










Sorry, the browser you are using is not currently supported. Disqus actively supports the following browsers:
FirefoxChromeInternet Explorer 8+Safari
This page is forcing your browser to use legacy mode, which is not compatible with Disqus. Please see our troubleshooting guide to get more information about this error.
We were unable to load Disqus. If you are a moderator please see our troubleshooting guide.
Teresa
Your parents should love you regardless that your not a jw anymore. Not to be personal or anything, are you the only child? if you are your parents know in their hearts they will love u. My friend Tara, her family is catholic and she is a witnesss now but the point i'm trying to say that her family accepts her still. i hope this helps. may god bless you.
Ben
Hi Teresa,
My case isn't unique. Jehovah's Witnesses are actively encouraged (even ordered) to shun people. That's my point. You don't want to be involved with such people who will disown and shun their own family. The family of your friend Tara are not Jehovah's Witnesses. Look online - you'll find thousands of stories of ex-JWs being shunned by their family - there are even recovery and support forums as it happens so often.
Ben









Sorry, the browser you are using is not currently supported. Disqus actively supports the following browsers:
FirefoxChromeInternet Explorer 8+Safari
This page is forcing your browser to use legacy mode, which is not compatible with Disqus. Please see our troubleshooting guide to get more information about this error.
We were unable to load Disqus. If you are a moderator please see our troubleshooting guide.
jonathan
The jehovah witness cult are preaching the wrong and a false gospel and putting their faith in false jesus .Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. jesus is God the son,jehovah witnesses place their faith in a false jesus which equals faith in a made up jesus that you guys have made which is wrong. the thruth is god the father god the son and god the holy spirit are one .you preach the false gospel and the wrong jesus which is not of the bible.repent and put your faith in the true jesus of the bible.
Ben
Hi Jonathan,
You say that Jehovah's Witnesses got it all wrong, but don't explain how you have gained ultimate knowledge yourself. It all comes down to faith, right? Jehovah's Witnesses have faith. Muslims have faith. Pentecostals have faith. Anglicans have faith. Sikhs have faith. You have faith. As you can see, faith has no bearing on whether something is true or not. It isn't a virtue, then, is it?
Your comment is also written as if you think we believe what Jehovah's Witnesses preach... let me clarify that we denounce the Jehovah's Witnesses and what they preach and the way they control their members.
Regards,
Ben









Sorry, the browser you are using is not currently supported. Disqus actively supports the following browsers:
FirefoxChromeInternet Explorer 8+Safari
This page is forcing your browser to use legacy mode, which is not compatible with Disqus. Please see our troubleshooting guide to get more information about this error.
We were unable to load Disqus. If you are a moderator please see our troubleshooting guide.
Larry MacTavish
It is my understanding the Jehova Witness is a false Gospel.
They do not believe in being born again as Jesus taught or John 8: 32.










Sorry, the browser you are using is not currently supported. Disqus actively supports the following browsers:
FirefoxChromeInternet Explorer 8+Safari
This page is forcing your browser to use legacy mode, which is not compatible with Disqus. Please see our troubleshooting guide to get more information about this error.
We were unable to load Disqus. If you are a moderator please see our troubleshooting guide.
MEGAN
You do realize that chirstmas is so pagan? The catholic Leaders of the time wanted to get the Pagans who celebrate the winter solctice or " birth of the sun" into there fold so they created christmas to do that. I am a new Witness just learning but I was a Wiccan Before I became a Witness, and I have been Catholic (taught at a catholic school for 7 years) and I have been Lutheran, Baptist and Druid. And I must say Being a Witness is the first time I have ever felt Like I understand, it makes sense. You may feel its a "Cult" when in reality its a way of life that people can choose to follow or not. No one holds you Prisoner or tells you, you cant leave, or kills you when you do leave. So how can it be a cult? Besides true Pagans (Wiccan, druids..etc) Dont Celebrate Christmas they Celebrate Winter Solstice, the shortest day of the year. Please before you rip apart things you do not know do your research.
Ben
Hi Megan and welcome to Jehovah's Witness Blog. Thanks for commenting!
If you are new to the Jehovah's Witnesses, it is very likely that you haven't yet been exposed to the cult side. A baptized Jehovah's Witness is NOT free to leave them at any time. There are strict rules in place that if someone leaves the "Truth", other JWs are not allowed to even greet them. If you, as a baptized Witness, announced today that you were leaving the religion, all of your JW so-called friends would shun you. My own mother, for example, disowned me simply because I left - because I simply have a different opinion to her.
Also, you must recognize that they discourage any research into their religion unless it is with their own literature? Let me give you one example that you should research and why it is so important.
How do you know that Jehovah's Witnesses are the right religion? After faith and good works, which many religions claim, it comes down to the "Prophecy of Seventy Weeks" which basically is a mathematical game that starts at 607 BCE when Jerusalem got destroyed and ends in 1919 when Jesus apparently selected the JWs as his chosen people. Do feel free to ask your study conductor or elders to explain it to you.
The thing is, no one - and I mean no one - except the JWs say that Jerusalem was destroyed in 607 BCE, meaning that they can't possibly have been chosen in 1919. This test should serve to answer to you whether they should be trusted or not - by researching in independent sources (not Watchtower literature as that would be like trusting a holiday brochure - of COURSE they'll say it was 607 because they need it to be) when Jerusalem was destroyed.
Regards,
Ben
Ferocious
You should be proud to know you are obeying God by not celebrating the pagan side of Christmas. I am young as a Jehovah Witness and i don't celebrate Christmas and i have never believed in Santa and i assure you i turned out fine. Why don't you create your own celebration like my family did, we give eachother presents and call it "Surprise Day". My grandmother created it because she felt bad that her children would go back to school from break and not have stories
about the gifts they received. We don't have to celebrate on the 25th but when everyone is off work.
Teeny
Hi Ferocious and thanks for the comment.
Can I tell you how hypocritical that sounds? Well, I just have, haven't I? If you want to receive gifts near the 25th December, why not just receive them on the 25th?
I suppose it's because you say "it's a pagan holiday", right? If you're married, or going to be in the future, I have a sneaky suspicion that you'll be wearing a white wedding dress. Well, that's also pagan, so why do it? Why does the Watchtower, Bible and Tract Society pick and choose what is pagan and what isn't?
You need to look into this a little bit. Look into the history of your religion, but try doing some research away from the Proclaimers Book. Let me know what you find.
Cheers and a Happy New Year to you!
Teeny
Bella
How is a white wedding Pagan? It simply originated out of tradition because Queen Victoria decided to wear white at her wedding & it sparked a trend.










Sorry, the browser you are using is not currently supported. Disqus actively supports the following browsers:
FirefoxChromeInternet Explorer 8+Safari
This page is forcing your browser to use legacy mode, which is not compatible with Disqus. Please see our troubleshooting guide to get more information about this error.
We were unable to load Disqus. If you are a moderator please see our troubleshooting guide.
Teresa
If megan dosen't want to answer my questions who voultneer to answer them please. Ben- I am not really studying cause i'm working alot and working at the gym. Can you answer my questions from my letters, or somone else, im curious........ and Nobody else told me what happens if you can't attend the meetings or conventions... Anbody please answer them i will be happy and glad if you do. so again anybody voulteer PLEASE WRITE BACK ANYBODY WITH ANSWERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THANK YOU VERY MUCH..... ENJOY UR PRESIDENT'S DAY ALL
Teresa
Look Ben MEGAN hasnt my questions yet
Ben
Hi Teresa,
Let's be fair - maybe Megan simply hasn't checked JWB again.
Most JWs will have answers about having faith, or try to give you some explanation for things. You have to ask YOURSELF whether there is ANY excuse for letting a child die when you have the ability to help him/her live? The JWs will say some excuses from the bible about the blood issue, but personally any religion or god that would have me let a child die does not deserve my time or worship.
There are plenty of other examples to think of.
And remember that in general, in life, when someone says something to you, be skeptical. Where is their real evidence? I'll believe anything, if there is evidence for it, and there is no evidence for the existence of God and plenty of evidence that proves the bible is full of mistakes. That Jehovah's Witnesses are a cult - the evidence is through the charts!
Ben
Teresa
Hi MEGAN,
How come you didn't answer my questions its February 10th, 2012 nothing from you. So i'll ask my questions again. So when you do the field service how do u try to convince people-
1. They can't vote
2. Can't put there hand over heart
3. Can't celebrate mothers day
4. cannot accept blood tranfusions
5. that your religion is true
6. Try to convert people (me)
THERE MANY OF THOSE. PLEASE ANSWER MEGAN!
Teresa
Teeny, i might see her Wednesday so please write them simple so i can write them and give to her to answer.
teresa
I kinda agree with ben
Teresa
Hi megan, my name is Teresa. How are you? How many hours you have to try to convince peole that (a) you can't vote (b) can't support the military and navy. (c) belive that my religion is not true and throw everything i learned in religion school away and upset my family. I am studying right now, but my mind not clear to join, but letting u know now i will still vote and support my cousin who in Dubi right now, and i can't even attend your meetings or conventions in order to get baptized. My relationship with jesus christ is not well, so i dont know what im doing is right. but i know ben to you is not. but i am not 1,000000% sure. please write back Megan
looking foward from hearing from u.
From,
Teresa
Teeny
Hi Teresa,
Is that the email you'll be sending the Jehovah's Witness that is studying with you? If it is, please ask her to take a look at this website. She'll see your comments and our replies, but that doesn't matter. I would like to ask her some questions with regards to her "faith".
Cheers,
Teeny
MEGAN
It says in the Bible that Jesus's true followers would be persecuted: Reading this blog has opened my eyes to that persecution: It is so amazing how someone who seems to be realativly smart can be controlled by the wicked one:
Yes we preach we go door to door to spread the good news, you have a brain you can choose to follow it or you can choose to turn away. The blood issue is a choice too, the bible states even in your king james version that we should not take in blood.
As for the new kingdom you do know its a heavenly king dom right?
"Just as Jesus predicted, his “presence” as heavenly King has been marked by dramatic world developments—war, famine, earthquakes, pestilences.Such developments bear powerful testimony to the fact that 1914 indeed marked the birth of God’s heavenly Kingdom and the beginning of “the last days” of this present wicked system of things.—"
"“The whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one.”—
"With each passing year, the world is becoming more and more dangerous. It is overrun with warring armies, dishonest politicians, hypocritical religious leaders, and hardened criminals. The world as a whole is beyond reform. "
Just because your Faith is yours does not give you the right to rip apart something you do not understand.
Thats why we live in America we have the RIGHT to beleive in what we want, and the RIGHT to share it. Just as you have the RIGHT to bad mouth it.
Jehovah Be blessed: And Faith be with you.
Ben
Hi again, Megan!
1) Find one lie on this blog and we'll retract it. Can't get fairer than that.
2) It isn't a choice to take blood or not. If you take blood, you are disfellowshipped (or, I think they call it automatic disassociation). Simple. It isn't a choice. It's a rule. The only choice you have is regarding blood 'fractions'. The blood issue is huge because you have to ask yourself would a loving God ask anyone to hold back medical treatment to save a child? I think not. And what happens when you get disfellowshipped? All your Jehovah's Witness family and friends will shun you - it's another rule. You don't have to take my word for it - please do some research into Watchtower literature or ask your elders. Just a note - it's NEVER okay, under any circumstances, to allow a child to die rather than provide an available, valid, medical treatment. I would hope you'd agree.
3) The last days prophecy - there are no more earthquakes now than before (there are less, actually, though you hear more because we are now a global community with technology to communicate wherever we are). Crime rates are lower. Thanks to medical advances, people live longer than ever (think back in history to when people died young) and the human population just passed 7 Billion people. Look around you - things aren't getting worse, no matter what the Watchtower says. Things are getting better. Yes, the world isn't perfect, but it is getting better, as my examples show (And you can easily research statistics on the internet about these things).
4) Faith isn't a virtue - faith means being able to believe in anything even if evidence says it can't possibly be true. That means I can believe in anything I want. That isn't a good thing, I am sure you agree. Also, as someone who has been through many religions, you should know that everyone says you need 'faith' but it doesn't mean a thing if a Hindu says to you to have faith that what they believe is true. Those other religions you were in were no more true, as you came to see by yourself, because they said they had 'faith'.
Despite what you may think - that we are disgruntled and angry - we honestly want to help people get all the evidence about Jehovah's Witnesses to make up their own minds. That is why everything I have said you can do your own independent research to see whether it is true or not. Contact us if you want more assistance, comments, or whatever.
Ben
Hi Danny,
Thanks for your comments. You are absolutely right - they deceive people from the first moment they get.
The sad thing is that many Jehovah's Witnesses don't even realise it, convinced that everything they do is for love. They don't see the hypocrisy at all, showing once again that they are a cult and not just a religion.
The blood issue is a huge thing, yet many people I speak to don't really understand that JWs are dangerous. As you said, thousands die because of their stance on blood. As Steven Weinberg said, for a good person to do something evil - that takes religion (or in this case, a brainwashing cult). My opinion is that it's bad enough that adults will let themselves die for their beliefs, but they are old enough to make their own choices. When children, however, have that decision made for them by their parents, they are getting away with murder.
Everyone, this is a good issue to bring up with JWs when they knock on your door next time!
Regards,
Ben
Danny Haszard
The Jehovah's Witnesses teach preach that Jesus had his return aka second coming October 1914,then they spin all sorts of doctrinal embellishments on that date with 1918 being their appointment by Jesus as sole heirs of this 1914 Kingdom coming.
They teach Michael the Archangel is one and same as Jesus,Have a deadly dogma prohibiting whole Blood transfusion but use cow's blood calling it *Hemopure*.
They teach only 144,000 go to heaven,on and on and on with made up man made dogmas......JW are a spin-off of the second adventist and have this in common with the SDA both of which shun Christmas holiday.
Jehovah's Witnesses promotion of their Watchtower sect has the net effect of stumbling and turning people off to the real Gospel.
Jesus said: "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you travel land and sea to win one proselyte; and when he is won, you make him twice as much a son of hell as yourselves" (Matt 23:15)
Danny Haszard
Jehovahs Witnesses apostate belief system.
A) They are at your door to recruit you for their watchtower society corporation,they will say that *we are just here to share a message from the Bible*... this is deception right off.
B) Their *message* creed is a false Gospel that Jesus had his second coming in 1914.The problem with this is it's not just a cute fairy tale,Jesus warned of the false prophets who would claim *..look he is here in the wilderness,or see here he is at the temple*.
C) Their anti-blood transfusion ban against *whole blood* has killed thousands.
D) once they recruit you they will *love bomb* you in cult fashion to also recruit your family & friends or cut them off.
*Wolves in sheep's clothing*
----
My family was spiritually and financially swindled by the apostate Watchtower society,3rd generation Jehovah's Witness Danny Haszard










Sorry, the browser you are using is not currently supported. Disqus actively supports the following browsers:
FirefoxChromeInternet Explorer 8+Safari
This page is forcing your browser to use legacy mode, which is not compatible with Disqus. Please see our troubleshooting guide to get more information about this error.
We were unable to load Disqus. If you are a moderator please see our troubleshooting guide.
Buddhagan
My mind has been on overdrive since formally rejecting JW. I have rejected all revealed religions but I still believe in Divine as Goddess. To me, this makes sense. I believe that everyone has a right to his/her spiritual path or no path at all. Although I believe in Divine, I respect those who don't and I will NOT argue with them about which one of us is correct. The point is after leaving JW, I can think for myself. The tree of knowledge has never tasted so good.
Ben
@Buddhagen "I still believe in Divine as Goddess" makes no more sense than "I believe in Jehovah" and for exactly the same reasons...
Ben
Linda
I find it ironic that you would "feel blessed." By whom? By what?
If I had been lied to all my life, had been used by a cult, had seen my closest friends and family deluded as well, I would probably be cynical and disillusioned by it all, too. I can't fault you there.
I've heard that many former JWs find peace after having read "Classic Christianity" by Bob George. After having their thoughts controlled and the scriptures twisted, former JWs find themselves dazed (and confused!) when they leave the Organization. This book can make sense of a Bible that has been misread and misconstrued by the WT. Just because the Governing Body has lost the plot doesn't mean that the Bible has.
Keep seeking. Keep questioning. Four years ago, you probably couldn't conceive that there would be another Truth out there - isn't it possible that you haven't reached all final conclusions yet?
Ben
Hi Linda,
Sorry we took a while to reply to your comment. We appreciate you leaving your opinion.
I understand your point that just because Jehovah's Witnesses aren't the true religion it doesn't mean there isn't another one.
I have to say, though, that the Bible says many things that we know not to be true. It is full of contradictions. I am open minded enough to believe anything, if you provide solid evidence for it. We have evidence that clearly demonstrates that many things in the bible simply can not be.
They say to have an open mind, but not so open that your brain falls out.
Also, just to clarify something that you seemed to be implying - we do not write on this blog because we are disillusioned by the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society. We speak out to save other people enduring the suffering they caused us, to help others to leave the dangerous cult and to offer a support network for those who struggle from leaving or are having to hide in their numbers for fear of being shunned and losing everything. That, I believe, is a noble cause (even if I do say so myself).
Thanks,
Ben










Sorry, the browser you are using is not currently supported. Disqus actively supports the following browsers:
FirefoxChromeInternet Explorer 8+Safari
This page is forcing your browser to use legacy mode, which is not compatible with Disqus. Please see our troubleshooting guide to get more information about this error.
We were unable to load Disqus. If you are a moderator please see our troubleshooting guide.
FAIL
Cool story bro. Rename your blog to 'The Idiot Blog'. Your content is garbage.
Teeny
@FAIL - Can you point out which part is garbage?
Regards,
Teeny
Andrew
@FAIL - Oh no... please rush me to the burn unit... your pointless insult without any credence just hurts too much... Oh my... I may just start going back to the meetings and seeking Jehovah's forgiveness...
You tool.
Arlene
I grew up in this cult but I admit I'd never heard #6 or 16. However, I did hear a few years ago that Pokemon are diabolical.
From what I've read so far, your blog is accurate. I was taught the JW doctrine from the time I was 3 and left when I was 22. It took another 18 years before I allowed myself to read Ray Franz's books and realize just how much of a lie this belief system is. It's easy to laugh at it all, especially when reading some of the superstitions, but when your mom is such a devout believer you can't have a conversation with her it's super sad. I'm thankful I'm free from it. I hope many more will be as well.
Ben
Hi Arlene,
Thanks for commenting. We do take great care to make sure everything we say is accurate. We can't afford not to because if a Jehovah's Witness can discredit one thing we say, then they dismiss even the good juicy bits. We, like you, hope that many people will be free from the cult and that the information on this blog can help them. Be sure to spread the word about JWB!
I've not heard about the Pokemon superstitions - what have you heard Jehovah's Witnesses say about them?
Regards,
Ben
Laryssa
Numbers 1, 5, 7, 8, 10, 11, 12, 17, 18, 19, 21 .... heard them all come out of my mom's mouth at one time or another. I just smh.
However, number 2 is slightly different in my mother's belief: "Buying something from a thrift store is discouraged because the money goes to the Catholic church".
Ben
Hi Laryssa,
Yeah, I've heard that too. I've also heard Jehovah's Witnesses say that you shouldn't buy from any charity store because all money they give to charity should be for the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society. Sad, isn't it.
Thanks for commenting on JWB!
Ben
teresa
I have 3 jehovahs witness friends, i wiil ask them ur questions and i let u know okay. my name is Teresa. Have a good day okay.











Sorry, the browser you are using is not currently supported. Disqus actively supports the following browsers:
FirefoxChromeInternet Explorer 8+Safari
This page is forcing your browser to use legacy mode, which is not compatible with Disqus. Please see our troubleshooting guide to get more information about this error.
We were unable to load Disqus. If you are a moderator please see our troubleshooting guide.
teresa
maybe ben. don't know
teresa
I saw a video on youtube, these two Jehovah witness's parents thier daughter really need a blood tranfusion, first they was going to let her die and then they were going to do it. But the part digust me the elder said i hope you get posion from that blood. they wii get shunned as well.
Ben
So have you seen enough to stop studying with them yet, Teresa?











Sorry, the browser you are using is not currently supported. Disqus actively supports the following browsers:
FirefoxChromeInternet Explorer 8+Safari
This page is forcing your browser to use legacy mode, which is not compatible with Disqus. Please see our troubleshooting guide to get more information about this error.
We were unable to load Disqus. If you are a moderator please see our troubleshooting guide.
Teresa
Hi lacy,
I will take your advice. Thank you for your advice.
Lacy
Teresa, no, no, a thousand times no!!!! Don't become a JW because you want an excuse to stop celebrating Christmas. That's like if I decided I should think about having a sex change and become a man because I would rather not have to wear a bra anymore. That would be a major drastic, permanent, life-altering decision to a minuscule and easily solved problem. Make no mistake, involvement with the JWs will alter your life forever and the only way out after you eventually realize your mistake will leave your life in shambles. I was a JW from the ages of 10-25 and when I left I lost all my so-called good friends and surrogate family, my job (I worked for JWs), my home, and my identity. It was the right choice and my life these last 5 years have been so much the better for it, but that is an experience I would never wish on anyone.
And a relationship with a being who is definitely invisible and probably even imaginary, will in no way make up for your lack of relationships with the people around you. You would be better off with voices in your head. At least they would respond. You should also know that any friendships you would develop with JWs would be artificial and conditional. I lost friends just because I had to stop pioneering (that is going door-to-door full time if you don't know the terminology yet) at one point to get a full time job so I could support myself (I enjoy things like eating and having a roof over my head). I was still a JW, but not considered a good enough one anymore by some and they judged me for it. It is stupid stuff like that defines friendships within the Kingdom Halls. In the 5 years since I have left the religion, you know how many of my friends have ever tried to contact me to see how I am? Not one. Only my non-JW friends remain. Those were the very friends the Elders told me I shouldn't have because they were the ones who wouldn't prove to be real friends.
Please take the advice from those of us who have been where you are now. We are just trying to save you from making the mistakes we wish someone had saved us from.
teresa
hi teeny,
I don't know anything about the 607 bc thing. And i kinda skip though these blogs. My reason i was thinking about is i'm sick of christmas eve, i don't get along with my dad's parents and also i don't like talking to my godmother. and i wanted to think that jehovah wii have a better connection that i had with Jesus christ himself, but i don't think that will happen as long im in this household........ Thanks for the advice and i take them very well.....
Teresa
Hi teeny, I am not sure if i want to be a witness yet. My family is religious catholic and they want me to stay that way, i am 25 years old. Lets see what happens, but im not joing them im not 1,0000 percent sure. And i will give my regards to my aunt for you. God bless
Teeny
Hey Teresa,
I think I asked you what made you even contemplate becoming a Jehovah's Witness. Did you answer me?
I find it so hard to understand why anyone in their right mind would want to join a religion that allows young children to die due to not allowing a blood transfusion. I was a born-in and so had no say in the matter. I tried to quit the Jehovah's Witness cult on two occasions before I finally left them in 2009. I'm a sucker for love-bombing and boy do they know how to suck you into their love circles, only to kick you to the curb when you start questioning them.
I am not sure if you've read the about me section? I need to update it a little I think as I haven't gone into too much detail. But in a nutshell, my parents, who both live in the London, UK Bethel, won't talk to me. Did I commit murder? Did I do something that should warrant this behaviour from anyone's parents? No. I simply asked them to show me some evidence. When they couldn't, I was told that I should be humble. Well, I sort of had enough of that rubbish and told my parents that I can't be a Witness any longer, to which they responded with telling me that if I am not with them in their faith, I am effectively Satan's son.
They don't talk to me any longer. Maybe that's a good thing. Who knows?
Anyway, I can sort of sense that you see a problem with the Jehovah's Witnesses. I advise you to read through some of the older posts on here and also take a look at some other Jehovah's Witness websites. In fact, please do something for me. Next time you're in a Bible study (funny that they call it a "Bible" study when in fact you're in a Watchtower, Bible & Tract Society literature study), please ask them to show you proof that Jerusalem was destroyed in 607 B.C.E. Teresa, do you understand the importance of 607 B.C.E.? Watch the face of your study conductor turn blue and then a shade of pink.
Teresa - always ask questions and seek answers that are backed up with real evidence.
Speak to you later.
Cheers,
Teeny
Teresa
Hi Tweeny,
How are you? There alot of rumours that the world going to end soon, it never happend and do you think 911 was just an sign of world coming to end? My aunt surrived that 92nd floor south tower! What u think of that Teeny?
Teeny
Hi Teresa,
For me to believe that the world was going to end, it would have to mean that I believed in a supernatural power that foretold such an event. Thing is, I don't believe in God. I can't believe in him. Take a look at my other (unfinished) blog, www.AtheistsWeekly.com. Start reading through that and I am sure you'll come to the same conclusion as I did a few years back, there is no God.
I am happy that your aunt survived the terror attacks. Next time you see her, give her my regards.
Ben has told me a lot about you and I do hope you can see that studying with Jehovah's Witnesses is the worst decision any human being could make.
God bless!
Laryssa
I've been reminded of "the end of times" by my JW mom for over 35 years. Just a few weeks ago we were talking about my brother's plans to relocate to another state in 2 years and she responded, "armageddon will be here before then so I don't know why he's planning so much" and I just couldn't help it when I responded that she's been saying that exact thing for so many years, it's hard to take her seriously anymore because based on what she always says, armageddon should have come and gone a long time ago. She changed the subject. :)











Sorry, the browser you are using is not currently supported. Disqus actively supports the following browsers:
FirefoxChromeInternet Explorer 8+Safari
This page is forcing your browser to use legacy mode, which is not compatible with Disqus. Please see our troubleshooting guide to get more information about this error.
We were unable to load Disqus. If you are a moderator please see our troubleshooting guide.
Andrew R
Hi there again fellas :-)
Although I feel you've misinterpreted my view, I do however believe that we're on the same wavelength. Firstly... I think that we're all in a state of 'ignorance' regarding anything beyond the conclusions that science appears to have produced, but THAT understanding is as a single quark compared to the universal picture. The only thing that I appeared to draw a conclusion from, would be that since the universe exists, it seems reasonable to assume that it was created..... somehow.
But.... the fact that it's impossible to unravel the whole mind-boggling idea of creation, doesn't matter at all. We'll never comprehend it, whether we feel our efforts come from knowledge or ignorance, but it doesn't matter!! What matters is that we be grateful for the fact that we are a part of 'creation', and that we accept that our efforts at understanding it all, are fun, but.. futile. Hence... it's not worth the 'us and them' type of strife that is created between denominations, by the ones that think they've got it cracked, and feel a sort of misplaced duty to try and force everyone else into what they feel they've understood.
I apologise for any apparent ambiguity in my original comments...... words can be so inadequate for conveying anything beyond very basic things that most people have got their minds around.
I must say though, that I don't see why the 'intelligent creator' hypothesis needs to necessarily disappear as soon as we feel that we have understood what some people(mainly insurance companies!!!) refer to as 'acts of God', just because we think we've found an understanding of certain happenings such as the hydrological cycle and static electricity. The things that we feel we DO understand, tend to serve as indicators of just how much more amazing things are, and just how much we DON'T understand. But that's ok.......... trying to understand a fraction of 'creation' is very exciting, and it always shows us just how much more there is that we haven't understood. That's ok too... in fact it's quite ok if every last aspect eludes our understanding. Either way.... understanding and non-understanding both serve to boggle our minds with the wonder and mystery of it all. If we can accept that the whole 'thing' WAS created, then it tends to follow that it was created by a power/life-force infinitely beyond our understanding. When I was a child, I felt a great security in knowing that I was being nurtured by people whose understanding of life was way beyond my own at that stage. So... by the same token, there's no reason NOT to feel that we can feel a certain security in the fact that someone/something is in command of the whole picture. Just because we don't like the way that people and events can so often adversely affect our lives, doesn't necessarily mean that they can be judged as 'bad' or 'wrong', or even.... 'good' or 'right'!! Unless we are in total command of the whole situation/picture, we are never in any position to judge... either way! And we certainly shouldn't be intolerant with each other over things that really don't matter, and that neither side can judge, anyway.
I must say that I really appreciate the fact that folk from this blog are taking the time to so thoughtfully respond to my efforts at stating how I feel. I particularly appreciate the careful tolerance shown in your responses. I always try to keep an open mind to all opinions, and am always prepared to accept different views if I feel there is truth in them(in my humble opinion only). Cheers......... Andrew R. :-)
Steve
Well, Andrew R, it seems to me that you want it both ways. You keep saying that it's a mystery and that you can't draw any conclusions, but then you make a statement like: "If we can accept that the whole ‘thing’ WAS created, then it tends to follow that it was created by a power/life-force infinitely beyond our understanding." But, no it does NOT follow. You first have to define what you mean by "created," and then what you mean by a "power/life-force." Currently, the hypothesis which best fits known facts is that the universe is the result of a mindless, lifeless "big bang." Of course we don't know everything about it, but I don't see any evidence for the universe having sprung from "a powerful life-force infinitely beyond our understanding." And I don't see how you make the leap from this to "a certain security in the fact that someone/something is in command of the whole picture." That's NOT a fact, it is pure wishful thinking. I would argue that the "big picture" of human history is an argument against such wishful thinking having much likelihood of being true (unless the one in command of the whole picture is a misanthrope with a sadistic bent.)
I will grant you that it's conceivable that our sufferings are for some greater good that we can't comprehend, not seeing the big picture. But eventually we experience diminishing returns, and at some point we have to say: NOTHING could be worth this much suffering! I feel that this point was passed a very long time ago, but to take a fairly recent example just think of the Holocaust. Despite your reservations, I'm going to go out on a limb and judge that event as "bad" AND "wrong," and if anyone was "in command of the whole picture" then I judge that one as bad and wrong as well.
The "intelligent creator" hypothesis disappears because upon examination it does not fit the facts nearly as well as the mindless forces of nature. The scientific method is to drop old hypotheses when we find one that better explains the evidence.
I'm all for tolerance, but I'm also in favor of the examined life. When people make religious claims I believe they should be put to the test to determine if they can possibly be true (or at least to determine how likely they are.) In the on-going age-old "great discussion" we will continue to hold such claims up to rigorous examination. Those who don't want to know the results of such inquiries are free to not attend to our findings. They can go their way in peace -- a peace I would not disturb unless their beliefs result in harm to others [which JW beliefs certainly do.]
James
Hi,
I'm not sure why certain religious groups have a hang up on evolution, it's really not that hard to understand and the weight of evidence is overwhelming. There is plenty to read on the subject for anyone wishing to remove their veil of ignorance.
Vania, when scientists say something is a theory, it means it's undergone and stood the test of peer review and scrutiny by the scientific community and the worlds greatest minds. Therefore, when you are told something by someone that is contrary to scientific facts, i'd be very careful about listening to such a person and question their scientific credentials and qualifications.
Comments such as 'why are there still monkeys?' are just silly questions when you understand evolutionary principles.
Andrew, one thing I find difficult to understand is how someone can look at the universe and come to the conclusion it had a creator - this doesn't answer any questions, it just leads to more questions about where such a being came from and what made him/her/it etc. Thankfully science delves into the unknown and hopefully we will learn more about the universes origons.
Andrew R
Hi there, James :-)
I'm not sure why you think I've drawn any conclusions about anything, based on all my previous comments. I was at pains to emphasise that the more we discover, the deeper the mystery becomes. The universe is mind-boggling in itself, but how can we possibly KNOW whether that's all there is!? Surely there's not much doubt that it WAS created, but HOW, and by whom...... mystery!! :-D As to questions always leading to more questions....... that's what I intended to convey when I said, "The more we dig, the deeper the mystery becomes." We should never become despondent when we find that it's all beyond our comprehension..... the human mind is incapable of its understanding, but..... it's fun to try, and find that it reminds us that we are not the masters of the universe! :-D A.R.
Steve
Andrew R,
The reason James and I think you've drawn conclusions from ignorance is the statement you initially made about "the certainty that there’s something/someone infinitely more intelligent than we could ever even pretend to comprehend, that DOES know the whole picture, and has its magnificent mystery under control".
A "certainty" is as sure of a conclusion as you can possibly get. But in your later comments you seem to be retracting that statement, claiming that you have drawn no conclusions. It's a little confusing.
In any case, I'd like to respond a little more clearly to that initial statement of yours.
Just because there are things we don't fully understand yet, it doesn't mean that the "intelligent designer" hypothesis is a "certainty." Throughout history whenever there was something people didn't fully understand they attributed it to "God" or "the gods." A drought ruined all the crops? Well, the gods must be angry; someone must've sinned and we'd better sacrifice something quick! A lightning bolt struck little Timmy Brown? Well, it must be because he was sinning: outside playing when he should've been in church... Those were the types of explanations given before we understood the hydrological cycles and static electricity. They are examples of how the "God" explanation vanishes along with our ignorance. In short, we can look back and honestly conclude: "God was just our ignorance." But I don't think it's particularly wise or honest to continue calling our ignorance "God." We should just speak plainly and call it our ignorance.
Andrew R
P.S....... I don't have any particular axe to grind regarding my request for the removal of the header subtitle... I'm not a JW or any other label for that matter.... I just feel that a derisory comment about any standpoint is counterproductive to any balanced discussion, particularly if a website headline indicates derision of ANY of the standpoints being discussed. Yes?? :-)
btw......... I reckon that labels are for cans... not for people!! :-D A.R.
Andrew R
N.B.... f.a.o. Site Owner/Editor.............
I sincerely hope that in the light of my previous comments, whoever is the originator of this site might like to consider removing the subtitle on the header of this page!?
The less we judge/denounce each other's standpoints, and the more we try to understand(not necessarily accept) them, the closer(hopefully) we may, between us, come to the truth. Otherwise, we become guilty of perpetuating a form of 'religious strife', which we are all to quick to denounce when it reaches extremes such as in Ireland and the Middle East!! A.R.
Steve
Andrew R,
I don't discount your point of view on this matter, and I'm hoping Teeny will find time to reply to your objection.
In the meantime I just wanted to clarify some things. First of all, the subtitle is an inside-joke. This is a site primarily designed for former or disgruntled Jehovah's Witnesses, which attempts to point out the silliness of the Watchtower's dogma by the use of humor.
The Watchtower magazine has this subtitle on the cover of every issue: "Announcing Jehovah's Kingdom." So it's funny to see the subtitle played with here to become "Denouncing."
We're not denouncing Witnesses, but rather the dogmas and life-robbing and life-threatening rules which the Watchtower cult imposes on their members.
As you stated: "we are all to quick to denounce [‘religious strife’] when it reaches extremes." I think it's fair to state that it has reached an extreme in the Watchtower cult when it demands the sacrifice of Witness children due to their rule against blood-transfusions, as well as their "2 witness rule" which results in a free pass for pedophiles. I feel these are definitely extremes worth denouncing.
I agree that people can believe what they want, and they shouldn't be persecuted for that. But when those beliefs are acted upon and cause harm to others then we all need to speak out.
Andrew R
I was well aware of the subheading on the Watchtower magazine, and could see why your play on its wording could be seen as humourous, and aimed at the dogmas of the Watchtower, but.... unfortunately, the subtitle in its satirical form actually denounces God's kingdom, as opposed to the Jehovah's Witnesses dogmas, which is I know what you intended. My argument would be that it could easily turn away many people from other christian denominations if they saw that the site appeared to be a denunciation of the kingdom of God(whatever they may perceive 'Him' to be)........ and their views may just prove invaluable in rescuing folk from the JWs.
Andrew R
Hi Steve... :-)
If there was one definite thing that my previous comments were NOT intended to convey, it would be that 'nobody can draw ANY conclusions in this realm'.... I wouldn't presume to totally understand any of it!!' ..... be it physical or metaphysical.......... that's the beauty of the whole 'thing'......... its utter beautiful mystery, which only gets deeper the more we dig!
There's certainly no harm in digging, because it only reminds us that we are in the presence of a greater mystery than we imagined! The only way that our 'digging' can become negative is if we think we've got it cracked, and that anyone whose opinion is different. is going to hell, or is stupid!! :-D It is such a shame that the differences between so many sects/cults/denominations are. more often than not, based on things that we aren't meant to comprehend at this stage, OR on things that don't actually matter! :-)
I certainly wasn't intending to draw any conclusions on ANY level... I wouldn't presume to, but..... as I said, it's fascinating to try to make sense of things, particularly when ANY efforts in that direction will always bring to light the infinite depth of the mystery. :-)
Then....... we HAVE to resort to trust. We do it with each other, every day of our lives, so why not in the realm of the infinite!?
As to the 'misery and suffering'.......... we can't presume to wholly understand that, any more than we can understand the rest of it 'all'..... so there's no way we should presume to judge it as bad OR good. On a personal note, I have to say that I believe that whatever is at the root of it all, is 'good', but.... that has to be based on trust/hope, or, dare I say it: faith! :-D
(btw........ words are totally inadequate vehicles, but they're all I have!) A.R.
Steve
Hi Andrew R,
You're committing the logical fallacy of drawing a "certainty" based on ignorance. Yes, we know that no human created the universe, but it doesn't follow from our ignorance that something intelligent created it. You can't draw positive conclusions from ignorance, though you can rule out the obvious false conclusions (such as "a man created it.")
It does not give me a warm feeling to imagine that an intelligent designer created the universe and "knows the whole picture," it just gives me the creeps to think that something that powerful could design something so steeped in misery and suffering,
Andrew R
One of the wonderful anomalies of our universe is that there's no way that the human mind can comprehend it.... but it is brilliant fun to try! :-) Our current 'understanding' of tiny fractions of it, are just scratches on the surface of the infinite, and the fascinating thing about those scratches is that they only emphasise more what we DON'T know than what we DO know!! :-D Ok... we've sussed to a certain extent things such as survival of the fittest, natural selection, atoms, quarks and photons; but the more we delve, the more fabulously complex it all turns out to be!! In my view, the beauty of the whole of creation is its incredible, infinite mystery!! No true scientist would ever presume to conclude that we understand creation, any more than the clay can understand the potter! Even though Einstein discovered that matter and energy are interchangeable.... dependent somehow on the speed of light squared..... but......... HOW!!!?? .... and what is the force that makes these things happen? Even Einstein had to admit that the more he discovered, the more it threw up just how little we understand.. and the word 'mystery' cropped up more and more, the more he tried to understand. That, to me, is the incredible beauty of creation! Ok... so we can trade what we think we understand with each other, which is great; but let's never fall out over our various 'understandings' of a mystery that deepens the more we think we've got it cracked!! :-D No God??? Maybe not an old man in the sky, but......... 'who' created the great and infinite mystery?? It certainly wasn't a mere human, and that's for sure!!!! :-D I just love the certainty that there's something/someone infinitely more intelligent than we could ever even pretend to comprehend, that DOES know the whole picture, and has its magnificent mystery under control, however chaotic in may appear to us mere mortals! :-) Doesn't that give you a warm, secure feeling, even though there's no way we'll understand it this side of eternity!!? :-) A.R.
Vania
The post talks about evolution's simplicity but I find it very confusing, everyone I talk to gives me a different definition and seems to have their own idea of what it is. Where there's division there's no truth. Truth is simple and clear, it's evident to everyone, evolution seems to be everything but that...
Vania
Maybe the evolution definition has changed since Darwin came up with it. That wouldn't surprise me because a theory is in fact a group of ideas or suppositions regarded as the truth until someone comes up with a better idea, right? Let's assume for a moment that what you're telling me is true, where are the species in transition? Shouldn't there be some that are deviating from their own species significantly regardless of how many millions or billions of years it takes for those changes to occur? There's nothing. Look around you. The natural order of things continues and it never crosses that line. Everything works in harmony exactly as the bible described. The truth is the truth, it doesn't change, it doesn't become outdated. Saying that the Bible shouldn't be taken into consideration simply because it was written a long time ago isn't a valid argument. Scientists and scholars have tried to disprove the bible's veracity to the point of even trying to say that Jesus never existed, that many of the locations mentioned in it were mythological, only to find out later on that they were wrong. The Bible is harmonious, scientifically correct, and truthful from beginning to end.
Steve
Vania,
I've already given you examples of species "in transition": the whale's vestiges of legs and the air-breathing lung-fish. Actually, everything is in transition, we just can't see it within our limited lifespans. That's where the fossil evidence helps. Though we HAVE seen documented cases of evolution within our lifespan such as the moths that turned black to match the soot produced by the industrial revolution. Again: this was not adaptation as you define it, but rather a survival of the black moths (now camouflaged in the soot) against a decline of the original colored moths who were easy pickings on a sooty background.
The definition of evolution has not changed since Darwin's time. There have just been additional hypothesis as to HOW and WHEN it may have occurred, not THAT it occurred or the basic mechanisms involved. You need to at least READ Darwin's Origin of the Species before you attempt to critique it.
I didn't say that the Bible shouldn't be taken into consideration because it's old. [There's that straw-man again!] I'm saying that it was a good try given what they knew back then (very little). Since then we've had thousands of years of building upon our knowledge base, and have developed the scientific method for discovering truth based on evidence and testing of hypothesis to prove which is the best explanation that accords with the evidence.
It turns out that the writers of the Bible got very little right when it came to the natural order of the world. Much of what they wrote is definitely NOT harmonious or scientifically accurate. I think it must be one of the most self-contradictory collection of writings that has ever been thrown together. But I've written an entire book on that subject, so I'm not going to type it all out here. Please read it and then we can talk: http://smmcroberts.net/religio...
Vania
I've been through these discussions a million times but thanks for your time! There's no point in continuing. :) Thanks again.
Vania
Not convinced. Changing colors isn't changing into something else. It is still a moth of the same species, and according to what I've read, they're reverting back to white. It is camouflage. Once again a perfect example of adaptation to their environment.
Vania
Adaptation means that all organisms have the ability to change to a certain degree to adapt to their environment, but implying that we've evolved from monkeys is stating that one species turned into another, that at one point some fish grew legs and lungs, came out of the water and transformed into something completely different than what they were before. Another example of adaptation is what happens to our bodies when we put it through intense weight training for long periods of time. Your muscles develop in order to cope with the environment chsnges, but that has never changed someone into something different, lol! Species adapt but birds are still birds, fish are still fish, reproducing according to their species, the rest is fiction, pure and simple. Genesis remains true and always will.
Steve
Hi Vania,
Thanks for clarifying that you have a different meaning for "adaptation" than its scientific definition. It helps in knowing how to communicate with you.
Tell me again who it was that "implied that we've evolved from monkeys," I missed that. Maybe you should re-read the article you are attempting to comment on, because it was explained very clearly there that no one [except those ignorant of what evolution means, or those attacking evolution via straw-man arguments] has ever implied any such thing.
Weight-training has nothing to do with evolution or with a species adapting to their environment. It is simply an individual strengthening their own muscles. Acquired characteristics are not passed on through DNA to offspring, and hence have no place in this discussion other than to point out what evolution and species adaptation do NOT consist of. If my father had become an obsessive body-builder going from the proverbial 98-pound weakling to an Arnold Schwarzenegger look-alike, it would've had zero effect on my scrawny muscles. Actually, my father was a musician who taught himself to play the steel guitar, but I didn't inherit that musical ability from him: it was a characteristic he acquired during his lifetime, not something in his DNA that he could pass along to me.
So this is yet another straw-man argument (one of the Watchtower's favorite logical fallacies): imputing something to evolution which it does not claim and then arguing against it.
When you say "some fish grew legs and lungs, came out of the water and transformed into something completely different than what they were before" you are closer to the truth. Of course it wasn't "some fish" but rather many generations of fish that gradually evolved over time. The fossil record bears this out, and we even have species today that blur the distinction between fish and air-breathers such as the lung-fish. Some went the other way: whales left the land and went to live in the sea (we find vestiges of legs in their skeletons: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V....
The natural world is not fiction. Genesis is just a book that some anonymous people threw together from ancient campfire stories told as primitive attempts to explain the universe [No, it was definitely NOT written by Moses.] It was a nice try, though full of contradictions, logical flaws, and hopelessly naive assumptions. We have more suitable data today, and theories which fit the facts of nature much better. From your comments, Vania, it's obvious you haven't considered these theories objectively, but rather have decided that you have found the truth in Genesis, and therefore every competing explanation must be wrong. If you want to live your life that way, that's fine. But please don't represent yourself to others as if you know what you're talking about. If that sounds harsh, let me add that I understand where you're coming from, because, when I was a Witness I did the same thing: acted as if I knew what I was talking about when in fact all I knew [other than what I'd largely ignored as a kid in school] is what I'd read in the Watchtower's slanted publications. It's not until I left and read Darwin for myself that I realized how the Watchtower had misled me, and what a fool I had been.
Evolution is one of the surest facts we know about our place in the universe. To deny it out of hand [and in the face of all the evidence] in favor of a book of fairy tales just goes to show how powerful a cult can be.
Vania
What you described is called adaptation. The animal changes to ADAPT to its environment but it is still reproducing according to its species exactly as described in Genesis. About gravity, you see it, you experience it when you drop an object, it is a fact. Evolution, however, according to Darwin, we've evolved and changed from one creature to another in time. There is no evidence of that anywhere. Adaptation and evolution are not the same thing.
Steve
I agree, Teeny. Vania has tried to cloud the simple truth of evolution by throwing in the word "adaptation," and then claiming that this is what we (and Genesis) are describing as opposed to "evolution."
She's right in that "they are not the same thing," but adaptation is PART of evolution, not some sort of opposing alternative explanation of the facts (as the Watchtower, in its never-ending propagation of ignorance would have us believe.)
According to Wikipedia: "An adaptation in biology is a trait with a current functional role in the life history of an organism that is maintained and evolved by means of natural selection." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A...
The bacteria Andrew describes is a perfect example of this. It is not the case that individual bacterium develop an immunity to the anti-biotic, but rather that some just start out being resistant, and these are the ones that survive the onslaught of the antibiotic to reproduce bacteria that inherit that resistance. You can call that an adaptation caused by the natural selection of a random variation. In a word: evolution.
The evidence that these simple ingredients of evolution (variation + natural selection) have produced macro level changes is overwhelming to anyone who has the courage to lift their eyes up from the pages of their Watchtower and take a good look at the real world all about them.
Teeny
Vania, did you really just say there's no proof for evolution anywhere?
Wow. You. Have. No. Idea. What. Evolution. Is.
reality
evolution is a direct contradiction to much of the bible. funny how you can still have such a obviously strong belief in something with no evidence such as god...
Andrew
There's evidence for god's existence? Oh, please, do tell.
Jason
The Alabama State Board of Education required disclaimer explains this best.
The new evolution insert reads:
The word "theory" has many meanings. Theories are defined as systematically organized knowledge, abstract reasoning, a speculative idea or plan, or a systematic statement of principles. Scientific theories are based on both observations of the natural world and assumptions about the natural world. They are always subject to change in view of new and confirmed observations.
Many scientific theories have been developed over time. The value of scientific work is not only the development of theories but also what is learned from the development process. The Alabama Course of Study: Science includes many theories and studies of scientists' work. The work of Copernicus, Newton, and Einstein, to name a few, has provided a basis of our knowledge of the world today.
The theory of evolution by natural selection is a controversial theory that is included in this textbook. It is controversial because it states that natural selection provides the basis for the modern scientific explanation for the diversity of living things. Since natural selection has been observed to play a role in influencing small changes in a population, it is assumed that it produces large changes, even though this has not been directly observed. Because of its importance and implication, students should understand the nature of evolutionary theories. They should learn to make distinctions between the multiple meanings of evolution, to distinguish between observations and assumptions used to draw conclusions, and to wrestle with the unanswered questions and unresolved problems still faced by evolutionary theory.
There are many unanswered questions about the origin of life.With the explosion of new scientific knowledge in biochemical and molecular biology and exciting new fossil discoveries, Alabama students may be among those who use their understanding and skills to contribute to knowledge and to answer many unanswered questions. Instructional materials associated with controversy should be approached with an open mind, studied carefully, and critically considered.
I believe this disclaimer should be a requirement for ALL evolutionary textbooks. It explains what we do know (Micro Evolution) vs what we don't know (Macro Evolution).
Andrew
No, Jason - there is no controversy about this. Microevolution IS macroevolution in that it is the same process, just looked at from a different time scale. Also, 'theory' in scientific terms is the highest point a hypothesis can get - it means that it is FACT. There is no controversy between scientists about evolution. Try actually reading my post above before posting your rubbish here. It is such a shame that creationist morons (with no evidence for their beliefs) have muscled their way into school text books. You and any other creationist who agree with this disclaimer are just dishonest - you only disagree with evolution because you've already decided you believe in god and that is that. You don't have any VALID reasons to disprove evolution, and even if you did, it wouldn't prove god exists. It's people like you that get on my nerves by perpetuating the creationist lies.
Jason
My apologies Ben, I meant Andrew.
Jason
Andrew, thank you for your reply.
Can we back up a little?
As you know, I posted the Alabama disclaimer. I feel it best represents my position on the issue.
Regardless of whether your opinion differs from my own, I'm entitled to my own opinion, am I not?
You had a go at me, I responded. No hard feelings, can we move forward?
You say:
"Our blog is CLEARLY anti-god blog and anti-JW blog. That isn’t a secret – I am very open about it."
Thank you for making your position clear, I have only just stumbled across your blog and as such, am not familiar with your position.
After your last comment, I think I understand your "hostility" towards my post.
I must be honest, I feel the same towards the Darwinists who believe Darwinian processes alone explain why there is "something instead of nothing".
I am happy to discuss our disagreements, and respond to your questions, assuming you are interested, and as long as we can do away with the unpleasantries?
I will have a good look through your site later on today. Once more familiar with it's content, I'll respond further assuming you're interested?
I find many blogs exist to push the owners position, but not to actually discuss the issues at hand.
Please be assured I respect your views and opinions, although I do disagree with a lot of what you say.
I also apologise for the direct and harsh tone of my last post.
I however take exception to the way you bash, in this case JW's because their views differ from your own.
I look forward to hearing your reply
Andrew
Jason, feel free to email andrew AT jehovahswitnessblog.com where we can re-start discussions, as you suggest. I agree as long as we don't get personally insulting and do away with the unpleasantness as you say. But also, don't contact if you just want to convert me - I only like discussions where I feel what I say will actually be considered (and I will consider your points).
Just to be clear on your secondary point, I do not bash JWs because their views differ to my own. That isn't a good reason, in my opinion. I 'bash' JWs because of the dangers they present. People can believe what they want, but when those beliefs cause harm to others, I will speak up about it. That is my stance on all religions, and I do speak out about them all, but I know JWs the BEST because I was raised one so I focus more on them. I also contribute to this site because JWs are a cult and members need help when leaving - we have dealt directly with quite a lot of Witnesses who have wanted to leave but needed the support to do so due to the shunning practices, for example.
Anyway, let's leave it here and I look forward to your email.
Jason
I'm sorry Ben but I must disagree.
I think it's obvious from your emotional outburst that your judgment is impaired and your objectivity is compromised.
Branding anyone who disagree's with you a moron, or as being dishonest, is nothing but typical Darwinist bully tactics, and quite frankly cowardly.
No Ben, I suspect your blog is really an "anti-God" blog. Evolution has nothing to do with it.
Further, your understanding of the controversies, difficulties and complications eating at your cherished theory are clearly lacking.
Also, your arguments are weak and your understanding of theology is disturbing.
All you have done Ben is leave one religion to join another, congratulations.
http://www.dissentfromdarwin.o...http://www.darwinspredictions....
Oh and before you jump to conclusions again, I'm not a creationist. I do however have many friends who are. While I do not subscribe to their beliefs, I respect their views and opinions.
I would have enjoyed engaging with you further. Unfortunately, your first comment shows your lack of maturity, lack of understanding and inability to deal with others and those who have different views other than your own.
Shame on you
Andrew
Jason, you are right I was impatient, but that is because your comment obviously did not take in to account anything I had written in my post. I have to hear poor, repeated arguments from anti-evolutionists far too often and I thought, 'here we go again.' Sorry for jumping to conclusions, but please, prove me wrong.
I have a very good understanding of evolution. It is not a religion, because I do not need faith to believe it. I have evidence. Believing the Earth orbits the sun is not religion as we know it is fact. Same with evolution.
If you are not a creationist, how do you think we have all the diversity of life today? I can't think of another reason why anyone would deny the fact of evolution apart from it opposing their religious beliefs.
Which of my arguments are weak? And where are your arguments? You claim macro-evolution doesn't happen, but ignore all the evidence we have. I don't want to sound mean here (I was impatient in my last comment, yes) but it seems you do not fully understand micro and macro evolution. I have already explained it is the same thing but on a different scale. The same process. If you accept that genetic traits can be passed on through generations, that IS evolution. A child can 'have' it's parents eyes, nose, etc. There are also small changes. Then look at how different the parent would look to it's descendant a million million years later. It's the SAME thing.
Our blog is CLEARLY anti-god blog and anti-JW blog. That isn't a secret - I am very open about it.
Anthony Johns
There is no paranormal.
Evolution is a fact.
Jillian
What always confused me was when I'd ask how all of the separate species of animals could fit on Noah's Ark. I was told " The Ark didn't contain every single species. For example, not every breed of dog or cat was there, rather the dog and cat pairs on the Ark contained the genetic material of all the breeds we have today. They were in themselves 'Arks' of their species." They won't actually say the word but that's evolution! And absurdly, evolution that they say took place in the last 5-6 thousand years.
Ben
Yes Jillian, you are absolutely right. They say they were 'kinds' of animals, but don't define what a 'kind' is. Jehovah's Witnesses often say that they believe animals can vary and change, but not change species. Of course, this is ludicrous as it is the same process just over a longer period of time.
Thanks for your comment,
Ben













Sorry, the browser you are using is not currently supported. Disqus actively supports the following browsers:
FirefoxChromeInternet Explorer 8+Safari
This page is forcing your browser to use legacy mode, which is not compatible with Disqus. Please see our troubleshooting guide to get more information about this error.
We were unable to load Disqus. If you are a moderator please see our troubleshooting guide.
Mark Palo
Being born and raised in the WT and then DAing myself some 20 odd years ago I decided that I needed a college education. I majored in substance abuse and addictions. I learned that when leaving a cult such as the JWs a person reacts as if they are suffering withdrawal symptoms. Yes, the theology of the WT can be addictive. You are told to believe that you are special, have better morals, and are privileged. The constant bombardment of PROPAGANDA by the WT keeps ones mind comfortably numb (apologies to Pink Floyd) and the enforced physical, mental, and spiritual isolation fosters an unhealthy dependence on the borg. Just as with any addict once you are out/sober you find yourself with too much free time, nothing to do and no direction. You miss the camaraderie and inclusion in a secret group that has their own language and passwords. Take for instance, he's not in the truth is he? To an outsider it sounds like so much babble, but, to a JW that question has a whole different meaning. So in conclusion one has to detox in several areas before one is free from the enduring tendrils of the WT lie.
Buddhagan
Annulled? I need to do that. I was baptized at 17 and df'ed 3 yrs later. I have no childhood friends and haven't seen my mother in person for over 5 yrs. If I knew then what I know now, I would have never taken the dip like my sister. She enjoys my mother's love and the company of our mutual friends even though she converted briefly to Islam and homosexuality.
Lacy
It is essentially a legally binding contract. I don't think anyone under the age of 18 (which is the age of legal consent here in the US) should be allowed to get baptized for that reason. I was 13 when I got baptized and 25 when I got DFed. Any other kind of contract I entered into at 13 would be overturned in the court of law because I was a minor. I wonder if anyone has ever tried to sue the Society for being DFed using the argument that they couldn't be held to the baptism due to having entered into it as a minor? If not, someone should do it (no, not me--I am just happy to be free). I know some elders who have had their kids' baptisms ANNULLED when the kids committed a sin that anyone else would have been DFed for. I would love to know how you can get that power.
This blog also reminded me of resolutions. You go to a convention and some elder gives a talk outlining several resolutions the Society has adopted. Then a WT article comes out on the talk and bragging about how thrilled Jehovah is that 7 million people have resolved to do A, B, C, and D. Really? I never chose to resolve to do it. There was no choice, no vote, no options at all. Less than a dozen men on the Governing Body resolved to do it and that is it--just a few men, not 7 million. How do I get myself counted out of that number? Oh wait, I guess that is what disfellowshipping is for.
Ben
Too right, Lacy!











Sorry, the browser you are using is not currently supported. Disqus actively supports the following browsers:
FirefoxChromeInternet Explorer 8+Safari
This page is forcing your browser to use legacy mode, which is not compatible with Disqus. Please see our troubleshooting guide to get more information about this error.
We were unable to load Disqus. If you are a moderator please see our troubleshooting guide.
teresa
thanks for the advice ben.
Teresa
Ben, i didnt get ur email.
Ben
Try checking your spam. Otherwise, please contact us via the JWB contact form here so that, as I said, the comments here don't go way off topic. Thanks!
Ben
Teresa
Ben, let me go off topic just once please. I need some advice on something my friend Olivia told me to take my horrscopes off my facebook account, i am not one of them but she threating me that she wii take me off until i do that, i want to respect her as a friend but when she put verses of her bible i would never do that. what should i do?
Ben
Hi Teresa,
I have emailed you a reply so that the comments don't go way off topic.
Thanks!
Ben










Sorry, the browser you are using is not currently supported. Disqus actively supports the following browsers:
FirefoxChromeInternet Explorer 8+Safari
This page is forcing your browser to use legacy mode, which is not compatible with Disqus. Please see our troubleshooting guide to get more information about this error.
We were unable to load Disqus. If you are a moderator please see our troubleshooting guide.
Peregrine
I'm gonna ad my two cents here as I was one of Jehovah's Witnesses for many years, from the time I was young. And I can tell you, without a doubt, they are no different in pulling the same underhanded tactics that are used & have been used with any zealous religious organization with full intent of indoctrination & assimilation.
Instilling guilt.
Encouraging "separation from the world" by no longer associating with ones not "related to us in the faith."
Fear of being judged by a displeased God, being shunned by all your family & friends if you commit any wrongdoing.
This is something that can ruin a person's life & I unescessarily tear families apart. This absolutely angers me to see this, even years later. It took me years. YEARS, to overcome the guilt that is ingrained & hammered home on some level at each meeting. Unecessary guilt.
My mother, still a practicing Witness, wanted to have coffee with me yesterday morning & talk to me about some of the things she had been hearing on news reports & shows like the Fifth Estate & Dateline. Exposure of horrendous abuse within congregations. Countless cases were handled so badly. Mine was of course one of them. My mother came to me yesterday & apologized for not stepping up to the plate when she should have had my abuser charged. Don't get me wrong, there was the odd elder that really tried to fix what happened, but most of them were completely inept at handling the situation & made it much worse.
I'm not going to go into a tirade with either Mert or Eniye for writing what they wrote, even though both their letters are laced with that same religious guilt tripping that is so insidious with every facet of the organization. I really feel sorry for folks that still wear those blinders. It's human nature to want to belong, be part of a community & don't want to be an outcast. I understand that. And it can be the hardest thing in the world to walk away from all that & while doing so, extremely painful. But in the end, is it ever worth it. I had to start from scratch, but I am so thankful I did.
As for my mom, she is seeing the huge cracks in the foundation, but I think making that step to walk away is terribly difficult.
I had an elder call on my door a couple of years ago, knowing who I was & making that plea to return to the fold. Once again, using those same guilt-tripping tactics. "Jehovah still loves you, you know." You know what I said to him that stopped him dead in his tracks?
"What makes you think I feel he ever stopped loving me?"
Graham Central Station
Thanks for bearing your soul, James. Whether you realize it or not, your posts are like a healing balm to others who, while strangers to you, have shared your experiences. As another "genetically designed" JW commented: "Being raised in a cult is like being raised in a snake pit." ~ (gcs7000@ymail.com)
House
Glad the author came to his senses.
As for the other two comments, what drivel you speak.
Eniye Deborah
I'm also one of Jehovah's witnesses my brother mert has just said it all.You do not know you have a great part to play in God's kingdom why not establish a better relationship with Jehovah once more and feel what it is to be under the loving shelter of Jehovah God. So good that you were exposed to the Biblical teachings before you left the truth. Why not take advantage of the opportunity you have at hand before the end comes so you can be among that lovely brotherhood you once find yourself.Can you still remember the hope of your dead loved ones in the Bible how many people do you think have such hope to comfort them but the scriptures through the inspired word of Jehovah which he uses People like you and i to proclaim do, but why are you leaving the work for me alone to do just because of ignorance and temptation. Or do want to say you experience greater joy compared to what you once enjoyed back then in Jehovah's organization. Think deep Jehovah loves you and he will do all he can to restore you to the accurate knowledge of truth once again, all you need to do now is persevere in PRAYER to Jehovah and daily thinking upon Jehovah's will to your greatest surprise he will hold you by your right arm and say This Is My Son Come After Me.Note please this words are not merely from my head knowledge Jehovah gave me the words to send to you and after you read make some need adjustment.(Ephesians 5:10,16&17, 2Peter 3:9.17&18).
Nico
Dear Deborah,
Many evenings the thought of just not existing felt like I was floating on air! I never in 23 years experienced that kind of joy in the organization. JW's don't own God, they don't own hope for the dead afterlife, they steal it from you, twisting it, & try to hold you hostage from it. Free yourselves Mert & Deborah!
God Bless, Nico
mert
I'm one of Jehovah's Witnesses. I truly believe that if you study the Bible with an open mind and an open heart and whtoiut outside influences you will come to the same basic understanding of the main doctrines as you will if you study with Jehovah's Witnesses.BUT of course this is making certain assumptions. It is assuming that you don't already have falsehood embedded in your consciousness by other things you have learned .Most of what Jehovah's Witnesses find we have to do with people is not so much to teach them the Bible (that is the easy part) but to UNTEACH them things they've learned that are false. We have to help them to see that a lot of the things someone has already taught them is not true according to the scriptures.COULD you come to this conclusion on your own? I think that plenty have. I think certain ones have looked at the Bible and seen the scriptures about Jesus' relationship with Jehovah and have correctly surmised that Jehovah is the father of Jesus, that Jesus is his son, that they are in unity in will and purpose, but that they are NOT the same person.But how easy is it to come to a conclusion like that even if it is clear it is what the Bible truly teaches? Peer pressure and the sheer WILL of those who want you to believe otherwise makes it hard to buck the flow even when it is clear by such scriptures as John 14:28, John 20:17, and Matthew 26:39 that Jehovah was greater than Jesus, was the God of Jesus, and that the two of them had two separate wills although Jesus was willing to submit to his Father's will.Should you quit your study and study on your own? Personally I don't think so. I think instead what you should do is to keep on studying WITH the Witnesses, and ALSO study on your own. Search the scriptures extensively and SEE if you can disprove anything they attempt to teach you.This way you will be following the examples of the Boreans in the Bible whom Paul preached to. He said that the Boreans were noble minded because while they accepted what they were being taught they ALSO diligently studied the scriptures daily as to whether what they were being taught was true.Remember that even the Ethiopian in the Bible who was a Jewish proselyte didn't completely understand the scriptures whtoiut someone who knew a little more about them to guide him . When Phillip did guide him he rejoiced at his greater knowledge and accepted Jesus and was baptized in Jesus' name.I was raised as one of Jehovah's Witnesses so I never had to unlearn falsehood, It all ALWAYS made perfect sense to me and there was no conflict in my mind or heart. It is one of the things I love about our religion, it all makes SO much sense as you would expect the truth to do.But my mom was once where you are now. She talked to me about how she studied and had so many questions and was constantly interrupting her daily life with discussions with neighbors about the Bible, and kept on wondering if she COULD be finally learning the truth. I think she was undergoing a lot of turmoil (as you may be) and so she says that she prayed about it. Prayed very seriously to God to help her to KNOW if what she was learning was true or not.She described trying to read the book of Revelation about Babylon the Great and she said she would read a little and then go tuck in a corner of the sheet, read a little more and then tuck in the other corner. (I think she was feeling guilty as though she was neglecting her household chores because of her facination with the things she was learning).She said after her prayer and her meditating on the things she was reading it suddenly seemed SO clear to her. She said she read the scripture in Revelation about no more will the sound of a bride and a bridegroom be heard in her again and she asked herself What this could refer to? Said where else is such things heard except in the churches?It was for her a moment of truth. A moment of clarity brought on by her prayer and her prayer being answered. For you the moment of clarity may come in regard to some other scripture. But certainly DO all the digging into the Bible that you can. Get yourself a comprehensive concordance and look up all the scriptures on a particular topic. Study hard and PRAY PRAY PRAY about it.If you are sincere, Jehovah will guide you to a point where you no longer have to worry about whether you are learning the truth or not. You will KNOW. Pray and wait for his answer.
Wayne Williamson
Dear Mert, you are one big jack horse, do you read your bible you are in a CULT
musicman4283
mert, you must be retarded if you think anyone will read all of the BS you have written above. Meaningless drivel.
Steve
I wonder how many hours this tag team counted for their monthly service reports? At least 1 rv and 1 study!
Garbage cult!










Sorry, the browser you are using is not currently supported. Disqus actively supports the following browsers:
FirefoxChromeInternet Explorer 8+Safari
This page is forcing your browser to use legacy mode, which is not compatible with Disqus. Please see our troubleshooting guide to get more information about this error.
We were unable to load Disqus. If you are a moderator please see our troubleshooting guide.
Jennifer
I happened upon your blog by accident and have been blown away been by all the old JW memories that it brings to the surface. I left the religion when I was 23 (8 years ago) it was a gut wrenching and tumultuous decision. I and I lost all of my friends and family because of it. I could write on and on about my experiences, but what I really am commenting about is this blog post.
When I was 19 my boyfriend (also a "brother) had gone a little too far in our physical relationship. We didn't have sex, but as close as sex can be--without the actual sex part--If you know what I mean... Well, this weighed HEAVILY on my conscience--especially after one particular Watchtower study article. Anyhow, I decided to talk to the elders. I went to one elder that I felt very comfortable with and he told me he had to get a "judicial committee together" (Sidenote: I always found it ironic that Jehovah's Witnesses are not supposed to "judge," but at the same time are subject to a "judicial committee") Anyhow, I was blindsided and mortified at the questions these men asked me (2 "brothers" from my congregation, and one random "brother" from another congregation--I did not know this guy." I was alone in a room with them, and they asked me questions like, "did Brother so-and-so (my boyfriend) touch your breasts?" "Did he touch you in a place than other than your breasts (gesturing to my vagina!!)? The interrogation went on and on; I felt dirty, disgusting and violated. I felt like they got off hearing a young 19 year old girl tell them her hot little stories. That judicial committee (I was not disciplined-ie. reproved or disfellowshiped) changed the way I thought about everything. I couldn't believe these "elders" were trained to do this. Why didn't I have a woman in the room with me? Why did I have to confess my sins (in such detail) to a bunch of weird elders??? I realized there was something fishy about the religion. A religion I knew my entire life and believed, up until then, to be true. This experience is what prompted my questioning the religion, and I could not be more grateful!
So there's another little story for you- I have tons more! I am sure this story is tame in comparison to other's, but I thought I'd add to the dialogue. Keep up the "good work" on your blog!
I'm so with you
I had the same thing happen to me unlike you I can't leave for fear if loosing family. You go your whole life being a respectable young woman and you make a mistake and they look at you like your disgusting human being . I couldn't believe the questions they were asking me. I learned my lesson don't talk or tell anyone anything, I don't care how bad it bothers you. Keep your thoughts to yourself . If it doesn't hurt your spouse it's none of the elders business .
Jennifer
sorry.. I meant to say, "my boyfriend and I had gone a little too far in our physical relationship." I didn't mean to suggest that I wasn't an active participant, I certainly was : )
Garbonzo
Thank you very much Lacy, for everything. I think I can attribute whatever writing skills I have to the computer, as I was chatting with people on forums, chat rooms, and video games ever since I began homeschooling. My brain is easily impressionable, so I can just pick words and vocabulary up from others. I was also criticized for my bad grammar when I first started, so that pushed me too lol. As I grew, I understood the importance of using complete sentences, etc. I am writing an article myself for my parents, and I've always wanted a simple, straight to the point article about the religion for a quick and easy summary of errors in the JW teachings. JWFacts is good for larger research, and Paul has done great with that site, but sometimes you just need the best points for the best errors.
There is also a project that I may want to join which involves self-publishing on Amazon a parody of the "Reasoning from the Scriptures" book. Countering a lot of JWs arguments, lol. I would like to make it cheap, only covering costs that need to be covered; the Amazon fees, etc. so that we can get it out there and read.
@Ben If you could please release the document now or later, that would be cool. The contents being separated would defeat the purpose of it being a summary...
Ben
@Garbonzo Okay, due to your request we will put the document up on JWB within 24 hours.
Ben
Lacy
"Garbonzo",
So nice to see you here! I was the one on Failblog.com who suggested you visit this site (user name was Cora). Your comments on Failblog about the JWs were very well versed, thought out, and true (you also have excellent writing skills which I assume can be attributed to your home schooling since public schools in the South don't usually produce students with those skills--I am in NC, so I know that). Which is more than I can say for most other contributors to that post. As you also have the intelligence to recognize on your own the foolishness of being a JW and yet have to balance it with still living at home with JW parents for now, I both applaud you and sympathize with you. If you haven't already, I strongly encourage you to read Raymond Franz's books "Crisis of Conscience" and "In Search of Christian Freedom". Very long books, but worth the read. I read them on the recommendation of this blog and found that a lot of what Franz wrote inspired the issues I put into my document or echoed the concerns I already had with the religion. You'll find you get smarter once you shed the collective brain of the JWs! Good luck gaining your freedom.
Lacy
Garbonzo
Wow. I don't think it's right at all that you are withholding the document! I know a lot of other people and myself that would like to take a look at it. Why not just make it public now? I don't understand. Help someone now, why later? You can upload it to putlocker or mediafire or many other file hosting sites, to save bandwidth.
Ben
Like we said, Garbonzo, we'll be going over it in future articles. Besides, I think there's plenty of content already on Jehovah's Witness Blog to help people - our goal is to keep going and expose even more of the lies Jehovah's Witnesses shovel.
Regards,
Ben









Sorry, the browser you are using is not currently supported. Disqus actively supports the following browsers:
FirefoxChromeInternet Explorer 8+Safari
This page is forcing your browser to use legacy mode, which is not compatible with Disqus. Please see our troubleshooting guide to get more information about this error.
We were unable to load Disqus. If you are a moderator please see our troubleshooting guide.
johnny
All jws think alike, same thing down here in the south pacific. Can you imagine crows and vultures in the new system of things,buffet time ,this birds would be so fat that they cant fly for months.
If only birds could talk i`m sure right now they must be counting days , months or years as for animals like lions and tigers their feast is right now for come armageddon too bad they go vegetarians.
Doesnt make any sense at all, predatory birds eat flesh while predatory animals go vegetarians in paradise.
If animals could talk they would go on strike in paradise.Not taking part in the big feast is unfair for all predatory animals.
Veronica
Ha! I remember my mother talking about this. I always loved Victorian architecture and whenever I saw a house I thought was beautiful, she would tell me that it will be mine someday. Don't remember anyone else talking about it though.
Dillen
JWs can keep on dreaming, but Armageddon ain't coming any time soon! I know if they spot my mansion or newly renovated house when door knocking, they're gonna be drooling and day dreaming all week at what kind of property they're going to be "moving into" and one of them is gonna be mine! OK, I'm bragging here -- sorry! I just like how well the blog is written and yes, I remember things like this and ME, claiming a mansion from one of my (secret) worldly heroes, if I were a JW who made it through Armageddon, such as Richard Branson? That is crazy talk! I can't imagine myself (living) LOOTING in his mansion or on HIS private island except visiting! Looting the dead is disgusting and how dare they say they hate the rich, yet will claim/drool over mansions!
Again, thank you for the well, well written blog! Love this so much! =} <3
Lufe
I even remember discussions while out going door to door about how the crows were getting bigger. Presumably in preparation for Armageddon.
Garbonzo
This is a very hard subject to research. If it is true, maybe the WTS doesn't want to bring it up too often for obvious reasons. But my research tells me that that scripture is symbolic... it is listed under symbolic. Not once have I heard about looting the dead, etc. or seeing dead bodies. I didn't spend much time in service down south (Tennessee), so I can only speak from NY and Ohio congregations. It doesn't really make sense to me, even if I believed in the religion. Why would we have to clean up the skeletons of the dead after we see dead bodies being eaten by worms and birds if God could do it? I can get my Dad to listen to that talk for "encouragement" and then lay on the questions after if a GB member really does say that! Thanks.
Merri-Ella
Garbanzo,
if it helps I don't recall ever "picking" out a house I wanted to live in after Armageddon. But I know some of my friends from other halls would eye certain houses. I just assumed it was their personal thing. But I also know that often times things are drastically different from one congregation to another.
Ben
@Garbonzo The Jehovah's Witnesses use this disgusting scripture in Jeremiah 25:33 to describe what post-armageddon Earth will be like, leaving nothing to the imagination when it comes to whether the bodies will be cleaned up or not. "And those slain by Jehovah will certainly come to be in that day from one end of the earth clear to the other end of the earth. They will not be bewailed, neither will they be gathered up or be buried. As manure on the surface of the ground they will become.’"
Also, who's to pick and choose which scriptures are symbolic or not? When it suits an agenda? 144,000 literal. 7 day creation symbolic. It's a joke. You'd think an almighty god could make sure his book would be understood easily, at least by his so-called own people!
Regards,
Ben
Lacy
I agree with Teeny and Ben. I am in the US and recall vivid talks about how the bodies would be piled up and the crows would be eating them and it would be our job to clean it all up (I think it was some reference to Jeremiah but don't have time to look it up now on my way out to work). Nothing was ever said to magically disappear. We were always told we would have to clean up the buildings that were destroyed, but that many would be left for us and the resurrected to live in. It was said that buildings would remain because we would have so much work to do cleaning up, that Jehovah would leave many houses so we would have somewhere to live while restoring the earth. Thus why it was common for people to eye up other houses that non-JWs owned.
These are things that were taught both in my congregations in Pennsylvania and South Carolina. Many of the elders came from other states as well. These are clearly widespread beliefs and behaviors that have found their way into other countries like the UK and Cyprus at the very least.
Lacy
Ben
Thanks Lacy. I hope you have a good day at work!
The fact of the matter is that the death of so many billions of people from a so called 'loving' god is disgusting and Jehovah's Witnesses are told to pray every day for this to occur! When they are taught to yearn for the horrific deaths of innocent children, their neighbor and colleagues, and they work a minimum wage job because the Society told them not to get a good education, many Jehovah's Witnesses slip into losing touch with their humane side and looking forward to the spoils.
Ben
Garbonzo
Heh. I guess this is a blog and you are relating your own experience, but I think it is important to differentiate official teaching and congregational interpretations. Growing up a Witness, we always daydreamed and envisioned building our own houses, on a nice green hillside with no buildings except other housing projects, maybe woods in the back, near a river or a beach, etc. Never looting other people's housing or occupying them. If you look at the official society pictures of Paradise, you will notice it is the same way. You never see buildings, whether they are destroyed or not. I always assumed the consensus (this is what my family and the brother and sisters in my congregations I have been to and my family's congregations have always said) was that all the buildings would vanish except for JW buildings and kingdom halls which would act as camp bases. We would live in tents in the meantime. Also, speaking about those destroyed. 99% of the population being destroyed is still awful, but everyone assumed that the bodies would disappear.
*** w83 11/15 p. 6 Life in Paradise—Will It Be Boring? ***
This building and planting program will last for a long time because housing will be needed not just for the Armageddon survivors but also for the billions who will return progressively during the resurrection. What endless possibilities there will be for architectural initiative and variety of design!—Revelation 16:14-16; 21:3, 4
Note it says "Armageddon survivors". If those who survive Armageddon will only be 1 - 10% (guessing) of those who have housing currently, why would we need to BUILD houses, if there are already those built we can live in?
*** kl chap. 19 p. 184 par. 10 When the Knowledge of God Fills the Earth ***
There will be plenty of enjoyable work to be done by Armageddon survivors. They will transform the earth into a paradise. Any vestiges of the polluted old system will be cleared away. Parks and gardens will emerge in place of slums and ruined land
Note it says the old system will be cleared away. I am guessing that means the old houses.
Unless you have official teachings quoted and cited, I think you should make a note or something saying this is only your experience or something. I think it was just a UK thing or a brother who thought that up and then it spread.
I am just saying this, because as ex-JWs we should be known for searching for the real truth on every matter, and we should not stoop down to the JW level by promoting lies or half-lies, etc.
If someone reading this wants to check official doctrine and they see no validicity of these statements, how will it look on ex-JWs as a whole? We may be leading people to JWs instead of steering them away.
It is important to not cross the fine line of helping people find the real truth and just being mad and aggressive at the WTS by any way you can. This will only prove the JWs right by the stigma that Apostates are angry people mad at the organization and wants to take their revenge with lies, etc.
Teeny
@Garbonzo,
You said, and I quote - "Also, speaking about those destroyed. 99% of the population being destroyed is still awful, but everyone assumed that the bodies would disappear."
Not wanting to be rude or anything like that - can I ask what religion you grew up in? If you were brought up as a Jehovah's Witness in Cyprus, I could understand (as JW upbringings on this island are lax) your reasoning. But you were brought up in the States, right?
This is taken from the New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures:

Revelation 19:17-18 I saw also an angel standing in the sun, and he cried out with a loud voice and said to all the birds that fly in midheaven: “Come here, be gathered together to the great evening meal of God, 18 that YOU may eat the fleshy parts of kings and the fleshy parts of military commanders and the fleshy parts of strong men and the fleshy parts of horses and of those seated upon them, and the fleshy parts of all, of freemen as well as of slaves and of small ones and great.”
The above scripture obviously wasn't detailed enough for the scholars in Brooklyn, so they had to add their own little charade.

"Worms will not stop swarming over the millions of bodies until the last body is eaten up. Birds and beasts also will eat their fill of human flesh until nothing is left but white bones." p. 207-210 From Paradise Lost to Paradise Regained


Note: Change "millions" to billions...
I don't want to sound as though I am bragging, but I can come up with Watchtower quotes all day if you like. If you like, take a look at this thread on JWN. It discusses the article I wrote. I think you'll find you're in the minority (of one) - http://www.jehovahs-witness.ne....
Kind regards,
Teeny
Ben
Hi Garbonzo,
Jehovah's Witness Blog takes a look at not only the official beliefs of Jehovah's Witnesses but the behaviour of its members as well. As you can see by the comments, hearing people talk about looting the dead is not a rare thing. In fact, not one thing we have written on this blog is a lie - we have the JWB promise which says that if you can show we have lied about anything, we retract it. Can't get fairer than that.
I don't understand why you think post-Armageddon will be clean and happy - Jehovah's Witnesses have taught from the platform that the dead will be everywhere and need cleaning up. A talk from a Governing Body member in 2007 discusses this clearly and next week we'll be putting the audio clip up.
Thanks for your opinion though.
Regards,
Ben
Lacy
It's nice/disturbing to know fellow JW's across the Atlantic were doing the same thing as we in America did while growing up! Somewhere in the world at this very moment is a car group driving around in service (probably doing return visits at opposite ends of the territory in between taking bathroom and donut shop breaks but still counting all that driving and break time on their time sheets) and discussing what houses they want. It is heartwarming to know that mass murder strengthens the bond of worldwide brotherhood!
Teeny
@Lacy.

"It is heartwarming to know that mass murder strengthens the bond of worldwide brotherhood!"
Well that's a quote that will stay with me until the crows come calling.











Sorry, the browser you are using is not currently supported. Disqus actively supports the following browsers:
FirefoxChromeInternet Explorer 8+Safari
This page is forcing your browser to use legacy mode, which is not compatible with Disqus. Please see our troubleshooting guide to get more information about this error.
We were unable to load Disqus. If you are a moderator please see our troubleshooting guide.
Ken
The sad fact of the matter is that simply too many people within the JW organization feel trapped and have been taught that everyone outside of their religion is "worldly" and part of Satan's system of things, they do not know where to go for help. They could not be further from the truth, not everyone outside of their organization is going to die because they aren't a Jehovah's Witness. The last time I checked the scriptures refer to Jesus in the Bible as a "friend of sinners," even he recognized the need to become active and involved in the world of his time. The last time I also checked, "worldly" is not even mentioned in the Bible. I was a JW for twenty years and I am so thankful for having left the organization. After many years of wandering I have become spiritually satisfied, graduated from seminary and I am a Christian. The bottom line is that there are many people of all different religious and ethnic backgrounds who find favor in the eyes of God. It is not up to us as individuals to judge a person and say that he or she is not going to find favor with the Lord, that is for the Lord himself to judge. God loves you and the real "Truth" will indeed set you free. I welcome any emails from individuals who need help at breaking away from this organization and my thoughts and prayers are with you all. adenkenneth@gmail.com
With Humble Blessings.
Ken
Northwestern Seminary
Jennifer
Are you serious!!?? I have been waiting for this (although I am a bit late to the news)! I left in 2004 and have been wondering how they are going to get around the whole"this generation will by no means pass away" line. Well, I was hoping it would crumble the foundation of the religion and people like my mother, who is incredibly faithful and is getting older--I'd really like for her to experience REAL life before old age catches up with her, and she dies a JW, separated from her daughters and grandchildren (she separates herself)--, would be released from the society's lies. OF COURSE they found a way around it!!! How blatantly deceitful!! It makes me both sick and sad....That is some "corner" they have!
Loudog44
wow...i am not alone! As a kid growing up in the 60's the whole JW thing was really getting revved up for the big 1975 blow out. and as we all know nothing happened. except a third of the group "falling way" from the "truth" I am here to say that the scars of that group of folks run deep with me. Both my mom and and brother still remain and i am basically an outcast. Question for the ex-JWs one of my lasting effects of being forced into that nonsense was while most normal kids were having birthdays, xmas etc and having their brains hardwired to enjoy such events those of us who were JW kids did not. Does anyone else kind of feel no real joy in holidays? my wife gets all happy at xmas and hates that i could care less. Not because dont want to...i just dont know how? i am 35 years out of that mess and still don't get the holiday spirit and really have to fake it pretty hard for those around me.
johnny
About 20 yrs ago the wts biggest enemy was satan now its the internet
jehovahs defender
who is the more knowledgeable the one who thus not read the bible like chatolics or the one who read and understand the bible prophecys and knows god name ...? like JW
Andrew
@Jehovahs Defender - Three comments on one post, and none of them make sense. The Watchtower are actually a lot like the Catholic Church you accuse of not being gods people. Just check out the latest news about the Jehovah's Witnesses Child Abuse scandal - http://www.jehovahswitnessblog...
jehovahs defender
well ... psalms says: those wicked ones will be vanish in earth ..
and the revelation 21:1 said that there will be a new earth and heaven then ... those wicked one will be vanish and will Jehovah destroyed them ..
jehovahs defender
Don`t u know what happen to you when you destruct the name of Jehovah, and put his name in to embarassment?
now i`ll tell u ...
psalms 37:10-11 .. who are the destructer of ones own bodily movement is a satans group...
Macdonald-R.S.A
excuse the missing Letters and words im typing while driving
Spankfish
@Macdonald-R.S.A - I know this is an old post, but If you get it come over to Facebook and join us on Ex-Jehovah's Witness Recovery Group 3! There are several gay memebers who may help you, plus ome ex-elders and a bunch of really nice people. Hope to see you there!
Teeny
@Macdonald-R.S.A.
Drive safely. It would be best to pull over and comment.
I see you're in Bahadurgarh now. Quite a way away from South Africa now. Are you travelling?
Also, I can tell you that Satan isn't behind this blog. From what I've seen, he pays quite well. If he is behind JWB, I've not seen a cent!
If you haven't read this article yet, I advise that you do - http://www.jehovahswitnessblog....
We're here to help you, so feel free to email us (when you're not driving). I personally wouldn't confide in the elders. What do they know? What training have they been given? Find out all you can about this cult and then make your move.
Regards,
Teeny
Macdonald-R.S.A
i realy dont know what to say real i dnt know whether to call it been brainwashed or maybe satan is realing using you i dont know im also kinda having doubts about JW ORGANSATION,im from Jw family i got baptisd 2005 im from SOUTH AFRICA i just came across ur blog on the net while trying do research about my secret that im living with IM GAY but scared to tell the elders theres alot of things or info i came across that finaly got me thinking n doubting whether this is a true religion because some of the thing i came across was about the translation of the big black book that it was translated in order to suit the organsation and also that the people who did the translation were not even qualified to translate and didnt even know the ancient languages i dont know if i should get out because my conscience still acting strongly and me being gay makes my life a living hell i wish i was never even born i even consider suicide and i still do im put on a smile when i go to meetings pretend as if all is fine and im happy but im not im scare to be disowned and diswhorshiped
Donnie Allen
I was baptized on December 25,1971 as one of Jehovah's Witnesses. I soon now will be 56 years old. I studied and researched deeply as a Christian member. Wherever I am I still feel my connection with the new birth. When I was disfellowshipped in 1996,the judicial committee even brought up my personal belief of a heavenly calling. They countered it with "mental imbalance" as I had had problems I later found out were no doubt genetic from both sides of my family and that I did not have that hope. Doctors had me misdiagnosed and on the wrong medications for 11 years from 1973-84. I felt like a "guinea pig" with the hell I went through but survived. OMG I thought who do these men think they are? I am glad the hope and new birth does NOT come from men or we would all be in a pickle. Peace and love to you all.
Ben
@Donnie - I don't understand. In fact, it's something I never understand - when someone rejects the Witnesses because they see through their false beliefs, but then cling on to some kind of off-shoot. It makes no sense as you can disprove both viewpoints with the same logic...
Ben
jilly
Great blog, I've been 'out and proud' for 6 years now, and don't think a great deal about it anymore, but I much prefer the rational reasoned approach of your writing. If only they weren't so brain washed, however as I used to be one of them and totally believed it at the time I know how it feels. Every one of my family members are still JWs, I wonder how long before they start to question!
Ben
Hi Jilly! Welcome to Jehovah's Witness Blog. Thanks for the compliments - both Teeny and I are happy that you enjoy our posts.
I have family members who are still Jehovah's Witnesses which is very frustrating because I've tried no end to tell them how it is, but, as you say, they are brainwashed and use illogical arguments. I hope that some of your family members will wake up, but even if not, you can be happy that you are free - I for one can't go a single day without appreciating how great it feels not to be in the cult. It really made a huge difference in my life and general happiness.
Ben
Rowland Nelken
How many Kingdom Hall attenders, do you think, no longer believe all the JW hogwash, but merely attend for family or other personal reasons?
Merri-Ella
oh my i would imagine many, many, many
Rowland Nelken
Ex and anti JW stuff on the net far outweighs the official bullshit, both in quantity and quality. The WBTS cannot cope with the interactive internet age. This excellent blog can only help the decline of the cult. As a JW kid in the 1950s it was the absolute Jehovah issued TRUTH that Armageddon was due before the death of the last annointed ones (qualifying date for admission, a pre 1914 JW baptism).
Teeny
@Rowland,
Cheers for the compliment mate.
Expect the 144,000 number to become symbolic any time soon.
Regards,
Teeny
Ben
@Rowland Thanks for your kind comments about Jehovah's Witness Blog. You are absolutely right that the internet has been a major problem for the Watchtower. Information is so freely available that anyone can find out the truth about the JWs and the UN, or lies they have made. It's also easy to check their quotes and see how they omit important bits. That is why they have so many rules about staying clear of 'apostate' sources, even if those sources are correct.
I think there are many, many Jehovah's Witnesses in the cult who are stuck there because, well, it's a cult. Fear of losing family and friends, support and being shunned as 'mentally diseased' people keep many in. It certainly slowed down my exit. How old were you when you got out, and what woke you up? I'd be very interested to hear your story.
Regards,
Ben
Guy Barton
You Have Spoken The Truth ! My Life Was Ruined By This Cult ! Evil People ! From Satan !
Sampson amens
Great article fellas. Keep up the good work. I have to go unfortunately, as I am apparently still a practising witness. It such a long hour though. I wish they would just pass around those emblems and allow us to go home!
Thanks for all the funny articles. You make my week. I've shown them to my sister too and she's secretly started to read through your website.
Praise Jah!
Fora Reilly
That picture is hilarious! Well done 3Mozzies!
My parents also told us the exact same thing - that this would be our last memorial. That was in 1988.
Ben
@Steven: That's a shame they won't publish the statistics, though here's hoping that it wakes some of the Witnesses up.
@Fora: Thanks for the comment!
@Sampson: So glad you like the site and it helps you get through the week. Tell your sister to tell her friends about JWB!
Also, go and 'Like' the JWB facebook page - www.facebook.com/JehovahsWitne...
Regards,
Ben
Steven Verilenko
I think they won't be publishing the partaker figures this year. I know many in my hall that questioned the elders about this and from what I read, Witnesses from all over the world have been raising questions about this.











Sorry, the browser you are using is not currently supported. Disqus actively supports the following browsers:
FirefoxChromeInternet Explorer 8+Safari
This page is forcing your browser to use legacy mode, which is not compatible with Disqus. Please see our troubleshooting guide to get more information about this error.
We were unable to load Disqus. If you are a moderator please see our troubleshooting guide.
Garbonzo
"The same is true of the teaching that the people of Noah’s day and Sodom and Gomorrah and the issue of resurrection. One sister flipped out on me when I said they would be resurrected along with everyone else. She insisted the Society says they won’t. They used to teach that, but once again changed their minds and just quietly slipped the correction in and then stopped discussing it."
http://www.jehovahs-witness.ne...
Garbonzo
"How are dinosaurs explained? I never heard in mentioned or read it anywhere in all my 15 years as a JW. If the creative days were 6,000 as purported, and animals and humans were created in the same time period, when exactly were there dinosaurs? There is plenty of physical evidence for the existence of dinosaurs (unlike most Biblical things), so we know they were here. When? Did they die in the flood? If so, why were they all excluded from the ark? Smaller ones would have fit. Even if they didn’t the ones that lived in water would have survived."
If you read the latest brochures, you can read their take on intelligent design. They believe that MAN had a history of 6000 years, but the Earth was however long scientists say it is, and that dinosaurs were created on the 5th day or something like that. I'm not sure what they said killed the dinosaurs.
Garbonzo
Because Ben is boring. =D










Sorry, the browser you are using is not currently supported. Disqus actively supports the following browsers:
FirefoxChromeInternet Explorer 8+Safari
This page is forcing your browser to use legacy mode, which is not compatible with Disqus. Please see our troubleshooting guide to get more information about this error.
We were unable to load Disqus. If you are a moderator please see our troubleshooting guide.
Marvin
Well I was involved also with the JW also and I did research them also I have also come to the conclusion that they are a cult too they met with me and I said to them why have they changed the bible and why have they lied to me also they could not answer me so I told them I did not want to be involved with them either so we parted our ways too so I do feel better too I know what I believe in now too and how to please Jesus too so that is my story too
None
You didn't provide a source for your definitions, and your definitions are completely built around the JW religion, not a general description of a cult.
B_LO
this is too funny. too funny. alright we i get it. u don't agree with Jehovah's Witness beliefs, but you went and made a page named "Jehovah's Witness Blog" LOL, so that you could all agree on your disagreement. hahahahaha. too funny. why waste your time? if you really know the truth about GOD, then why the web page? what i think is happening is, you so called "ex-witnesses" need some re-assurance that u were making the right decision by leaving the congregation, so u seek out other people opposed to the scripture, to make u feel better. PLEASE TELL ME WHAT YOUR NEW RELIGION IS, SO THAT I CAN DISSECT IT AND BRING YOU MORE OF THE DISCOMFORT THAT YOU ARE RUNNING FROM
Andrew
Have you ever stopped to consider that we left for valid reasons? The point of our blog is to expose some of the sickening policies of JWs that hurt people, leave children to be repeatedly molested, and others to die because of the blood stance. Of course, the very word 'apostate' means you'll ignore everything we say, even though it's true.
B_LO
alright my bad, i was being insensitive. i know people want to commit to the faith & let the elders of the congregation guide them but when it comes to the children a few things come to mind. 1. know where your child is at all times. 2. if your child is in the care of a brother/sister and something inappropriate happens, KICK ASS!!! beat the breaks off of the offender, then put him/her in jail (i don't think GOD would even be mad if you went to the law). then talk to the elders. if the offender can be forgiven for his crimes, then you should be forgiven for KICKIN' ASS. that's what i would do. but if after, you are treated differently then you should find a new congregation. if you are disfellowshipped, (mind you I don't know exactly how that works) then do what you want. the elders try to keep order but they are imperfect humans like everyone else. no one wants their faith to be in the public spotlight for sex crimes so i can believe some of the accusations of cover-ups. on the other hand, just because a crime happened among members of a congregation, doesn't make it public Jehovah's Witness matter. i mean, its not Jehovah's Witnesses' fault it happened, it's ONE defect. point him out & throw him out. but you need only approach the elders when a problem cannot be solved. you can solve throwing somebody in jail on your own, and let the offender explain to the elders. if the elders tell you to drop charges, then they are wrong. that is when it can become a public matter, but it probably be best if it just stayed a regular old criminal offense. like i said, the Witnesses didn't do it, the elders "at that congregation" just didn't handle it right, and there really isn't a higher branch to go to, so just find a new congregation. remember in the new test. when all the letters were being written to all the congregations talking about what they were & were not doing, what they were should & should not be doing, & so forth? those people were screwing up too. not all congregations are the same. they should be, but we're dealing with imperfect humans. you'll be surprised to learn that I am not a Baptized minister & haven't been to a Hall in about 3 years, but that's just because I suck, lazy, etc. //as far as blood. We ARE our blood. that is the main part of us. mix it & we are someone else almost. did u know that your DNA reacts to your emotions even when it is not in your body & is several miles away. GOD said to abstain from blood, & there are alternative medical procedures, the hospitals just don't "want" to do them. you have to make them & you usually don't have a lot of time. my sister had to get a blood transfusion or she would have died. my dad who is baptized couldn't say anything cause she was a grown woman. he didnt want her to die & if she was unable to sign the form for the transfusion he probably would have signed it who knows. if u lose your life for the faith, you gain it. it's a tough decision, but that's just what the bible says, abstain from blood. don't eat it, don't drink it, and in the same sense, don't inject it. I will listen to all your concerns because remember I am not baptized so if someone is labeled apostate, it isn't my concern. I just know A LOT. enough to be baptized. as far as the Witnesses' teachings and prophecy I think the Witnesses are on point. but you have concerns & I'm sorry this is so long. it's just that some others on this site rubbed me the wrong way which is why I came off sarcastic.
B_Low
i already heard about that case right when it happened. still my stance is the same. as soon as this sort of child abuse is brought to the attention of an adult (namely the parent), the abuse STOPS THERE. if it continues, the parents are to blame. children don't get molested repeatedly over a period of time, after a responsible adult finds out. if the parents didn't alert the authorities, it's their own fault. HOW THE HELL DOES YOUR CHILD GET MOLESTED AGAIN, BY THE SAME PERSON, AFTER YOU'VE FOUND OUT ABOUT THE FIRST OCCURRENCE. YOU MEAN TO TELL ME YOU DIDN'T CALL THE POLICE!? YOU MEAN TO TELL ME, YOU LEFT YOUR CHILD ALONE WITH THE PERP AGAIN!? that kind of parenting has me scratching my head. nothing in the Jehovah's Witness policy that I've seen states that the parents shouldn't report the crime to the authorities. in fact it says quite the contrary. don't believe me? here's a link to kill the lies.
http://thirdwitness.com/childa...
****chapter 2. the two witness rule should be perfect for you
now after you have read the policy, you can NEVER AGAIN SAY & I quote you "It isn’t individual defect JW who abuse children. It’s the very policy of the Jehovah’s Witnesses that actually help the molesters get away with it and carry on! They require two witnesses and also in most cases do NOT report it to the police"
before, you didn't know the policy, and you spoke out of ignorance, but after you have read it, you are no longer ignorant on the subject, and any further bashing, is LYING.
kill the lies
NEXT....
Andrew
You've got your fingers in your ears and you're going 'la la la la la' - you are completely overlooking the big picture. If what you say is true, the Watchtower wouldn't have been found culpable.
Andrew
No, B_LO - you are missing the point. It isn't individual defect JW who abuse children. It's the very policy of the Jehovah's Witnesses that actually help the molesters get away with it and carry on! They require two witnesses and also in most cases do NOT report it to the police. The Watchtower just lost a huge 28 million dollar court case about this - they didn't even appeal. Guilty as charged. End of story. See http://www.jehovahswitnessblog...
If you seriously want the 'truth', open your eyes and actually read what we say here. Research what we say for yourself. Go find out when 607 was really destroyed. Go read about the child abuse policies. Go read about the association with the UN. All the evidence is there, whether you like it or not.
johnny
You know you are in a cult when leaders threaten abused victims to shut the hell up or else, you know you are in a cult when you are given the silent treatment for doin the right thing ,you know you are in a cult when you are disowned by your own parents, you know you are in a cult when they would rather let you die then to break the rules ,you know you are in a cult when you cant even make your own decisions.
Michael
Even if what everything you said is true and that is the definition of a cult I wouldn't mind being one of them, lol. Still sounds pretty good as compared to other religions.
The thing that puts me off is the service and having to predicate, I'm too lazy.
Andrew
So you desire to be an abject slave, then.
Dale Mowday
JW = cult Cult CULT.
Lacy
A friend was saying the other day how happy she is that I am no longer "in that Jehovah's Witness cult". I told her it wasn't a cult, just a religion. Yet after reading this and now numerous other articles online about cults (they weren't even mentioning JWs, just cults in general), I see I will have to reassess. Amazingly, there are more signs that fit the JWs:
Can your “friends” keep a secret?
Gossip runs rampant amongst cult leadership and members, in spite of referring to themselves as “family” and “friends.” Lower-tier individuals eager to slink up the ranks attempt to earn the trust of their peers, relaying any whispers of insubordination to their superiors. These shady communities encourage members to spy on one another and report back.
Do you have to go to a meeting to even understand what the organization is about?
.http://www.christiancollegeson...
Howcultswork.com mentions so many other good points that I would love to share, but then this would be way too lengthy. Go read it and the discussions on mind control especially. Kind of scary how familiar all that sounds!









Sorry, the browser you are using is not currently supported. Disqus actively supports the following browsers:
FirefoxChromeInternet Explorer 8+Safari
This page is forcing your browser to use legacy mode, which is not compatible with Disqus. Please see our troubleshooting guide to get more information about this error.
We were unable to load Disqus. If you are a moderator please see our troubleshooting guide.
ResLight
Actually, the Bible Students movement in general never was "renamed to Jehovah's Witnesses" in 1931. Before that name was adopted, by 1928, over 75% of the Bible Students rejected Rutherford's new organization and his new message related to that organization. Indeed, one of the main reasons that Rutherford himself gave for adopting this new name was to distinguish his organization from the Bible Students, who continued to preach the message that they had learned from Russell, while refusing to preach Rutherford's new "organization" message.
Russell himself preached against the kind of organization that Rutherford created after Russell died. Rutherford, not Russell, was the founder of the Jehovah's Witnesses organization. Russell was certainly not the founder of that which he preached against.
Something else Russell rejected that the Second Adventists taught related to the end of the world is the idea that only a few would be saved while most of the world would be eternally lost. In this regard, Rutherford adopted a teaching very similar to that teaching of the Second Adventists that Russell had earlier rejected and preached against. Rutherford's new light on Armageddon was actually a twist to what some of the JWs might call "old light" of the Second Adventists.
The original Millerite movement crossed denominational lines and consisted of members of many different denominations; its effect was a non-sectarian attitude amongst many who took up Miller's cause.
Russell endeavored to teach such non-sectarianism, and he himself stated his belief, as was printed in the "Bible Students Monthly" of 1915 (less than two years before he died):
Quote:
I hold, and few, if any, will dispute it, that the one catholic or general Church of Christ is that mentioned in the Bible -- "the Church of the Firstborns, written in Heaven." If this be admitted, my next proposition is that the Lord in Heaven records as members of His true Church all the saintly - whether Roman Catholics, Anglican Catholics, Greek Catholics, Baptists, Methodists, or Presbyterians, etc. -- and none others.
Have we not here the one Church, catholic, universal, the only Church which the Bible recognizes? In the past we have been too narrow and have supposed that God was as narrow as ourselves. It was on this account that Presbyterians, Roman Catholics, Anglicans, Baptists, Methodists persecuted and were persecuted, each thinking itself the true Church. Are we not all getting broader conceptions of our God and of His Church? Do we not see that we were mistaken in calling the outward organization the Church of Christ instead of remembering that the Lord alone writes the names of the Church, that He alone reads the hearts, that He alone is the Judge, and that He alone has the right to blot out the names of reprobates?
St. Paul wrote against sectarianism, already manifest in his day-some saying :"I am of Paul"; others, "I am of Peter"; etc. The Apostle asks, "Is Christ divided:" (1 Corinthians 1:10-13) He explains that these sectarian names signified a spirit of division that failed to recognize the true Head of the Church, His true representatives and His true members. The entire foundation of divided Christianity would disappear and the true Church of Christ be speedily manifest, if true catholicity were acknowledged.
:Endquote
However, at the same time, Russell did not seem to fully aware that his teaching of a physical harvest was resulting in what could be called a "sect" similar to that which he preached against.
Rob Crompton
"Their first main point is that a sect is a group that is an offshoot of another religion, and that this doesn’t apply to Jehovah’s Witnesses."
You are quite right to point out the Watchtower movement's origins within Miller's followers. In fact, the roots within the protestant mainstream go quite deep. Enthusiasm for pinpointing the time of the second coming in prophecy took off early in the 19th century when it looked like events of the French Revolution fulfilled the prophecies. Folk worked out pretty elaborate systems of dates leading to the final climax. And it all stayed well within the mainstream until after the failure of Miller's ideas. Miller himself was a Baptist and remained so until his death. But afterwards the splinter groups began to form and Russell' was one of them.
So, yes, of course the WT movement is a sect. But I'm not sure how helpful the terminology is because it tends to give folk in the mainstream the impression that they are something entirely different - when, in fact, sectarian and cult-like characterstics are present within the mainstream. And lead to similar problems.










Sorry, the browser you are using is not currently supported. Disqus actively supports the following browsers:
FirefoxChromeInternet Explorer 8+Safari
This page is forcing your browser to use legacy mode, which is not compatible with Disqus. Please see our troubleshooting guide to get more information about this error.
We were unable to load Disqus. If you are a moderator please see our troubleshooting guide.
Sally
LOL! Well done!
exjwshunned
Bravo..... that was too "f"ing funny, very good read, thanks for the laughs!! I find humor is the only way for me to cope with my brainwashed family.
Ben
@exjwshunned - Glad you liked it!
Ben
Sampson amens
Absolutely funny! I do all of this as well and more!!!!
Teeny
@Sampson.
Cheers mate. There was a lot I didn't add, like incest and learning to snipe window-cleaners...
Regards,
Teeny










Sorry, the browser you are using is not currently supported. Disqus actively supports the following browsers:
FirefoxChromeInternet Explorer 8+Safari
This page is forcing your browser to use legacy mode, which is not compatible with Disqus. Please see our troubleshooting guide to get more information about this error.
We were unable to load Disqus. If you are a moderator please see our troubleshooting guide.
johnny
@angrygirl07 i hope that one day you will know the truth abt the jw org the truth will set you free. who knows may be next time we might see @happygirl07 free at last.
johnny
imperfect men that are being guided by the "holy spirit"
angrygirl07
I'm not one and even I know your blog is full of s**t and @ spiritual brother there not predictions there prophecys get real...@dillen there's only pressure to be perfect if you put that on yourself in any religion ...@rosemary cults are groups that have seclusion and privacy I doubt there hooded people behind closed doors and rob?? Please they have a choice no one is making them stay and apostate? I read somewhere that they just didn't get there way so or the answer they wanted so now they spread lies and hate and I think that's pretty pathetic if you have no life lololol
andy
you say cults have seclusion and secrecy so what exactly are the elders and their secret elders book called shepherd the flock of god. you wont have seen this book unless of course you look for a copy on the internet as its a closely guarded secret by the elders and the bethel.
Andrew
@angrygirl07 - You say we lie and are "full of s**t". So, show us the evidence. Go on. I'm so sick of people like you trashing what we have written without providing a shred of evidence to back it up. The JWB promise is fair - provide evidence we lied and we'll retract it with public apology. So go on. Consider the gauntlet thrown.
Spiritualbrother
Great points. When it comes to failed predictions I think the WT holds the record.
Dillen
It's good to be out of it because the pressure to be perfect sucks and it's only my second little sister who is still in it and refuses to leave it. I do feel sorry for her because she picks family outings over boring assembly meetings and it sickens me so much!
rosemary osborn
It is a cult always hasbeen always will be. It is sickening to me what they have done. It has
robbed me of 2 sister and a brother that I love and miss sooo much as they are controlled by
that cult religion and I am now an apostate because I read beyond their Watchtower faults.
I pray every day to be reunited with them-may they someday see the lies.
gee
Define cult. Because I can tell you thousands of nasty things that the churches are doing that God hates but satan have blinded the minds of people...









Sorry, the browser you are using is not currently supported. Disqus actively supports the following browsers:
FirefoxChromeInternet Explorer 8+Safari
This page is forcing your browser to use legacy mode, which is not compatible with Disqus. Please see our troubleshooting guide to get more information about this error.
We were unable to load Disqus. If you are a moderator please see our troubleshooting guide.
Andres
I love it when the Watchtower ask Who published this material? What are the author’s credentials? Why was this published? What motivated the writer? Is there any bias? Where did the author get the information? Does he supply sources that can be checked? Is the information current?”
First of all the Watchtower themselves don't even follow that line of thought and research. They quote Trinitarians and don't quote them in context. The Watchtower does not supply references or sources where one can check the quotes. I mean really. These men of The Watchtower are so hypocritical and nauseating.
Linda
"There are two plastic cups that are joined by string. Jehovah has one and the other is firmly pressed against the Governing Body’s ear."
Love it. Thanks for the chuckle.
Jason
You have to laugh
“Do not become an “Internet Eve.” Be critical and suspicious of the information. Before trusting it, ask:
(1) Who published this material? The Watchtower & Bible Tract Society
What are the author’s credentials? Took a creative writing course
(2) Why was this published? To instill paranoia and fear
What motivated the writer? The internet has allowed anyone to access information that we would rather sweep under the rug. We have to try and put a stop to it.
Is there any bias? Of course not. Jehovah speaks through us and we have a responsibility to make sure everyone continues to worship him and we have to do it any way we can. Afterall, their lives depend on it.
(3) Where did the author get the information? Cult Management for Dummies!
Does he supply sources that can be checked? Sometimes, but always hoping no one will actually check it, then they might see how it has been used out of context.
(4) Is the information current? Until Jehovah gives us NEW LIGHT!
Watchtowers really are written at a primary school level. It is actually quite amusing to read the articles and see how simple they are as if written for children.
Trudy Zelenka
So, if we are 'in Christ', then we are 'in the Truth'. There are many false Christs parading around as shepherds of God. One must be very discerning to know whether or not a spiritual teacher is actually a true follower of Christ or a fake who makes disciples after their own selves. If the Watchtower Governing Body were true followers of Christ, they would make sure all those being taught by them would be partaking of the bread and wine passed during the "Lords' supper', It was meant for all true followers of Christ. Before Christ departed he gave his Jewish disciples a commandment. What did he say to them?
"Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I commanded you;
( Matthew 28:19-20 )
compare:
Exodus 31:13
“Say to the Israelites, ‘You must observe my Sabbaths.
Now, the word, 'observe' does not mean to become an onlooker, that is, someone who watches others do it and not do it yourself. What would have happened to an Israelite if he did not observe the Sabbath? He would have displeased God and would have been punished.
Now, did Christ teach his disciples to pass the wine and bread without eating or drinking of it? Of course Not! So now, why has the Gov. Body taught their members to disregard the bread and wine? Especially since Christ said that he would resurrect all those who ate of it and drink of it. ~
Truly! It is not about having some kind of 'feeling' or seeing an apparition' to know whether or not one should partake; no no! It is much more than that! It is about OBEDIENCE to the Words of Christ.
Trudy Zelenka
Wisdom and discernment is necessary when reading Watchtower articles. Beware; look up the scriptures quoted in each paragraph to see if whether or not they pertain to the convincing argument. The 'us against 'them public talks are meant to convince Jehovah's Witnesses that they are 'in the truth' but all others are lead by Satan. Now, mmm what does it mean to be 'in the truth?'
John 14:6, Christ said, "I am the truth". But the Watchtower organization has made their members believe the Watchtower is 'the truth'. Check it out for yourself. How many times the new testament uses the phrase " IN CHRIST". Now this phrase is completely foreign to a Jehovah's Witness. Why? because the Watchtower representatives hide ' the truth' from their members. What a paradox!
Debbie Moore
I am amazed to see that the WTBTS says to use "thinking ability" because since when have JWs been allowed to THINK ANYTHING FOR THEMSELVES??? I cannot count the number of times I was PRIVATELY COUNSELLED by a COMMITTEE about my INDEPENDENT THINKING and how WRONG it was to actually use my God-given brain for the purpose of thinking!!!!! OMG and since when were JWs ever allowed to research WHO wrote their BIBLE - speaking of knowing the credntials and background of what one is reading. I did not know til AFTER I left being a JW after being raised as one 45 yrs that the ones that wrote The New World Translation were 5 men on the GB who did NOT KNOW HEBREW or GREEK were the ones that wrote it!! Obviously not QUALIFIED as was brought out in Court!!! This article REEKS of lies and paranoia because if some, like I did, started actually doing their own research and not just go by what they've been brainwashed to believe and yeah I was brainwashed by them too, but I broke free because since I was a little kid, I had questions nobody could even begin to answer! Thats one reason nobody wanted to call on me to comment because I always had a question to go along with it!! LOL! Godspeed on GETTING OUT OF HER MY PEOPLE IF YOU DO NOT WANT TO SHARE WITH HER IN HER FATE!!! Get out of the FALSE PROPHET THAT THE WATCHTOWER SOCIETY IS FRIENDS BEFORE IT IS TOO LATE!!!
Dizzy
Oh crap!
I read this article on the internet and didn't cheack all the crudentials over the top and didn't listen to the Watchtower organization in thier paranioa and fear of people finding out the real truth about their twisted organizational cult.
I can feel God's judgement in my belly... no wait! Thats just gas.
Good work at showing how the Watchtower go about trying to control people who blindly follow










Sorry, the browser you are using is not currently supported. Disqus actively supports the following browsers:
FirefoxChromeInternet Explorer 8+Safari
This page is forcing your browser to use legacy mode, which is not compatible with Disqus. Please see our troubleshooting guide to get more information about this error.
We were unable to load Disqus. If you are a moderator please see our troubleshooting guide.
Dizzy
Very true. Its like they are trying to brainwash their children into the religion before they truely understand what is happening.
Any young person in the organization are pressured into getting baptized. Let kids be kids.
At least sites like this help people to open their mind and find the real truth about such a corrupt organization.
Jade
Actually the kids choose if they want to serve jehovah not their parents!!!!
Andrew
@Jade - Now read the article properly. Don't just skim read and then make an ignorant comment. It clearly makes the point that children can not fully understand what decision they are making.










Sorry, the browser you are using is not currently supported. Disqus actively supports the following browsers:
FirefoxChromeInternet Explorer 8+Safari
This page is forcing your browser to use legacy mode, which is not compatible with Disqus. Please see our troubleshooting guide to get more information about this error.
We were unable to load Disqus. If you are a moderator please see our troubleshooting guide.
Laura
Love this article. Also grew up with a father and many relatives who are JW's. worst experiences of my life. Cannot stand their religion. It's very unfortunate that so many are blinded by their teachings. So many double standards, hypocrisies. I can go on and on. I just hope people do their research before and pray for guidance not to be mislead. The truth of the matter is about having an honest and true relationship with God and following His teachings. I'd say the JW's should spend more time doing this than setting non-biblical based rules that define their entire means of living.
Kacie
Laura i am a jehovahs Witnes i am not here to discuss but , Matthew 24;14 says " and these good news shall be preached around the world" and what do you see us do ? were are going door to door to preach a, just like god says in the bible , and many more things we do what god tells us to do , and i dont think its awful? when you see us from door to door or at meetings you see us HAPPY not complaining, maybe somthing misunderstanding happend to you
smmcroberts
Kacie,
The point of this article was not about preaching, but about how the Watchtower has added its own silly laws and enforced them as if they came from God. It makes one wonder about the reliability and motives of the Governing Body as well as the quality of what they preach.
Many religions preach, some of them even door-to-door. I've had more Mormons come to my door than Witnesses. So preaching doesn't make your religion unique.
But what about the CONTENT of the message being preached? Is it really "good news" that seven billion people are about to die horrible, violent deaths at the hands of your "loving" god? Are you truly "HAPPY" about bringing people that message?
Do you tell the people at the door the whole truth about your religion? Do you tell them about how ALL of your religion's prophecies in the past have failed? Or that your policies allow pedophiles immunity from being reported to the authorities?
Do you tell them that if they join your religion they'll have to give up non-Witness friends and refuse life-saving medical treatment for themselves and their children? That their children could be put in potential danger from known--but unidentified--child molesters lurking at the Kingdom Hall (often in the guise of elders)?
Do you tell them that in the "Earthly paradise" there won't be sex and probably not marriage, and that their dead loved ones will only come back as surrogates implanted with their memories? Or that if they should ever step out of line in the Old Order they will be shunned, and in the New Order they will be instantly zapped by God?
Yes, Kacie, you may be preaching, but it's not what I would call good news. To use your word, I would actually call it "awful."
There's another verse in the Bible you're probably familiar with that says something about "false prophets" arising in the "last days" to "mislead many." How do you know that your organization is not fulfilling THAT prophecy rather than MT 24:14? It seems to fit the historical facts of the Watchtower religion precisely.
Kacie, you seem to be a nice person. So what are you doing in a religion such as this?
Laura
I don't recall ever criticizing the fact that you guys go preach door to door. I think that is a great thing, certainly because that is what God says to do. But you all have it all wrong. You all are not true Christians. Although that's what you claim. I honestly believe your doctrine of the Bible is VERY distorted. Why do you only use your Jehovah's Witness version of "the Bible"? Why don't you use other kinds? Maybe you should compare what the other versions say. I guarantee it would be different, because I've already seen. What about proclaiming Christ as your Savior? Being saved? Do you all even believe in that? 1st John 4:14 "And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world." You must give your life up for Christ!
What about the 144,000 you guys claimed would be the only ones to reign with "Jehovah"?? Didn't you have to change that message because there were more Jehovah's Witnesses as time went on?
lily may
I am a Jehovah's Witness. Yes, most things were true but if you ask questions to someone who isn't a Jehovah's Witness you will not get the most accurate answer. If you go to our official website jw.org you will answers to many questions you might have. click about us and to your left there it will say Frequently asked questions about Jehovah's Witnesses. If you do not get the question would like answered why don't you find a congregation in your neighborhood. Hope this helps.
Cheryl Darby
In my opinion, not celebrating birthdats, etc., is designed to further alienate Witnesses from family nembers who are non-Witnesses. It certainly destroyed our family.
Merri-Ella
It's funny, I was raised in "the truth". I also went to public school from preschool all the way through high school. That being said, most of the kids I went to school with knew that I didn't celebrate birthdays. I would assume the teachers would try to explain to the kids why I left when there was a birthday celebration. My mother used to accompany me on the first day of every school year, so she could hand the brochure (something about Jehovah's Witness children and school, it was blue). She would give them the brochure and hit the highlights, of what I would not be participating in, and she would answer basic questions.
Occasionally, a new student would move into the area, or someone I'd known for years would get curious enough to ask just why we did not celebrate birthdays, and they wanted a REAL answer. Not just, well I'm a Jehovah's Witness. The only answer I could really give them was the 2 accounts of someone being killed at birthday parties. It was so embarrassing to not really have a good answer. You know? Any of the holidays I could go all day explaining why we didn't celebrate those; but not birthdays. Never made alot of sense to me, at least not biblically anyway.
johnny
No where in the bible does it say that christians are not to celebrate birthdays. That is the problem with the wts they tell you what type of clothes to wear what to eat how to make love how to talk who not to talk to...the bible says not to judge people on what they are eating or what they are celebrating.
Cheryl Darby
Thank you.









Sorry, the browser you are using is not currently supported. Disqus actively supports the following browsers:
FirefoxChromeInternet Explorer 8+Safari
This page is forcing your browser to use legacy mode, which is not compatible with Disqus. Please see our troubleshooting guide to get more information about this error.
We were unable to load Disqus. If you are a moderator please see our troubleshooting guide.
Pete
Stumbled upon your blog by mere chance but it made my 3 hour wait at an airport lounge interesting.
What’s even more interesting is that I personally know the people you mention. I grew up on that dreaded island in a family of JW’s. Before my 18th birthday I left both the cult and the family. I’ll spare you the ugly details but for me it was the only way to survive. Long story short, I have been living in a far away land for almost 30 years now and have since reconciled with the family under one condition. No mention or any type of discussion related to JW beliefs is to be brought up while I visit. Yes, it’s sort of ignoring the huge elephant in the room but perhaps the only alternative to shutting them out of my life altogether.
Blind faith does not leave room for reason with JWs so any type of discussion is pointless. What’s important in my opinion is to tell JW family members what their beliefs and actions have done to you as an individual and how damaging their shunning is to kids and adults.
My family had the decency to aknowledge wrongdoing (pulling the old card of course that “new light has changed all that”) and that was good enough for me.
Keep up the good work Andrew. It helps more than you think. Oh, and if you ever want to know more about the people whose names you mentioned in your posting, email me. I’ve got dirt that would knock your socks off!
MATT MENIN
I came across ur forum by accident m after reading the comments i became very emotional, i really felt that my lonlyness deep with my physce had just been released, I am 40 years old and left the "truth" 23 years ago, I struggled for about 5 years with "demons" after i turned my back on the society. resulting in many sleepless nights fighting with the demons, my beleifs remained 50/50 for this period, eventually i freed these demons and am now an "apostate" my dark days of cleansing myself from this cult remained deep within myself as i felt no one would understand , infact the nonsense that was in my head at this point could well have got me sectioned .lol
the only concern in my life is how can i let my family no that what they are doing is so far from the real truth , and they are being fooled
thx so much for letting me realise that there are others who have experienced the same as Me
Andrew
Hi Matt, sorry to hear you struggled because of religion. Welcome to JWB, where most of us understand what you've been through as we've had the same. Feel free to always communicate your experiences and reach out to the JWB community.
JW
hey !!!.. fellas ... stop what are u doing , . . . . . JW is a peaceful religion ... i`m also a Jehovahs Witnesses .. if you dont like Jehovahs witnesses . it means you make JEhovah god angry .. and as the matter of fact.,. the last days of the world is nearer .. why wont u become serious .. and please be matured ,, becoz as i saw the message of urs ,,, i tell u the truth u are not matured ,,, all of u ...
for me i believe in Jehovah .. and this organization is the one of the chosen of Jehovah God .. isaiah 43:10-11
Steve
JW,
1. Instead of answering our questions, the WT just resorted to name calling (calling us "mentally diseased"), and you're calling US immature?!
2. You say "JW is a peaceful religion". I don't think it's "peaceful" to contemplate how you'll "rejoice" at the destruction of billions of non-JWs. Nor is it "peaceful" to be required to hate apostates. (That's right: the WT has ORDERED you to "hate, loathe, and detest" anyone who has come to their senses and left your cult.
3. How do you know what makes "Jehovah god angry"? Does he speak to you directly or via visions, or what? For all we know the thing that really tics him off is a religion calling themselves by his name which makes embarrassingly stupid statements like this one.
4. The Scripture you quoted (Isaiah 43:10-11) disproves your contention. It states that you are to witness to the fact that there was no god formed after Jehovah. Yet you witness to the belief that Jesus (as "the Word") is "a god" formed after Jehovah. This is why, when the verse used to appear on the cover of every Watchtower magazine, they only quoted the first part of verse 10. They couldn't even quote one entire verse of the Bible without giving away one of the many inherent contradictions in their doctrine!
"Chosen of Jehovah God"? Thanks for the laugh of the day!
Andrew
@JW - It's a shame that so many Jehovah's Witnesses know so little about their religion. Try actually reading our articles before dismissing us. You find something we write that is untrue, show us and we'll retract it. I think that's a fair deal, don't you?
Also, I don't believe Jehovah exists, but if he did, I still wouldn't want to worship such an evil being. Have you actually read the Bible where he condones slavery, genocide, infanticide and more?
And your organization is not chosen by god - no evidence for that, and if so, God must like false prophets (lookup why 1975 was so important in your religion), and people who cover up child abuse (see the New York Times today).
DeRanged Jdub
I have been on the line for a long time now. Everyone will have a specific pet peeve or stumbling block. So with that all I can say is that lately... Since before the Memorial this year... Everything from the platform is more and more intense - almost hysterical. Everything coming from the platform is more controlling, and manipulative. I am dreading both the special day, and the district convention this year! I don't have an issue with the behaviors - like when it comes down to it there is no forgiveness or love, or the ability to ask questions. My issues are doctrinal. Mentally ill? oh you must be demonized. The fruit that Eve wasn't allowed to eat? That was the ability to think for yourself...
Daniel7
@LaDovia: Your right. Not all congregations are the same. Some are horrible. I was in what I call “The Congregation from hell” for 12 years. Even when Israel was burning its children alive Jehovah God still used Israel. Jehovah was on it and did clean out the bad apples. Our responsibility is to have as good a relationship with Jehovah God as we can and preach as much as we can. He will take care of the rest.
Andrew
@Daniel7: How convenient. So when something bad happens, it's human error. When something good happens, thank Jehovah! He can never lose, can he?! Just have patience until god sorts it out... and in the meantime, the congregations protect child molesters and more innocent people die by being denied blood transfusions. When will you people learn? Your god is immoral and cruel. In your own bible he condones genocide, infanticide, slavery and more. I am glad that he doesn't exist, and even if he did, I would not want to worship such a capricious and evil being.
LaDovia
I grew up as a Jehovah's Witness but stopped going when I was able to make my own decisions. I may not agree with everything they teach or believe, but I do know that not every congregation is the same. And not every Jehovah's Witness is the same. It's all about the person and how they perceive what they hear. Not all Jehovah's Witnesses are the same. You have some who are nasty to everyone, including to other Witnesses. There are some who put on faces. And then there are the ones who are polite to everyone even to non-Witnesses. They even have friends outside of the 'Truth' and have not been disfellowshipped.
How can you expect someone to understand you when you don't understand them? That goes for everyone in this world, including Jehovah's Witnesses. Like I said, not all congregations are the same. So please don't judge all Jehovah's Witnesses by the ones you have encountered because not all of them feel the same. That's like judging someone because of the color of their skin or because of the things they don't have or the fact that they don't smile enough to suit you, etc.etc. If one black, Asian, white, Hispanic, or any other race, acts one way, does that mean everyone of that race acts the same way? No, it doesn't. It's called stereotyping.
So, please don't judge all Jehovah's Witnesses by the one's you have encountered. Thank you.
Andrew
@LaDovia: Thanks for the comment. I agree that not every Jehovah's Witness is the same, and we don't judge each one as the same. Jehovah's Witnesses, even if they are good people, are taught directly by the Watchtower Society to shun people, or deny blood treatment to their children. The majority of JWs follow these rules. Each individual may or may not agree, but if they say they disagree out loud, they get problems from the elders and can even be disfellowshipped for it.
Thing is, there may be many groups that do good things, but have one or two things that I disgree with. So, I do not become a member of such a group, nor do I go out recruiting for more members. My moral outlook tells me that if I disagree with a group, I should not promote it, support it and identify myself with it. Likewise, any Jehovah's Witness who knows something is wrong with the religion and doesn't follow the rules is either trapped because it is a cult and they could lose their friends and family, or they are hypocrites. I don't see another option, but I am open to suggestions.
I hope you see the point. Finally, a smaller point, I haven't seen one JW say something like, "please don't judge all atheists by the ones you have encountered," when the Watchtower called all atheists militant, or 'mentally diseased'. There is a disconnect here.
Teeny
@LaDovia,
Thanks for the comment.
Is it "stereotyping" when all Jehovah's Witnesses are meant to allow their child to die instead of providing a simple blood transfusion that can save its life? Is it "stereotyping" to say that Jehovah's Witnesses are to shun their children, siblings, parents and friends if these ones have a different views to them, e.g. disfellowshipped?
Is there a difference between judging someone based on their race and someone who is in a cult? I'll let you answer that.
Regards,
Jaymes Payten
Daniel7
NWT
1 Timothy 6:4 he is puffed up [with pride], not understanding anything, but being mentally diseased over questionings and debates about words. From these things spring envy, strife, abusive speeches, wicked suspicions,
-- Revised Standard
1 Timothy 6:4 he is puffed up with conceit, he knows nothing; he has a morbid craving for controversy and for disputes about words, which produce envy, dissension, slander, base suspicions,
-- International English
1 Timothy 6:4 he is boastful. He doesn't understand anything; he is sick. He likes arguments and fights about words. Jealousy, fighting, words against God, and evil thoughts occur.
-- Living Bible
1 Timothy 6:4 Anyone who says anything different is both proud and stupid. He is quibbling over the meaning of Christ's words and stirring up arguments ending in jealousy and anger, which only lead to name-calling, accusations, and evil suspicions.
-- Weymouth's New Testament
1 Timothy 6:4 he is puffed up with pride and has no true knowledge, but is crazy over discussions and controversies about words which give rise to envy, quarrelling, revilings, ill-natured suspicions,
Andrew
@Daniel7: *yawn* another scripture quoting. Seen it, heard it, bought the T-Shirt. Means nothing to me unless you can prove it is from god. But even if it were, this scripture just basically proves the point that religious people have already chosen what is true and will believe it even if the evidence indicates otherwise.
Dale
Its not so much the average Jw that i dont like. Its the WBTS and the di**heads in Brooklin i loath.
Dizzy
I'm hoping you do bump into another witness now just so we can hear the article "Embarrassing the holy spirit out of a Witness"
Terti
JWs make me sick, too. They're so good at making other people feel bad instead of good and they are all living in a fairytale land where nothing is real...people who are bad are innocent as a toddler!
Jacqui Yapp
I am proud of you Andrew. I was also raised in the *cult* and it resulted in me to now suffer now with G.A.D which is a mental health anxiety condition, and was caused in my case, by severe fear and trauma during childhood, so well done to the cult for not only being responsible for many deaths over the blood issue, but also responsible for many people, whose mental health has been severely affected. How can that be even classed as LOVE, from a parent, to abuse especially a childs mental health and control them like robots. It's not love it's power and control. Then after we dare to fight back by asking questions, or wanting proof and have answers we discover along the way that dare to question their beliefs, we get spat out and ignored like trash, disgusting behaviour by devout god loving people, I am no longer a victim, I am free. They are not love thy neighbour people, they are love their own kind only people.
Andrew
@Jacqui - Thanks for your comment. I am so sorry for the problems the JWs gave you and your family. That's exactly why we run this site - to raise awareness of how destructive and dangerous the cult is. We've certainly been able to help a fair few people either stop studying with them, or leave them.
@Terti - You are right - Jehovah's Witnesses are experts at making people feel bad. There is a lot of anecdotal evidence (I haven't researched this in depth, yet) to suggest that there is a high percentage of Jehovah's Witnesses who are depressed or on anti-depressants and that the suicide rate is extremely high - one of the highest of any religious group. Like I said, don't take my word for it as I need to check the evidence, but I wouldn't be surprised. All the meetings are on about how 'you're worthless and not doing enough for the organisation'. Thanks for commenting!
@Dizzy - When it happens, I'll be sure to let the JWB followers know!
Teeny
Great article Andrew.
I've also asked to be disassociated. Ive so far sent text messages, emails, Skype IM's and written on JWB about my predicament, yet they allow me to continue on as a Jehovah's Witness.
The chief honcho, John Taliadoros, replied to my text today and told me to write him a letter and sign it if I want to be classed as disassociated. Or, he said, I could seek "spiritual assistance." I didn't know there was a spiritual assistance helpline. We must get one setup on JWB mate!
Regards,
Teeny Pyjamas
P.S. I'm sending this from my phone, therefore if there are typos, you'll understand why...
Andrew
Glad you liked it, mate. Good luck breaking free from the cult.










Sorry, the browser you are using is not currently supported. Disqus actively supports the following browsers:
FirefoxChromeInternet Explorer 8+Safari
This page is forcing your browser to use legacy mode, which is not compatible with Disqus. Please see our troubleshooting guide to get more information about this error.
We were unable to load Disqus. If you are a moderator please see our troubleshooting guide.
noble madzudzo
There are some things in them hard to understand,which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other scriptures. You therefore,beloved,knowing this beforehand,beware lest you be carried away with the error of lawless men and lose your stability.But grow in the grace and knowledge of our lord and saviour Jesus Christ. To him be the glory both now and to the day of eternity. Amen. 2 PETER 3 16-18
Andrew
@noble: Quoting scriptures does nothing for me unless it can be proved that a god inspired it. It means no more to me than if you'd quoted Captain James T Kirk.
Lenny Nimoy
Captain. James. T. Kirk. is. a. great. man. and. shouldn't. be. mocked. on. that. series. Family Guy.
Dale
They say that because they are brainwashed.






























Sorry, the browser you are using is not currently supported. Disqus actively supports the following browsers:
FirefoxChromeInternet Explorer 8+Safari
This page is forcing your browser to use legacy mode, which is not compatible with Disqus. Please see our troubleshooting guide to get more information about this error.
We were unable to load Disqus. If you are a moderator please see our troubleshooting guide.
smmcroberts
Yes, the Society has replaced Jehovah, as this simple quiz will reveal to you beyond doubt: http://smmcroberts.net/blog/qu...
Enlightened
Well, I too used to be a "good" witness. Unfortunately, I must have Satan living in me because my "mind's eye" has been opended. Everything the brotherhood does isn't for the welfare of the brethren but rather for ultimate control of these people's lives. I guess the only thing I will be forever grateful to the Brotherhood, or Jehovah's Witness so as not leave you speculating who I could be refering to, is that I now abhor religion. All of them! I'm sure there's some sort of creator, divine entity, etc., but as for religion, they have turned God into a tool to torture, control, rob, and brainwash people. All religions are wrong where humans have the lead.
My question to all of you, "Why do you feel the need to worship anything?" And please none of your JW brainwashed bullshiite.
Andrew
Well, why do you believe in god? Do you think that's a good reason?
joel
there is nothing like jehovah organization we only av one church and christ as d head to all who belief in d death and ressurection of d lord Jesus and dat has accepted him as thr saviour and lord.. av u forgoten jesus told d pharisee and saducee dat i and my father are one? Jesus is God whether u likes it or not it cant change d truth.
Andrew
The more 'faithful' they come, the worse their grammar and spelling usually are...
Yes Joel, bla bla, we already know what Jehovah's Witnesses believe, the poor reasons why, and that none of it makes sense.
EveH
Why are you saying this? Joel wasn't defending the witnesses and he's probably not a native speaker (neither am I for that matter....)
johnny
you do not mess with the watchtower organisation. whatever they say goes, if they say jump you say how high,if they say the world will end on a certain date you say yes if nothing happened you just go along with the flow because the light gets brighter anyway if they say that jerusalem was destryed in 607bce just ignore the evidence and say yes if they say jesus was nailed on a stake just ignore the evidence and say yes if they say they only joined the united nations because they need a pass just believe them and say yes if they say they dont have problems with paedophiles just turn a blind eye and say yes whatever they say just say yes if they say they have the truth just say yes if they say the sky is green and not blue just say yes because the truth belongs to them . yes????
noble madzudzo
is correct and respectful in any culture to call your father by his name?i know my fathers name but i can never out of respect call him by his actual name.is it proper,is it not disrespectful to be constanly uttering a holy name and degrading it?
Andrew
@noble - You have a point that if a god existed, it could be considered rude in most cultures to call it by a name, rather than a title. Jehovah's Witnesses say that to build a relationship with someone, you'd need to use their name, and that god said in the bible that he wants his name proclaimed, so that line of thinking is unlikely to phase any of them. Thanks for commenting!
Dizzy
@ nonsence: You just said yourself, that it says things against the organization. Now think to yourself about your previous comment about us all being apostate and directly saying things against God and review it. It is NOT against God, but against the Watchtower organization. That is a VERY big difference. But again, you say that saying things against the organization makes us Apostate.
So you are linking: "say something against the watchtower, you say something against God"
Second People in cults don't realise they are in cults. Thats the problem. You think people that joined many cults and sold everything, took thier lives, etc, would have done if they KNEW it was just a cult?
We welcome your "proof" and it will make an interesting read.
And you do realise Dizzy is a name... for example.. dizzy dean, famous american baseball pitcher.
Nonsense
Mr. Andrew, please give me some time and I will prove at least half your articles are boogies.
Andrew
@Nonsense, please be my guest. The JWB promise applies - if you can prove we have lied about anything, we'll retract it with a public apology. I think you'll see that we have some very valid points. If you want a friendly, respectful (I promise, but expect the same in return) discussion or debate about this, please email me on andrew@jehovahswitnessblog.com. We are not all evil sons of Satan.
Thanks,
Andrew
Nonsense
Mr. Dizzy. I have read many of the articles on here and although some of them are humerous, they are not true. This website "paints" the picture of the Organization being some kind of comic related religion. For instance, there are many articles that talk about the Watchtower being a cult. I have been a Jehovah's Witness since 1996, coming from a Baptist background. I can categorically tell you that the Jehovah's Witnesses are not a cult and not even close. To even liken this faith to a cult shows you for what you are, Apostates. As I said, I was not a "born-in" witness, but got baptised when I was 22 years old and since that time I have met my wonderful wife and we now have 4 children. Don't you think I would have realised if I were in a cult??
Catherine - When you have the power of an extremely supernatural being clouding your judgement, then yes, it is possible for all ex-Jehovah's Witnesses to be wrong all at the same time. All ex-JWs might not be in communication with each other, but you can bet your life that Satan and his demons are talking to each other each and every second. You may want to rethink your point..
Dizzy - I am on websites like this because my daughter told me about it and I find it interesting having debates with people that used to be Jehovah's Witnesses and now aren't. In fact, I find it hillarious that you can be without Jehovah's organization for so long? When you talk about facts, I can tell you that I have seen the will of God in my life. I have witnessed his unconditional love in my life. So go ahead with your science nonsense. As I said to Catherine, Satan works in amazing ways. I have seen all the evidence, I really have. But I have also attempted suicide and been brought back by Jehovah's will. So yes, I have a faith, but its backed up by more than blindness. Its backed up by things I have witnessed myself.
Zachary Loucas - London
PS I'm not scared to say my real name, unlike you Dizzy.
Dizzy
@ nonsence: On another point. Doesn't your organization tell you not to go on "apostate" websites? If you believe this is all apostate, why do you keep returning, going AGAINST what your organization has said?
Sunny Martin
Oh dear....maybe they will get found out when the other JWs turn up who shouldn't be on here either :)
Andrew
Funny that. Not a single Jehovah's Witness ever even tries to refute any point we make. They just attack us personally, as if that will discredit what we say. That is the sign that they have no answers.
Dizzy
@ nonsence: well obviously by that comment, you DO care.
And have you read the articles, or do you just blindly assume that as it paints your "holy" organization in a bad light, it MUST be apostate. Again, throwing that word around because the watchtower organization tell you to. Nothing said had been degrading to Jehovah. It simply puts FACTS that, if you can PROVE are wrong, will be removed with a public apology. Funny how people just shout abuse instead of submitting PROOF that things said here are wrong. Just because the organization SAYS it is the right one, the true religion, does not make it a FACT. And if you were truely dedicated to GOD and not the watchtower organization, then you'd be open to actually questioning the organization yourself to see fully if it is the right religion. There is nothing wrong in doing that. How can one be truely sure a religion is a TRUE religion if they have to follow every word blindly and not be able to actually use thier minds and freely question things?
Catherine
The rant in this comment above just proves the point of your article. Millions of ex JWs cannot ALL be wrong about the WTBTS. Its statistically impossible nor are they ALL in communication with one another to 'persecute' current JWs.
Nonsense
What a load of rubbish! I am a Jehovah's Witness and call you out as an apostate because you degrade Jehovah by talking about his organization is such an evil manor. It has nothing to do with you lying about Jehovah. You are an apostate because you have gone against his will. You say you were a Jehovah's Witness, so I don't need to remind you what his will on earth is, do I?? If you want my advice, quite while you think you are ahead and stop with all this nonsense. You are an apostate because just like your farther, all you can do is lie about Jehovah and his organization. So go on then, continue and see if I care..
Maria D.
Dear Nonsense,
Clearly you have been educated by Jehovah's Witnesses and not an ACTUAL institution of learning of any kind, considering your lack of grammar skills.
YOU SAID: "talking about his organization is such an evil manor"
CORRECT WAY: "talking about his organization IN such an evil MANNER."
YOU SAID: "If you want my advice, quite while you think you are ahead"
CORRECT WAY: "If you want my advice, [no one asked for that, by the way] QUIT while you think you are ahead...
YOU SAID: "because just like your farther,"
CORRECT WAY: "because just like your FATHER..."
And that's just the grammatical errors in your nonsensical comment. The fact that you spent all that time writing an entire paragraph that literally had NO FACTUAL POINTS whatsoever just proves you live very much up to your name: Nonsense.



































Sorry, the browser you are using is not currently supported. Disqus actively supports the following browsers:
FirefoxChromeInternet Explorer 8+Safari
This page is forcing your browser to use legacy mode, which is not compatible with Disqus. Please see our troubleshooting guide to get more information about this error.
We were unable to load Disqus. If you are a moderator please see our troubleshooting guide.
Verlyn
JWs BE WARNED and know that JESUS IS GOD!2 Peter 1: But there were also false prophets among the popele, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who BOUGHT (i.e. Christ) them - bringing swift destruction on themselves.










Sorry, the browser you are using is not currently supported. Disqus actively supports the following browsers:
FirefoxChromeInternet Explorer 8+Safari
This page is forcing your browser to use legacy mode, which is not compatible with Disqus. Please see our troubleshooting guide to get more information about this error.
We were unable to load Disqus. If you are a moderator please see our troubleshooting guide.
kimbal
Another point related to Prophesy was Russell's Pyramid books - "Great Pyramid Passages" and other similar titles, many also written by - John & Morton Edgar - who were pyramid researchers and Bible students in Russell's day; but in particular "The Time is at Hand " - Volume 2 of the "Studies in the Scriptures" series.
When certain prophecies failed to come as expected, someone amongst ( probably Russell or the Edgar boys ) adjusted the physical measurements of the great pyramid.
Find two different editions of the volume-2 studies book ( one published just before 1914 and one after 1914 ) "The time is at hand" from the studies in the scriptures ( or the "Millennial Dawn" series ) and look at the pyramid measurements that have been altered.
Someone in Brooklyn Bethel was using a rubber-ruler. I was always taught "Jehovah is unchangeable and does not lie" - yet his slave who represents him as his Inspired MOUTHPIECE obviously cannot use a ruler to make basic Pyramid Measurements. as a result the dating system changed to fit in with the predictions and the ruler measurements. It's no wonder most people just close the book and say "Its all too hard ".
The pyramid was deemed by the Society to be "God's Witness in STONE" for over 40 years.
When such dating anomalies were discovered by opposer's - Jehovah decided to take the easy road out of the dilemma and scrap the whole idea of pyramids - and disbanded the whole argument - which in a court of law is "admitting liability" that you are at fault. The said "Stone Witness" was all of a sudden "demonic" and Satan's Idea.
So Rutherford virtually accused his teacher RUSSELL of being a demoniac after his death - the very man who was the SOLE "Faithful and discreet slave" for more than 40 years. Normally that would make Rutherford an APOSTATE - because he denied the FDSC and spoke against it ( sorry I mean't to say C.T.Russell ). That would make this one of the EVIL SLAVE CLASS.
That's the conclusion the Berean Bible Students came too around 1917 -1919 and why many in the early years SPLIT off and only followed Russell. Another splinter group cult had formed.
But good old Brother Rutherford was no oppostate, he just started to re-predict new dates like 1925, 1941 and so forth and scrap everything from the previous 40+ years .
"The light was getting brighter and brighter until the perfect day" when they all were becoming so blind with its new-found brightness, they failed to see Armageddon coming at a set date, stopped predicting dates after 1975 and now it just comes "SOON" because we don't serve Jehovah to a date "we serve him to ALL ETERNITY." BUT never forget - Armageddon is closer than you think - its just around the corner and so you have to always serve God as if it's your last day on earth ! WOW what faithfulness !
So for 40+ years, God's witness in stone - the great pyramid - was hard evidence Jehovah had a divine plane - and when the plan was found to be flawed, all of a sudden became classed a demonic and Satan's idea.
Sounds to me like the faithful slave is bipolar, or unable to run the show.
It's no wonder 33% or third of the stars of heaven called angels, walked out in disgust and went with Satan - at least they knew what his plan was.
We all know "one is faithful in small things then he is faithful in what is much" - that was the words of GOD'S SON - not my words. So if Jehovah can't get simple pyramid dimensions correct, it's clear cut evidence he can't run the universe, which is why the angels said to Jehovah to "stick his divine messianic kingdom up his proverbial butt !"
It all makes sense now.
If the above is characteristic of the history of the Watchtower Society and the blame game still goes on today, that only indicates they can't be God's true people nor have his spirit.
"The lies are the truth and the truth are lies." - It's one big MIND FCUK !
Jason
yea in their prediction of the 1914 coming of the Lord, after they had ''predicted'' the coming and after they realized that it did not come to pass they quietly changed it in their organization and said that it was his ''invisible'' coming! how absurd does that sound? so what happened to the see-able coming in 1925 and 1975? also Jw dont even believe in prophesy in the first place, they believe that after Jesus prophesy was done with! How rediculous is that to not believe in prophesy but to prophesy! That is how you know they are a false religion, there are other stuff i would like to add, millions of other things but we r specifically talking about their false prophesies that never came to pass! this is a cult and very false teaching that should not be trusted! Jesus is the way and is God.
kimbal
And with those dates you listed you forgot to add 1942 - with the release of the "Children" and "Theocracy" books. Many Witnesses gave up buying homes and having children at that time because Armageddon was coming - very much like what was repeated in 1975.
Personally - I think the 1942 date was the Societies over reaction to the Japs bombing Pearl Harbour in Dec 1941 and as a result the USA went into war.
kimbal
Oh I forgot to mention the Orange/Pink A4 sized "Paradise Lost To Paradise Regained" book we studied as kids in the 1950's & 60's - stated about how we knew we were in the time of the the last days.
The reasoning used was - 1914 was correct because the bible chronology on 607BCE was accurate in its prediction of that date; and so this meant we are in the last days. Also it was taught only the earthly organization Jehovah's Wife was guiding and directing her people with the truth.
Then the large yellow book from 1973 known as "God's kingdom of a 1000 year reign" - spoke of Christ ( Jehovah's Son ) appointing his holy spirit on the ( wife & mother )"faithful & discreet slave" in 1919 as EVIDENCE they were God's chosen prophet.
The 1919 date was derived from the 1914 date, which came from the 607 date.
So the 607 chronology is the hard core evidence used for proving the holy spirit is behind the Watchtower's divine authority and ordination.
Well since the 607 date is flawed and full of errors it certainly explains the domino's effect of dating errors for the F&D.S.C and the blatant lies of the ruling elite in the congregation ( sorry - I meant to say human imperfections of the elders ) since they are also ordained servants of Jehovah.
( They certainly have more holy spirit than the rank and file publishers - so I've been told by a number of elders over the years. )
If the 607 date is wrong - so is their ordination and the claim to being God's true mouthpiece. This would explain the lies and bull Ive heard and read all to often as well and the crimes of child molestation and other carnal sins.
1975 was hard evidence of that; since it was propped up on the 607 date as well, including the changing view of the 1914 generation and the more recent introduction of the Nethinim class since the 1990's.
It seems to me, Jehovah's mighty earthly organization needs to get rid of the rafter out of his own eye, before telling opposer's about the splinter in their eye.
kimbal
What about the example used in the 1980's Watchtower study article, about the organization being like a yacht tacking in the wind; following a set course, but moving left and right to counteract the currents and keep its course in the same general direction.
Ray Franze referred to it in his "Crisis of Conscience" book as far as I recall. So too the changes in doctrinal beliefs, are basically always going in the same direction ( on & off like a light switch in my opinion ) but need to be tacked, or adjusted to suit the track of the organization; which like the switching light gives you a headache and short term blindness ( as your eyes loose their focus of what's really in the room ).
So too using J.W reasoning, "the light gets brighter and brighter until the perfect day".
But honestly - if the light is too bright - it causes literal blindness just like looking into the Sun - and in that case, I'd much rather prefer the darkness of the devil; as there is less pain on the retina and no headache.
With the right technology and understanding - it's now very possible now to see in the dark.
It's called NIGHT VISION something the Watchtower cannot see, since they are so blinded by their own illumination. There is also RADAR which aircraft use at night. So the biblical reasoning that "the light sees all things" is quite flawed.
Maybe, Just maybe - Satan new something when he was ousted from heaven - something god did not want the angels to know.
Lacy
OOh! How about "Jehovah was using the situation as a 'weeding out' process. He needed to separate those who were serving him for the wrong reasons from those who are truly faithful".
Because when someone lies to you repeatedly and makes promises of things that never happen and you keep believing them anyway and sticking by them, that is love and faithfulness. Walking away from someone who keeps taunting you, uses fear and false promises to control you, repeatedly tells you he is going to give wonderful things to you to show his own love for you but then sometimes says it is not really his way of showing his love for you but rather a reward for you proving your love for him, and who watches bad things happen to you constantly and even though he has the power to stop it tells you to suck it up and endure it and perhaps someday he might find you worthy enough to do nice things for you (but doubtful since he does have such high standards and one wrong act on your part is really enough to give him a good reason to kill you), well walking away from someone like that just goes to show how unworthy and wrong you are! We should always remain friends with people like that. Walking away would just be absurd. Tsk, tsk.









Sorry, the browser you are using is not currently supported. Disqus actively supports the following browsers:
FirefoxChromeInternet Explorer 8+Safari
This page is forcing your browser to use legacy mode, which is not compatible with Disqus. Please see our troubleshooting guide to get more information about this error.
We were unable to load Disqus. If you are a moderator please see our troubleshooting guide.
Isaac J. Harris
I have been saying this for a while. It really stuck in my mind when they started calling apostates "mentally diseased." The WTS leadership lives in a very tiny bubble of isolation. How can they not realize how creepy cult-like this is?
Worse, many older Witnesses live in the same bubble because they push all non-Witnesses far, far away. So none of them get it. I've had comments left at my site from Witnesses who don't see what the big deal is. And they don't even live in a castle in NY! They live in the real world. They just refuse to see it.
This video, the mentally diseased article, and all of that shows their lack of judgment and their loss of connection to the real world. Everything at WT central goes through a committee and must be approved. Yet no one said, "Hey, this is kinda messed up. We can't run this! Pay attention guys, you're gonna make us look stupid!" Or if someone did, they were overruled. Meanwhile, the Society spent valuable resources to produce this thing and most of them thought it was A-OK.
How deluded is that?
Adam
Yay for you! A guy who knows nothing about the Bible but is smart enuogh NOT to make the Book of Revelation plural. THANK YOU THANK YOU. You are a theology scholar in the making, as most of them still add an "s" to the book.Anyway, the J-dubs are rotting in Hell as I write this. Lost forever, burning, screaming, moths and worms eating their melting bodies....for all eternity! And no sex, no Pop-Tarts, no episodes of the Office, no Life Cereal....just pain. And Nancy Grace.And next time you drive past a J-dub worship center, note the architectural tendency to never include windows in their buildings. Suspect.
Andrew
Adam, you really are a disgusting and vile little man, aren't you. You actually relish the idea of people burning, screaming, melting in agony... FOR SHAME!
See how religion can make good people do and think evil things? The bible isn't a moral guideline at all. Revelation or Revelations... as if grammar was the issue here rather than your complete lack of morals.
Steve
This is too rich, I simply had to write my own blog for this one:
http://smmcroberts.net/blog/?p...
Thanks, Teeny, for bringing this to my attention.
SpreadSheetNinja
I want that toy :D does anyone have a idea where i can get my hands on one :D
Im desperately willingly to pay 250$ for one! i hate that church and that they made my life a liveing hell!
ill bookmark this page.
H0meb0y
Shhhh....Sparlock action figure coming soon. WIP, wink!
Teeny
For $250 I'll open up a Taiwanese sweatshop and get my new band of 11 year old workers to make you one.
DeRanged Jdub
@Isaac... VERY... but the rank and file will never really have a clue about this. It will be mitigated to a sudden random change in policy, and it is all part of the progressive chariot. You don't want to fall off the Chariot.. right?? so shutty da nutty and keep knocking!
DeRanged Jdub
I saw this a few days ago. It is causing quite a sensation on some of the other forums. To me??? it is.... THE MOST EMBARRASSING THING I HAVE SEEN IN A LONG TIME!!! I'm a huge research nut- so if you want to draw a hard line on the spiritism bit..you should just kill yourself now. Everything has some tie to / can be linked to a former pagan rite, superstition, "false" religion. You better not take any herbs, because they were developed through spiritistic religious beliefs. IN FACT you better get rid of your clock to, because calculating time is directly linked to watching the stars - horoscopes- Aztecs - Mother earth worship/ 30 day cycles... (sarcasm duly noted)











Sorry, the browser you are using is not currently supported. Disqus actively supports the following browsers:
FirefoxChromeInternet Explorer 8+Safari
This page is forcing your browser to use legacy mode, which is not compatible with Disqus. Please see our troubleshooting guide to get more information about this error.
We were unable to load Disqus. If you are a moderator please see our troubleshooting guide.
Dizzy
I Heard my buzzer go off Yesterday...
So I answered thinking it would be post...
And it was a Witness, he said "Do you want the latest Watchtower and Awake?"
Now that was the MOST convincing, amazing preaching there.
Nothing about it, nothing to do with God. Just do I want the magazine?
Such enthusiam for something they have no trouble calling you "apostate" if you tell them you don't believe.
But, I found it more funny at how the witness looked anything but "Positive" when he was trying to give away his magazine, and try his best not to preach.










Sorry, the browser you are using is not currently supported. Disqus actively supports the following browsers:
FirefoxChromeInternet Explorer 8+Safari
This page is forcing your browser to use legacy mode, which is not compatible with Disqus. Please see our troubleshooting guide to get more information about this error.
We were unable to load Disqus. If you are a moderator please see our troubleshooting guide.
Dizzy
Well it is called the Awake! , and thats just what people are doing. Waking up to the lies that this CULT spread. So seeing as more and more notice it, what choice to they have but to reduce the amount of lie's they can tell at one point.
Kurt Prochnow
For a long time they have been just phoning it in, with very little substance published. I can see the Awake of 2034 being printed on an index card.











Sorry, the browser you are using is not currently supported. Disqus actively supports the following browsers:
FirefoxChromeInternet Explorer 8+Safari
This page is forcing your browser to use legacy mode, which is not compatible with Disqus. Please see our troubleshooting guide to get more information about this error.
We were unable to load Disqus. If you are a moderator please see our troubleshooting guide.
GiveUs Grace http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...
"As difficult as it was to pinpoint the gene for Huntington’s, it will be almost infinitely harder to discover genes for behavioral disorders, says Evan S. Balaban, a biologist at Harvard University. Unlike Huntington’s disease, he notes, disorders such as schizophrenia and alcoholism cannot be unambiguously diagnosed. Furthermore, they stem not from a single dominant gene but from many genes acting in concert with environmental effects. If researchers do find a statistical association between certain genes and a trait, Balaban says, that knowledge may never be translated into useful therapies or tests. “What does it mean to have a 10 percent increased risk of alcoholism?” he asks.
This statement is simple minded and mis-leading. How does he (Balaban) know disorders such as schizophrenia and alcoholism do not stem from a single dominant gene? Where is his research to make such a statement?
Huntington's Disease was mis-diagnosed throughout history as those same diseases (among others) in the past. Now -with research- it is understood to be traced to a certain gene. And with that a cure will be found. Who is to say until scientist do the research and find the cause or causes? So until then we are supposed to sit in arrogant judgment and condemn others or ourselves?
This is the same gobbley-gook that had caused so much prejudice about Aids. It is just a disease and not a sin.
And what about compassion for human suffering?
Whew--got that off my chest. Thanks.
GiveUs Grace
Wow. I was just researching what the JW's had to say about Huntington's Disease (if anything) and came across this site as well as others referring to this article. I was surprised to see the disease referenced in their literature at all.
My mom was at risk for this disease as many members of the family had died from it which and she suffered as a child with a mother that had this disease. (Siblings, nephews, nieces, etc) She also became a JW later as an adult.
This article explains to me her difficulty in forgiving the (mom's) behavior problems that come from having such a brain wasting disease. So sad a religion would put out articles like this. If your brain is dying (brain wasting disease) then it is obvious that people have all sorts of behaviors isn't it? I really don't think victims of this disease can be held accountable.
The "knowledge" of the gene that causes Huntington's Disease is leading to research that has stopped the progression in animal studies and much hope for a cure. Now that is what those wonderful scientists can do--one of which is Nancy Wexler whose own mother died of this disease. So sorry my own Mom ever had to read such literature!
DeRanged Jdub
A point to make- we/they are told to not follow "worldly philosophies", when it's just another way to control the sheep. It's all spin!!
Dillen
There is nothing wrong with scientist because they're all human like us! They don't mention anything else about homosexuality and I've nothing against people who are gay because I'm friends with a few. WTS does make me sick and I can't wait to see them go down like their own Armageddon war! We worldly people are gonna be laughing in their faces!









Sorry, the browser you are using is not currently supported. Disqus actively supports the following browsers:
FirefoxChromeInternet Explorer 8+Safari
This page is forcing your browser to use legacy mode, which is not compatible with Disqus. Please see our troubleshooting guide to get more information about this error.
We were unable to load Disqus. If you are a moderator please see our troubleshooting guide.
Wesley Shipp
Andrew; Hitler was a Catholic, and not only that still is in good standing in the Catholic Church, as the Vatican has refused to ex-communicate him. As far as the others they taught and forced ahteism in the schools of Russia. As far as Miguel, why would you want to kill a zeal for God one has, even if it is misguided? Not the way Jesus would act for sure, keep preaching Miguel, just learn and try to humble yourself and jehovah will teach you, if you listen, re-read the Samaritan Woman at the well with Jesus and you will get the jest of what I am saying.,
Andrew
"Hitler was a Catholic" - that's what I said, which was to show that your comment about Hitler opposing preaching and 'look what happened to him' was false.
"As far as the others they taught and forced ahteism in the schools of Russia" - Whether his is true or not, that still doesn't back up your point. Let me explain. Have you ever done anything because you don't believe in Unicorns? What about your lack of belief in fairies? No - no one has ever been motivated to an act because of what they don't believe in. A lack of belief in god wasn't a motivator for the evils that have occurred in history by Stalin and Hitler any more than your disbelief in pixies motivates you to do anything. People who leave their religious beliefs behind and become atheists don't just get up and start killing people.
Also, you have ignored what I said. I very clearly said that "I didn't tell you not to preach". I have said, and I'll say it again in hopes you'll actually pay attention this time and you aren't just a troll, that you shouldn't FORCE your beliefs on people, nor should you preach to people who don't want to hear it. You wouldn't like me preaching atheism to you all the time and would probably cry out persecution, and I don't do that, yet people like you and Miguel seem to think it's completely acceptable on the other side of the coin to come along, quote scriptures as if they have some special meaning, and tell everyone what you believe (and how they should believe). It's quite simply rude. Preach all you like, but only to those who actually want to hear it. I think that's the polite way of doing it. If you still don't understand my point, or try twisting what I said again (or ignoring bits) then I am not interested in further discussion. Again, I think that's more than fair.
WriteandEarnaLiving
No, their flawed teachings have brought liability on the group, because they did not report child molestation to the authorities and chose to handle it internally--and by doing so, shielded a child molester. Notice how they make him a scapegoat: "a member of a religious group has brought liability on the group for actions he alone may have taken. His actions were hidden instead of exposed and dealt with via the proper channels because of their flawed policies, which provide a haven for child molesters. Elders don't even warn parents when a known molester is in the congregation. They rigidly adhere to the "letter of the law" with their "two witness" rule (right, like a molester is going to prey on a child in front of two witnesses) while casting mercy aside--just like the Pharisees they are so quick to condemn.
disfellowshipped believer 2004
It does not matter what you say with words against the Watchtower org they will always have loopholes and there Iron Clad Defense Team of Lawyers will stone wall a victim in a heartbeat. With BILLIONS of dollars in revenue a year you better believe they are COVERING there backs. Best way to beat them is to email these people:
Barrack Obama
Secretary of State
Congressmen
Supreme Court Members
and tell them that the JEHOVAH'S WITNESS GROUP and WATCHTOWER NON-PROFIT ORGANIZATION is breaking the rules of a NON-PROFIT ORGANIZATION by not giving a PROPER RECEIPT of donation money(s) all the while promoting ANTI US GOVERNMENT ACTS TO ITS MEMBERS.
if a member of the non-profit organization takes on a military or government job he will be shunned and removed from the non-profit organization; if a member has a desire to vote for president of the united states he will be shunned and removed. there is NO ALLEGIANCE ALLOWED to the UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT and is not permitted in the NON-PROFIT ORGANIZATION OF JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES.
(they want to use the system of non-profit and not pay taxes all the while berate its members to not support the US GOVERNMENT or pay the cost of membership)
THEY ARE NOT A RELIGION they are a GROUP and are TAX EVADING ITS MEMBERS AND THE US LAWS OF NON PROFIT by not providing INDIVIDUAL RECEIPTS FOR EVERY DONATION. AND PROMOTING TREASON AGAINST THEIR COUNTRY AND LAND THEY PRESIDE BY USING QUID PRO QUO TACTICS!
DON'T BE A VICTIM SPEAK OUT AND BRING THESE MONSTERS TO JUSTICE. IM PROUD TO SAY I USE TO BE A JEHOVAH'S WITNESS AND NOW THAT I AM NOT I CAN VOTE FOR PRESIDENT AND LOVE THE COUNTRY THAT GAVE ME FREEDOM OF HAVING MY OWN MIND!!!!!!!!!!!
Angie
yes, members of my own family suffered sexual abuse as JW foster children - easy prey. I am disgusted bythe hypocrisy of the JW's and the unquestioned control the exercise over their membership worldwide. I thank God that I have always questioned them (they nearly, very nearly got me anyway, and this is no small feat). They should be exposed to all for who and what they are, which is a destructive cult whose leaders are as bad as any Jim Jones because the damage is severe, far-reacing, and long lived.
niki pacheco
Thanks to Candice Conti's courage I will be doing the same..watch out Watch Tower here I come. I went through the same thing when I was 9 years old. The elders told my mom not to bring reproach on Jehovah's name by going to the authorities. .so the abuse continued..I am sure Jehovah saw everything happen to me in that kingdom hall basement. .
NIKI PAGNOTTA
I am going to find you Frank with the Police help of course. :)))
Jennifer
My father was involved in one of these sex abuse scandals, he was the offender, and my male cousin was his victim. My cousin (also a Jehovah's Witness) came to visit my family from another state in the late 90s and was sexually abused by my father. He told his parents about it when he returned home. His parents took him to the elders and the elders said that clearly my cousin had made it up, and that if he pursued it he would be a lier and Jehovah hated liars. My aunt and uncle also told my grandfather, who was an elder, and he told them not to pursue it, that my cousin probably wanted attention. Years went by, my Aunt and Uncle didn't contact my family for years, and lost a lot of respect for the organization, but they never went to the authorities or told us about anything. My mother had no idea why her brother and his family distanced themselves. Then, years later, amid the beginning of the catholic and Jehovah's Witness sex scandals, my cousin came to visit us again, he was now 18. He told my mother, my sister and I about what had happened and said he was going to the elders. He did, again. Did the elders immediately go to the authorities? No. They wrote a letter to the organization asking what they should do about this. They told my mom they were awaiting a decision from the society. My dad (a Ministerial Servant) admitted to the elders that he had abused my cousin and then committed suicide before any direction was received from the society. My father received a lovely Jehovah's Witness Funeral and the suicide was kept secret, never spoken of again. And we, the family, received no counseling, nothing. It was as if nothing happened.
It should be clear to the elders what to do when the sexual abuse of a child is reported. Obviously, the society believes and acts as if they are above the authorities, that they in fact are the final authority, and it proves the kind of behind-the-scenes control The Society has that the average Jehovah's Witness is unaware of. It also shows that The Society is more concerned with their image than protecting victims. My mother, sister and I lived with my father for years, while others knew what he had done. Was no one concerned with our safety? What about my poor cousin, who had been called a lier?
Its all so sickening, and I am happy this forum provides a place for these stories to be heard. The Society goes to great lengths to keep the truth hidden from its members.
Nona
Nico,
That is what I'm beginning to see. The religion is flip-flopping between doctrinal issues and the child abuse issue is upsetting enough to make one re-examine all beliefs. My best friend (both of us raised "in the truth" and I have been discussing these issues for the past month. We both wish we could talk to our JW family members, but know their answer will be to "wait on Jehovah", or Satan is behind it, don't question anything. Personally, once one begins to apply logic, there isn't much that seems to make sense about the WT take on things.
Wesley Shipp
I guess it is shocking tp hear but even though we are Jehovahs people, like in the first century, there will be those with bad inclinations like Judas. Keep it in perspective, even though we live clean lives we are still imperfect and only Jehovah judges each and every individual. You will see bad things happen in the congregations, no where in the bible or in Jesus ministry are we told that Jehovahs organization will be exempt from Satan's missles! Try if you may to find a verse that states that and you'll only prove the oppisite, that because we serve Jehovah we are become more of a target to Satan. I live very near to where the sister was kidnapped and murdered, even knowing some who knew the sister personally, yet they continue to put it in Jehovahs hands because they know that it is only Jehovah who can fix the injustice we see in a violent world. Keep the faith and your eyes affixed to Jehovahs spiritual organization!
Nico
Yes we don't dare look to Jesus directly but keep our eyes affixed to an organization that replaces Jesus with as our mediator to Jah. One that rewrites the Bible. That time & again maintains rules protecting pedophiles world wide. What a wonderfully protective mother-like organization keeping us safe & close under wing? Oh I can see how that makes perfect sense again! Thank you so much blinding us with all this additional light Westley. lol
God Bless, Nico
Nona
Has anyone heard any truth about the link below? http://www.jwclassaction.com/
I've only started researching these items a month ago, after reading about the JW murder in Oregon, of the young lady, by another brother. A post there led me to the Candace Conti case, which has led me to all sorts of distubing information. I am going from shocked dimay to compete and utter disappointment in the religiion I was raised in and am currently teaching my child.
Nico
It's like they're cutting & pasting right out of a Watchtower CD or something... Look I was raised a JW & what the WT says is not what the Bible's saying!
What about righteous anger guys? In Blog form but still it's putting out there the corruption & dangers of this JW faith out into wide public open. If there's nothing wrong with that then none of you would be upset but there is a lot wrong & you know it or you wouldn't be on this site. Not that it was probably intended as a support group but for me this Blog's helped more than any one of you spouting 20 scriptures so fast no one could possibly reply. That doesn't mean you win the conversation because people are too exasperated and annoyed to reply to each one?? No it means you sound ridiculous.
For too long I bottled up & "forgot" that I was molested by 2 young men from the hall & nothing was done because my word meant nothing. My mother was told she was letting me watch too much tv. Do you know what a wreck I was years later when I could trust NO ONE to watch my own baby?
Just yesterday I did my best to hold back tears when I tell my children again that Papou Jim is with God. The reality is Elders & Overseers convinced him it was perfectly safe to have bloodless quadrupedal coronary bypass in 1985. That Jah would protect him & bless his faithfulness! Ha! I & my 3 brothers were left without a father & I was the youngest at only 5. Was seeing him in a Coma for a year & a half a the protection blessing or when he woke up quadriplegic & died 6 months later the blessing? Give me a scripture for that? There is none it was just stupid.
Do I hate any one particular person? No. Do I hate any of you? No. Do I hate my mother who's still a JW or the Pioneers she provided with endless services hours as they continuously Sheppard her back in under the guise of friendship? No. Do I hate how destructive that religious has been in my life & in the lives of those around me. YES!
Abuse, death, bullying those who don't want to go our in service, & always threatening to have everyone shun you now that they've got you separated from all your "Worldly Friends & Family." I mean it's just how destructive The Anti-truth really is your life that causes me to hate it. God hates Easau from the womb & I will hate that that religion until death. Spout all the scriptures you can think of but it changes nothing. The JW's are very dangerous cult, loosely based on scriptures at best, & this Blog is not only funny but timely, accurate, & fabulous!
If you don't like TRUTH then go back to putting your head in the sand of that miss-interpreted Bible of yours.
Nico
Wesley Shipp
Miguel; Here is a simple definition of Grace given in Wiki; "In the New Testament, the word translated as grace is the Greek word charis (Greek χάρις), pronounced khar'-ece, for which Strong's Concordance gives this definition; "Grace, the state of kindness and favor towards someone, often with a focus on a benefit given to the object." [4][5] A Greek word that is related to charis is charisma (gracious gift). Both these words originated from another Greek word chairo (to rejoice, be glad, delighted).[6] In the Old Testament, the Hebrew term used is chen [7][8] (חֵן), which is defined in Strong's as "favor, grace or charm; grace is the moral quality of kindness, displaying a favorable disposition".[9] In the King James translation, Chen is translated as "grace" 38 times, "favour" 26 times, twice as "gracious",[10] once as "pleasant",[11] and once as "precious".[12], so give wiki the credit for this definition.
many of the terms you use are just titles, like "Lord and God" Basic elementary teachings of Christianity. The point that I was making or the theme of the discussion is based on judgment. Judging others! Are we qualified to judge? Jesus stated that he would judge us the way we judge others, are you prepered for that? Because your judging those Elders unfairly. The court case was about making the Governing Body of Jehovahs Witnesses change their policy of not telling when there was a child molester in the Congregation. Jehovahs Witnesses lost that case, showing that not telling the proper authorities may cost them. Thats fine with me, and I can tell you many of the Elders do tell the parents in the congregation when there is a danger like that, I know as I was a parent and experienced that kind of concern. But, to judge the Elders puts you against God himself and violates the very command from his Son Jesus not to judge others, doesn't matter how much "Grace" you have, not one of us is qualified to judge anyone! To judge others is a tactic used by Satan to cause a division among Gods true people, you should know that, another elementary teaching of Christianity. Now as for Anderws comment, Andrew you need to read what Jesus commanded all of us to do in Mathew 28:19&20, this is a direct command from the Masiah! Are you trying to tell me not to preach God's Kingdom message, Hitler tried that and look where he is! Stalin sent Jehovahs Witnesses to Siberia trying to stop that message and all he endened up doing was spreading that Kingdom Message all across Russia! Now there are millions of Jehovahs Witnesses on the Earth and they will die before they will stop preching, and they have. So my short answer to you Andrew is No, I will not stop preaching!
Andrew
Well actually, Hitler was probably a Catholic. At the very least, we can say that he wasn't motivated to do what he did because he didn't like preaching. You're just being silly if you think Stalin and Hitler did what they did because they didn't like the ministry. Your argument is clearly flawed.
Secondly, I didn't tell you not to preach. In fact, my comment was to Miguel. Read my comment again. I indicated that people should only preach to people who want to hear it and shouldn't be putting it into people's faces. If you are going to preach, at least make sure people want to hear you, or present evidence above and beyond every other religion in the world to prove your religion is correct. And I highly doubt that if a Muslim started preaching to you that you'd want to listen to it, so don't be a hypocrite. Religious people like you come off as very arrogant, forcing your superstition on people like us. We know where your Kingdom Halls and churches are - if we want to be preached to, we know where to go.
Miguel Torres
Yes, we must love one another, for if we love not,we know not God, For God is love-1 John 4:8. He who loves God abides in. In order for us to understand the word of God, He must lead us and be in us. Though we follow seperate doctrines, we must love and believe in the truth that God sets before us. Let no man pervert the gospel, for He who adds or takes away from the gospel, yes, we must stand up for it but hate not nor bite or devour but edify and speak the truth in love, for God shall judge those who believe not -Galatians 1:8-9. Do we believe in the grace of God? that by grace we are saved and by grace through faith works are made manifest to those around us as our light shines upon those in darkness that will lead others to Christ the Son of God so that they also by grace be saved through the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ the Lord Ephesians 2:8-10, matthew 5:16? Even I know scriptures, but even so the devils believe there is a God- James 2:19. Where is my boast then? My boast is in the Lord, of what God has shown me through His Spirit, for with out the Spirit of God, my eyes are shut closed- John 14:15-18 & 16:13. Let us edify one another- 1 thessalonians 5:11. Let's reason in humility and pray that God may give us all the understanding. And remember this, "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in Him, shall not perish but have everlasting life, for God sent His Son into the world not to condemn the world but, that the world through Him might be saved" John 3:16-17. So if God condemed us not, we must not even condemn. But God condemned only this; our sin was condemned in the flesh of Jesus Christ so that we who believe in Him, have eternal life and our sins are washed away. So then Jesus died with our sin, He who knew no sin (2 Corinthians 5:21), rose from the grave and left sin dead in the grave, and ascended unto the Father (Acts 1:9 and chapter 2) so that through Jesus Christ we have peace and life. Here in is the gospel, the life saving message, that Jesus died for our sins and rose again the third day so that through Him, we must be saved through Him. For God loved us that much, and condemned us not, for if we believe not, we condemn ourselves for rejecting such grace and truth that comes from God through Jesus Christ- John 3:18. Let us love and speak truth and fellowship in SPirit, in the presence of God. Let our act of worshp be acceptable unto God as we present ourselves daily unto Him who created all things by His Word- Romans 12:1-3, John 1-5. Email me. i would love to share truth with whoever is willing. miguelng7@aol.com
Andrew
Why are you preaching? Did anyone ask for you to preach to them? No... so why can't you religious people keep it to yourselves? You all believe differently than each other, yet you all claim to have the right religion, all without any more evidence than the next religious person. Just.. sssh!
Jone Quest
Why did Jesus preach? Why did his disciples preach?
Wesley Shipp
Many tend to take a hard line against JW organization when they don't know their beliefs, call it fear of the unknown or just making a judgment without all the facts, the comments still reflect that which knowledge can cure. Even the case itself is only really known to those involved and especially the child molester knows what happened but will not tell. Only Jehovah knows every detail. Being that we are all imperfect and fall far short of perfection, we make stupid rules sometimes that if one were not moral could take advantage, and sadly there are many who do. Even our courts struggle with identifying a child molester and find it very hard to convict, yet you hear very little about the failure of our own courts to stop these preditors! Jesus spent his whole ministry on Earth with 12 desciples yet one of them turned out to be bad, Jesus was not swayed from his responsibility before his God, neither did he let it lesson his love for his heavenly Father. Unfortunately, we will always find those in the congregations who are Wolfes covered in Sheeps clothing waiting to prey on innocent ones. I have been one of Jehovahs people since 1973, I have seen many changes and I have seen many imposters as well, I have seen things that sometimes made me pray to Jehovah to stop it, yet Jehovah allowed it just like He allowed Judas to continue. Through it all I learned a valuable lesson, the one thing Jesus made a very big point of telling us all, "not to Judge others" because Jehovah knows all these things and will in His time fix it. Now its up to you, to listen to what Jehovah says.
Nico
Dear Westly, You are clearly quoting something right out of the Elders manual of excuses for why the end didn't come this time... or any other number of things the organization has changes since it started. The Bible doesn't have to make changes.
Jehovah is not allowing child molesters it in your congregations. He's just not with you! It's a cult. It draws away from the Word & the Bible & replaces with it with Watch Tower & it's Cronies. Therefore the answers to your prayers are missing. Period.
Praying for you that you find your way out & into Jesus open arms,
Nico
Wesley Shipp
Nico; Elders Manual? Sorry nico I do not serve as an Elder or a servant in the Congregation so no Elders manual just my experience of almost 40 years. As far as Jehovah not allowing child molesters in the congregations he does allow them to remain there, other religions, and on the earth unfortunately, the bible even says so at Mathew 5:45. Even Daniel who knew more about Jehovah than all of us did not know about many of the things he prophesied about, Daniel 12:8-10. Then the bible even states in Proverbs 4:18 that the "righteous path get brighter and brighter" many other scriptures also indicate that as we get deeper and deeper in the end the knowledge of Jehovah would encrease! Yes, there would be many changes as Jehovahs people would build their knowledge and many scriptures to support that. Jehovah even stated that people would hate you because of my name, why are you so full of hatred Nico? Why do you blame Jehovah? Why do you blame all the Elders? Cleary someone who has clear thinking would know that the majority of the Elders would be loving individuals and they are, why do you want to de-humanize them by grouping them all as just Elders? They are people, individuals, that give of their time in a loving manner even at times having to leave in the middle of the night and travel many miles to help others. Why would you want to hate people like that? To easy for me to disprove everything you said in your response, you clearly don't know your bible!
Andrew
Wesley, for me, I don't hate any individual JW. I hate what the JW religion makes people do. For a good person to do an evil thing - that takes religion. Why else would a loving elder not report child abuse, if not for the JW two witness rule? Why else would a parent let a child die instead of have a blood transfusion if not for the JW stance on blood? I hate the bad things that happen directly due to religion, Jehovah's Witness or otherwise. Hope that makes sense.
Andrew
"Many tend to take a hard line against JW organization when they don’t know their beliefs" really? I think our blog has repeatedly indicated that we know damned well what Jehovah's Witnesses believe. We even use references for you. I don't mind criticism and discussion about what we write, but at least bring along a valid point.
Asia Nealy
You can download the document here. http://www.sendspace.com/file/...
It shows where it says not to give out any info to the police etc
Krej
While I have no doubt there are a few horror stories out there with regard to child abuse (the Conti case seems to be one) I do find your blog incompatible with my own experiences. I was a born-in, I take issue with certain doctrines and disfellowshipping in particular. To pain a picture of all JWs kingdom halls being full of child abusers with elders trying to cover it all up is simply ridiculous and bordering on slander. in my prev congregation vac in the mid 80s the elders took swift action, the police were involved and the man disfellowshipped. Another man who lived over the road from the kingdom hall was a known abuser and the elders kept watch outside the hall. At conventions there are under cover teams specifically to look out for anyone who might infiltrate and target children. And as for the two witness rule - come on we all know the elders are not police men. there is nothing stop anyone informing the police themselves. Are JWs misguided? possibly. Do they teach the truth from the Bible? That's for anyone to make up their mind and do their research. Are there a few elders out there who wouldn't know what to do in a child abuse allegation case? Maybe there are some and most definitely there were in the past (as there were in other organisations) But to make out they are all an evil bunch and that no child is safe in a kingdom hall is just ridiculous alarmist nonsense. Don't grind your axe too much or there will be nothing left.
Andrew
Krej, thanks for the comment. I don't think we've ever said that all Kingdom halls are full of child abusers. The point is that any Kingdom Hall COULD have a child abuser, where the elders have heard accusations and should have reported it to the police but didn't. Even if there was only one child molester in the whole religion, the point is that Watchtower policy would protect that person over the protection of the child, allowing him to re-offend.
Loren.
Betty, regarding the comment you made about someone who has been abused outside of the arena of the jw's- I am also in that position and whilst studying myself it was exactly this that scared me and upset me so much. Once I found out about it I mean, this was 7 months into my study and this was pre Candace Conti.
I initially found out about the child abuse via you tube videos and the silentlambs website where I read the most disturbing stories. I also saw panorama and dateline exposes on child abuse within the Jehovah’s Witness. I was horrified and it was because I have been abused - I knew that in no way could associate myself with any group or organisation that protected child abusers with this 2 witness rule. It just smacks of danger. No abuser has an audience; this is very basic knowledge and common sense.
So although I also met some lovely people and I don’t doubt that they are lovely, as are the people you know, but as a group they subscribe to this view, this very dangerous and illogical view.
Well it cut a big line through any trust I had and any belief that goodness could truly be found at the kingdom hall and in the longed for paradise. It just turned it all on its head. Light turned to darkness as it were.
I can still see the children that were in the kingdom hall I attended and I worry for them. I could not sit there and be aware of the danger that they were in – so trustingly sitting there being taught that they were safe and that all the badness was outside in the world when in fact it may be sitting right beside you.
That illustration is rather like little red riding hood, where granny turns out to be a wolf, under her lace bonnet.
Take care Betty.
johnny
@betty try and say that to the thousands of young jw children abused by the people who are supposed to be role models in the congregation.
Betty
I can't agree on the cult idea. As someone studying to become a JW, I find them to be quite wonderful people. They're really understanding people as well. Things like this happen in the world. And sometimes people stray from their beliefs. This doesn't mean that it's a worldwide practice, or even a JW practice. They're lovingly people, but in every bunch, there's always a rotten apple. As a child, I was sexually abused, and my parents weren't relious. Things like this happen in every religion. Some is told some isn't. But just because one Baptist or Catholic turned out to be a rapist, that doesn't make them all the same. I'm sure the person and anyone else involved in hurting the victim was disfellowshipped as soon as their congregation learned of this. Not all victims come out about things right away either. This could've gone on for a while without anyone knowing.
Lida
I wanted to reply to the comment by the person who is studying with JW. Just so you know because of Candace Conti's case I found this blog. I was molested by a baptized publisher in 1988-1990. Not only me but my two younger sisters too. It all came to light and a committee was formed. He admitted it and the elders never disfellowshipped so obviously you know now that the proper authorities were also not informed. I am pursuing ways to bring this to light. I tried in 2005 but did not succeed. I just want to let you know how much this incident has affected my life. I have been in and out of mental wards all my life. Been diagnosed with PTSD. Have become an alcoholic and the list goes on. So I am MAD. Really mad at the organization and am ready to fight back especially now that I Candace Conti's story came to light.
Wesley
You have every right to be mad! Abd tgè law gives you tgè right to take anyone to court who does this, it's a crime just like robbing a bank and so on. As far as tgè JW's being a cult your stretching it a bit to say that, yet Jehovah will correct things in his time frame, not man's. Our responsibility is to serve Jehovah, not the Elders and if someone tells you something that does not match the scriptures then we obey Jehovah rather than men. Only if it violates Jehovah's laws, that is what many do not realize, we are bound to Jehovah's laws and the authorities as far as their law coincides with Jehovah's. The courts agreed with Condice, so the branch has to obey that authority, the court did not violate Jehovah's laws so they have to adhere to it, other wise their showing great disrespect toward Jehovah! Will it stop abuse in the Congregations? Obviously not, will it force the Elders to conduct themselves differently? Maybe, some do some don't, but in the end Jehovah's promise is to correct the things that went wrong. His promises always come true! Always!!! My experience is to follow the money.
Steve
Wesley,
Jehovah can't correct things that went wrong. They've already gone wrong, and neither he nor his representatives on Earth were there to keep things from going wrong. The damage has been done. There's no correcting it. Your Jehovah sat up there on his heavenly throne and watched children be molested. Then he "inspired" his organization to not report it because there weren't enough witnesses to the crime! [Even though Jehovah, the perpetrator, and the victim number three witnesses.]
The only thing that can be done now is to punish the perpetrators and demand that the organization change its ways from the immoral rules of their imagined god to the moral decency of human beings. That won't correct anything that went wrong, but it may help prevent future occurrences.
It is not a stretch to say that this organization is a cult when it fits the definition perfectly in so many ways. This is one very good example of what makes it a cult: parents who are brainwashed into valuing the reputation of an organization above the safety of their own children!
Wesley
I can't tell you how opinionated we all are, but it's beyond human thinking to know Jehovah's ways! We will always run into those people who condemn at a level of ignorance. So go ahead and judge it final, because it's just your opinion and that does not mean truth. I dob't blame Jehovah, just that small group of men who failed to keep the congregation clean, abd in this one case they paid a heavy price for their actions. Now people can begin to heal that were involved. There are those who just want to keep the hurt going!
Becky
Betty, I know your post was a few months ago, but being new to this site I just saw it. I hope you still read follow up comments.
The reason Candice won her case is because when "brother" Kendrick was originally caught, the elders covered it up, and didn't even reprove him. The letters they wrote to the society show that their biggest concern was that the victim would tell, and he would get in trouble from the police. The society wrote back giving advice, and did not recommend any action that would protect other members of the congregation, and neglected to remind them of their legal duty to report the molestation to the police. Candice was a later victim. So, it would seem reasonable that after they found out he had abused Candice, they would realize that he didn't deserve mercy a second time. But, no, he's actually still a "brother" in good standing, at least that was the case the last I checked a few weeks ago, well after the brothers knew for a certainty that he was guilty of reoffending.
Candice is the one no longer in good standing, because she committed the sin of telling. A victim of a member of the congregation is forbidden from telling anyone other than the congregation elders. They did change policy and allow victims to call the police, but they still cannot tell other congregation members, or anyone outside of those necessary to prosecute. And Betty, while the society would prefer you to think this is a rare incident, it happens a lot. It's happened in my family, it's happened to my friends. There was a brother I considered dating, but the newspaper posted information about his court case for molesting his little step-daughter. The elders knew, but the congregation was left in the dark because to warn us would be a sin. He wasn't disfellowshipped, although AFTER the newspaper posting, he was publicly reproved. Molestation is hidden in the congregation, as are so many other things.
Betty, if you get baptized, and decide it isn't the truth, please remember the internet is a great place to find ex-JWs who will offer you support. You will need all the support you can get, because the mental torture of losing all of your friends is heart-wrenching.
Nico
Wow Betty. "Not all victims come out about things right away either."? That's blaming the child victimized! Suggesting a "strayed" JW rapist is better than a Baptist or Catholic rapist? Please try not to take offense but do you hear yourself? That's the slant the Muslims use blaming a woman for her own rape because she showed her ankle.
Andrew
Betty,
Thanks for your comment. Being a cult does not mean that there are not nice people in it. "Love Bombing" is a frequent tactic employed by cults to draw you in by making you feel welcomed and special. They are indeed a cult - if you get baptized and then decide to leave, they will stop all that love bombing and will completely shun you. All the love they are showing you is superficial. See: http://www.jehovahswitnessblog...
johnny
@Andrew that is absolutely correct..how long will they continue to cover up child abuse cases?
Shame on the society and shame on members who continuesly deny the rot that is happening within the organisation.
I wont be surprised if victims who had been victimised by the society start taking up their cases to court.
johnny
Proof that Jehovah is not running the organisation..why would God let paedophiles free to do as they please while the innocent victims are suffering silently..that does not make sense..elders and ms within the congregation who prey on little children should be ashamed of themselves..the problem is that they are taking advantage of the 2 witness policy which is seriously flawed and needs to be changed.
Andrew
@Johnny: You are absolutely right. This isn't a case of religious beliefs anymore. Every Jehovah's Witness now needs to ask themselves if, even if all their beliefs are true, do they want to be part of a group that covers up child abuse?
Thing is, many Jehovah's Witnesses are just saying it's all lies - some have even said things like, "Jehovah will give Candace [the child abuse victim] what she deserves if she is lying". Despicable.










Sorry, the browser you are using is not currently supported. Disqus actively supports the following browsers:
FirefoxChromeInternet Explorer 8+Safari
This page is forcing your browser to use legacy mode, which is not compatible with Disqus. Please see our troubleshooting guide to get more information about this error.
We were unable to load Disqus. If you are a moderator please see our troubleshooting guide.
Andres Torres
I have a rare disease that causes me physical pain and mental fog. I've found that meditation can be quite helpful for both of these problems. When I first started doing it I was still a little afraid of getting possessed or attacked. A year later and I'm still me and no demons!
Merri-Ella
I was also told that taking Psychology in school was VERY dangerous, as when you leave that class, your mind never goes back. Very dangerous!
johnny
If you free your mind you will find out the truth, the truth that the wts does not want you to know.
Dillen
They told me all kinds of things to scare me as well...when my parents were in it. I now do karate and have bumped into two JW people in town in my Bushikai Gi and they stayed clear of me for sure! =}
Carol Ali
*all the above*
Also, we were banned from listening to such bands as Queen, ELO, definitely no Heavy Metal. All these had 'Satanic subliminal messages' if we played it backwards!










Sorry, the browser you are using is not currently supported. Disqus actively supports the following browsers:
FirefoxChromeInternet Explorer 8+Safari
This page is forcing your browser to use legacy mode, which is not compatible with Disqus. Please see our troubleshooting guide to get more information about this error.
We were unable to load Disqus. If you are a moderator please see our troubleshooting guide.
Josh
Dear Sir / Ma'am ,
I am writing this letter not to judge or condemn anyone it is very disturbing for any parent to go through such things however most important is the childs welfare, you do bring out some very good points regarding respect for authorities , i know about 14 years ago a friend of mine 2 son's were abused by a brother that was a pioneer in the congregation, the elders met with him of course but again because of the 2 witness rule again how on earth can you get 2 together to witness such a hanus crime however if 2 people were to come forward with similar circumstances that is still considered 2 witnesses even though they may be 2 different occurances. And this is what happened in this case in fact there were actually 4 different individuals that came forward with there own accounts involving the same brother's wrong doing, this should of been enough to merit a disfellowshipping. But for some reason the brother still wasn't disfellowshipped or the incident reported to the police which made me furious when i came to learn about it. Firstly because that is a crime and should be handled by the approiate authorities and second because this individual was able to continue although he did lose his privileges such as pioneering, he was able to move to the neighbouring congregation and got caught out there so again if the approiate action was taken to inform the police further incidents could of been prevented. Haveing said all that though i can to some extent understand why the governing body is saying there not resposible because they didn't commit the wrong doing its kind of like the police arresting the wife if her husband commits a murder if she is totally innocent of the crime . On the other side of the coin if the Governing body were directing elders not to go to the police that might be a different scenario . Going back to my story regarding the incident in the cong i was in about 2 years later we had a letter read out by the P.O. from the Australia branch which specifically stated that anyone who was a victum of any kind of child abuse should report it to the police. So sometimes that problem could either be Elders trying to cover up something which has serious implications and if it could be proven they would be removed for doing such things. Yes it does look very bad unfortunately these things can reflect badly and does bring reproach upon our holy God Jehovah. The Bible has never hidden wrong doing , there are countless references to individuals that have been serving God and turned to wrong doing even such ones as King David, King Solomon if fact nearly all the Kings of Isreal did some really bad things with the exception of Josiah , does the fact that they all did bad mean that we shouldn't worship the true God? What it does mean is we can learn from there bad examples and try and improve . And thats certainly what i hope the Governing Body will do .
Richard Schiller
The scriptures demanding two witnesses does not refer to two witnesses of any crime. It refers to creating two witnesses to the hearing of the matter. In other words, the matter is put into discussion between criminal and victim with a judge and two witnesses of what the judge is hearing. That makes 3 people making a decision. This doesnt mean a judge and 2 witnesses will be true and just and not equally as bad as the criminal justifying the criminal. BUT nor does it mean you are stuck victimized unless two people were watching the crime. The WT publications have drifted in and out of Jehovah's truth on this one, first seeing it correctly interpreted, and then seeing it has forcing victims to have witnesses. Witnesses can see a criminal deny his crime (as an innocent person will also deny the crime he didnt do), but such witnesses will also hear the story change upon 2nd and 3rd discussions of it. Such witnesses will also see the criminal start to blame the victim or accuse the victim of being a liar. There is alot of role-play in any court case that all courts are guilty of. There is more hate against the JWs not because they are always innocent like JOB was, but because they despise times guilt was clearly true (as was the case with high pirest Eli's sons taking virginity from all women coming to the temple). The atitude of THIS TIME WE GOT THEM occurs both with atitudes toward the innocent like Jesus, not just those actually guilty.
Teeny
Wow Richard! Thanks ever so much for clearing that up for me. I'll beg Jehovah for forgiveness and close down this site...
On a more serious note, I'll answer your comment in a new article tomorrow.
Thanks for commenting.
Regards,
Jaymes








Sorry, the browser you are using is not currently supported. Disqus actively supports the following browsers:
FirefoxChromeInternet Explorer 8+Safari
This page is forcing your browser to use legacy mode, which is not compatible with Disqus. Please see our troubleshooting guide to get more information about this error.
We were unable to load Disqus. If you are a moderator please see our troubleshooting guide.
Ryan Okage
She's a horrible f*cking mother. She said she used to think she would die for her son. Now she's focused on living forever while the son she'd "die for" will die alone in her eyes. A parent should be willing at any time to die for the cause of ensuring a better life for their child.
She isn't willing. Nor was she ever. It's all semantics by this point. I am 27 with a 2 year old son. If I had to choose between living forever without my son and dying to save him, put the gun in my mouth now.
Every single JW parent whose child is disfellowshipped would be doing Jehovah's work by spending every waking minute ensuring their child is saved. Do they think associating with their own family in the effort to save them would be an unforgivable slight on God?
Does being a selfish elitist concerned with eternal self preservation get you into paradise? If that's the requirement, I'd like destruction of my soul now. Who would want to be on earth surrounded by assholes like that?
She was clearly told by her elders to cut off communication. She kept saying no one told her to do it, but I can tell the situation went like this: the df'd son told her they would have her do it. She kept saying no. The elders told her to disassociate with him and like Witnesses would do, she had to lie to save face at the cost of her child's well being.
Yawn
Jehovah's Witnesses leaders are lying false prophets. I am an ex-JW and I did much research and found out what false prophets they are. Over 100 false predictions. Jeremiah 28:1-17 shows it only takes one false propecy to be considered outright rebellion by God. Under the old testement law, Jehovah's Witness leaders would have been stoned to death for their false predictions! The real reason they shun is because they realize anyone who researches to 'test everything' (1 Thess 5:21 ) will find out ehat false teachers they are and they don't want to loose their brain-washed minions. Proverbs talks about the folly of men and the words of the Watchtower are pure folly and nonsense. I would give $1 million to any JW that can prove their leaders are not false prophets! I really don't have a concern because there is no way they can be proven true. Google Jehovah's Witnesses false propesies and you will see what I mean. I do feel sorry that so many people are decieved by cults and religion in general. i suppose if God deemed us worthy to know the real truth, He would see to it we would.
Ro
I am going to remain anonymous in order to protect my family from any JW tattle-trailers but feel compelled to share: I am not a JW, my husband is in body but not in mind. I met my husband several years ago who was newly divorced. His ex-wife, his two children and he were JW's. By this time, he had already begun to question the doctrine of "the truth" wondering why the date of Armageddon had come and gone so many times and why the number of god's chosen 144,000 kept changing. Upon meeting me; a feminist, independent woman with a bachelor degree and amazing career; I only further added to his doubts and misgivings about JW-land.
We began dating, un-chaperoned as two grown up adults are wont to do. Over the following months, my husband-then boyfriend, began to fade from the JW ministry. He stopped going to meetings, stopped connecting with other JW's and stopped following its literature. Peeved that her ex-husband had found someone new, the ex-wife reported on my husband to the elders. Several times the elders descended on my husband - calling his home to ask him to meet, showing up unexpectedly at his door, sending letters and all the while threatening with the wrath of the JW kingdom for the most heinous of crimes: adultery and fornication. When all of their attempts were unresponsive, they performed their last trick: over a phone call left on his answering machine, my husband was informed that he had been disfellowshipped.
As a non JW I didn't fully appreciate the impact this would have. I mistakenly thought we would have a new found freedom: no more harassing phone calls, no more door knockers, and best of all no more living the life as a JW. What I didn't realize is that my husband's children were fully indoctrinate into their truth and thereby erased their father from their lives. Their reasoning: they would not be in Jehovah's blessing if they did not consider him to be dead. Obviously, this devastated my husband and he did all he could while disfellowshipped to try and have a relationship with his children; he bought them things, sent them money, attended all parent-school conferences, went to their special events, encouraged them, praised them and on and on and on. Despite all his efforts, his children eventually became baptised and whatever bit of their lives they allowed him, ceased.
This was as much as he could handle, and broken realized he could only do one thing: return to the life of a JW. By now, several years had passed. My husband and I moved in together, made a commitment to each other, and lived our lives. However the one thing that hadn't happened was us getting married. A feminist and a career woman with my own independent income, I felt no such need for a certificate to proclaim my relationship status. We are together forever by our own standards. This of course is not good enough for JW’s. The hypocrisy of an organization that shuns government and yet requires its members to pay for a government licence and produce a government issued certificate of marriage still causes me to shake my head.
I had fought the battle against marriage for several years, refusing to allow a cult to form the basis of my relationship. But it was a losing battle. Worse, my husband couldn't even invite his children to our wedding as he was disfellowshipped. So I agreed to get married. My husband started attending meetings where he was told to sit at the back of the room, was not spoken too and was looked through. The few times I attended with him I was disgusted by how fake-nice everyone was to me (while ignoring my husband) and even more disgusted by the talks which ranged from all women being dirty, stupid whores to all worldly people, especially Jews, being evil agents of Satan.
After a year of going to meetings twice a week my husband felt he had demonstrated his servitude and pressed me to get married. Against everything a stood for, I agreed to a civil ceremony so my husband could show the elders our marriage certificate as proof that he was no longer a sinner. After a few meetings my husband asked an elder why there had been no further advancement to being reinstated. The elder advised that he needed to write a letter to the governing body repenting his sins and outlining his request to once again become a member of the JW Congregation. Feeling like this was an opportunity to silently dissent the Congregation, I wrote the letter, after doing some research online about what the Body of Elders likes to see and copy and pasting some choice phrases. Within a few weeks my husband was reinstated. Overnight, our phone was ringing with "old friends" wanting to reconnect, invites out to gatherings, and most importantly two children who wanted a dad again. I cautioned my husband on getting caught up in the relationships of these fair weather friends who were surely spying on us, peppering us with questions and trying to exclude us from our real friends (people who liked us for who were are, in good times and in bad). Of course, my anxieties went into overdrive, worried that my husband may be brainwashed back into truly believing their messages. Thankfully the Congregation ensured that my anxieties were unfounded as they continued to preach their messages of hate, doom, destruction and fear which enabled my husband to continue with is apostate (JW term for independent) line of thinking. Sadly, we are back to leading double lives. My husband pretending to be a good little JW who doesn't celebrate holidays (we do), connect with worldly people (we do), participates in politics (we do). It’s taken us another year to slowly fade, which I realize is another delusion as one can never wholly fade away. And more unfortunate is the circumstances my husband will forever have with his children. They will marry JW spouses, they will bear JW children and they will forever be brainwashed. This cult is exactly that – a cult. It spews hate, discrimination and uses its tools to keep its people stupid and thoughtless. It especially hates women, education, Jews and anyone who doesn’t think like them. My feminist, socialist and Gaia-theology brain wants to rail against these sheep and rescue the women and children who live and grow in a culture that dooms them. I take solace in sites and blogs such as these, knowing that the JW membership is decreasing and more like minded individuals are fleeing at ever increasing rates. I applaud those who have found the courage and strength to leave and for all those who offer support and guidance. Like others, I use these sites as tools to strengthen my own resolve and that of my family.
Andrew
A sad story, and unfortunately one of many just like it. Thanks for sharing, and I am glad JWB helps you in some way in dealing with it.
jayjay love
i would go without the life jacket. my son's lives would be to precious. so young to young to die.
trusting poet
This just breaks my heart on so many levels. It breaks my heart for David, and it hurts me from my own memories. I didn't get a letter, but I got a phone call. "I'm sorry, but you made your choice and I just can't have a relationship with you while your disfellowshipped. Maybe this is what I should have done from the beginning and you would have come back by now. You have to know there are consequences to not living your life the way Jehovah wants."
My own mother did not come to my baby shower, she did not come to the hospital to see her grandson... It hurts even now to think about it.
She has started talking to me again just recently, but only if it has something to do with her grandchildren, and I know its only because she is hoping they will become Witnesses if she stays in contact with them and "teaches" them "the Truth".
As a mother I could never ever imagine cutting off one of my children, I would give up my last breath before I let someone or something separate us. I struggle to this day wondering what is so wrong with me that my own mother doesn't love me...
Andrew
There's nothing wrong with you - your mother is the one in the wrong here. Don't forget that. To disown a child because they have a different opinion to you... religion makes otherwise good people do horrible things.
johnny
I have a question to any jws out there. Lets say you are in a ship that sank and you find yourself in a life boat with two of your sons, one is a jw the other is disfellowshipped. The boat is sinking theres only two life jackets and you are miles away from the nearest land.
Which one out of the three of you is going to swim without a life jacket?
LynnC
"...and to this end I deeply regret that I must terminate our relationship whilst you remain disfellowshipped."
The only way to terminate a relationship (physical, emotional) between a mother and a child is for one of these parties to actually not be living anymore. And even then, they are still related in terms of genetic factors.
Good.grief...
Non JW Grandma
My granddaughters are being raised by the other grandparents who are JW.
I do notice the lack of empathy for others that I chalked up to young teenager attitude, but from what I have read, it may just be their JW training.
Since I have little say in their day to day life, I just try to be open and let them know they have a safe landing place with me.
msteel
This is how the Koreans got loyal US soldiers brainwashed into being committed communists. See how many things you notice.
1. Become a true friend to this person. .
2. Do nice things for them. give them gifts, priviledges, cigarettes, magazines, books to read etc..
3. Have them agree with you on something small. Keep expanding little by little until they agree with you on something big..
4. Show them how evil their government (world) is.
5. Tell them about the "Real" solution. "The Truth"
6. Use Punishment and reward . Use fear...lots of fear. Give them 2 choices. . One: Tremendous rewards for being obedient. Two: Dreaded punishment for not listening.
7. Cut them off from all outside knollege. Control what they read, see on T.V. etc.
8. Cut themselves off from all former associates. "Capitalist Americans" are wicked and evil.
9. Have them commit them selves to the "Party" Have themselves commit thier whole hearts, souls, minds to the party's Idealsparty spend all their free time in service to the "Party"
10. Send them to the gulags if they ever speak out against the regime.
Amy
Stupid F**king Bitch of a mother/human being!
Well what do you expect from a brainwashed Jehovah's Witness Cult member?
If the son returned and later needed a blood transfusion, the mother would easily sacrifice him to her mythical watchtower god joeboobah.
These assholes should not be allowed to breed!!!
Margot
Recognizing one's right to leave an organization does not address how the organization will treat it's excommunicated. That statement from the spokesperson does not ask their followers not to do what she did to her son but it does indicate the group won't prevent people from leaving.
JC Hamner
I agree about JW being a cult that causes much completely unnecessary dissention among families, as with religion in general, and Christianity in particular, but somewhat worse than most denominations. However, the part about the sports allegiances, however glib, makes you seem only a shade away in spirit. For my part, hearing such allegiances that stem from nationalism or other arbitrary things like local/family membership makes it really hard not to dismiss someone, thinking "What an idiot." I didn't write that to level an insult, but decided it was worth giving my persprective, in the same spirit as "Don't go out in that hat, it makes you look stupid, and people will be thinking just that" especially when publicly talking about others' barking mad choices of head covering.
Lacy
JWs use absurd logic to justify actions such as this. First off, it is supposed to be an act of love according to them. If they cut you off from all your friends and family, it will punish you and you will want to return to the religion. When I was disfellowshipped, my dad originally supported that belief system. It only took a few weeks for him to change his mind. He said that if I was going to decide to come back to the religion just because I wanted to talk to my friends and family, then I would be going back for the wrong reasons. If I should choose to go back, it should be because I wanted to serve Jehovah and not for any other reason. I know it is earth-shattering to have a JW who thinks independently and makes sense! Luckily for him, the elders have so far no chosen to DF him for his horrifying rebellion. Of course, they may not know about it.
Secondly, I have heard JWs say that it is not cruel or unloving to cut out loved ones from your lives if they leave the faith because Jehovah is going to kill them at Armageddon anyway. That's like saying that if a loved one gets cancer and is going to die from it and the docs can't do anything to help, we should automatically just stop seeing or speaking to that loved one. They are going to die so we might as well just treat them as dead now and get on with out lives. Why waste time spending every moment we can with them while they are alive? Who does that????
Andrew
It's sad because this sort of thing is standard - it isn't a one-off. I had this message from my step-mother (who had raised me from the age of about 3) in May 2011, after I told her I no longer believed in god:
"If you had stopped being a witness for Jehovah, I would have always hoped and prayed for your faith to return, but as you no longer wish to be associated with the faith, you have made a statement against it.This is your choice, your life, your belief. Mine hasn't changed, and therefore
feel it necessary to not continue with our relationship. Please understand, this is what you believed also to be the right course once. I will always love that little boy I watched grow. And miss him terribly. Please 'believe this'.
Sickening, isn't it!
DeRanged Jdub
Who says WHILST ???? Other than a Shakespearean actor? Just say while.
Danny Haszard
Thanks for posting this experience.
I can identify and share,the Watchtower is a high demand apocalyptic cult-like group.
I left the Jehovah's Witnesses when I determined that they are 'not the truth'.Jesus did not return for his *invisible* second coming October 1914 and subsequently anoint the Watchtower a special commission.
My own family is now required to shun me for exercising my freedom of beliefs to leave the JW.-Danny Haszard Bangor Maine










Sorry, the browser you are using is not currently supported. Disqus actively supports the following browsers:
FirefoxChromeInternet Explorer 8+Safari
This page is forcing your browser to use legacy mode, which is not compatible with Disqus. Please see our troubleshooting guide to get more information about this error.
We were unable to load Disqus. If you are a moderator please see our troubleshooting guide.
MARLANDA
Jehovah has opened my eyes. I never completely understood until now. This is the reason my step father who was a Jehovah's Witness @ the time along with my mother & uncle was not disfellowshipped for what he did to me. He raped me in the back of the ambulance under the sheets with the paramedic there. My mother and uncle knew that the paramedic saw this. The paramedic told the doctor & cps were brought in & my mother still refused to press charges. I never understood until this month why when I asked my mother why they did not disfellowshipped her husband for what he did to me & why she continued to be with this man for some time afterwards. She told me then, that only the paramedic saw. My God, was not my word & the word of the paramedic not enough?! These people were sick! They have damaged me! No one tried to seek counceling for me. I was all alone. To this day I am still trying to heal my mind, heart & spirit. They need to be exposed! They showed no compassion for me as a child!
silentlambsilentnomore
Well done Niki. Go to silentlambs.org for more help if you need it in a case like this. Bill is an absolutely wonderful man and has helped so many silent lambs be no longer silent. Shout it as loud as you can. The more people know about this, the better.
niki pacheco
I am from Pickering Ontario Canada and was molested by Frank Loiacano from Whitby Ontario Canada when i was 9. I told my mom and she was told by the local brothers in Belvedere congregation to keep quiet because of reproach on jehovahs name. The abuse continued anf my mother had nervous breakdowns. Now i am 43 and the minute i started talking about this i was disfellowshipped. Now i am going to the police to catch FRANK LOIACANO. AND THEN I WILL SUE THE WATCH TOWER BIBLE TRACT SOCIETY.
NIKI PACHECO
Righteous
I'm not in a religion but I have much respect & appreciate the jehovah's witness association. & all you Catholics are on the news ever other week molesting children and abusing kids and the church covers it up. The difference is the witnesses have NO part of such indecent acts, stimuli hate and disapprove of such acts but Catholics are well aware and help the molestors! There is no 2 witness rule go ask and elder. BLASPHEMY is the only unforgivable sin (talking against God and saying there Is no god or that we are superior to him). Jehovah is a God of love and justice. What happens in the dark will be brought to light by means of him and his holy name and active force. Acts 20:29: " I know that after my going away oppressive wolves will enter in among you and will not treat the flock with tenderness, and from among you yourselves men will rise and speak TWISTED THINGS TO DRAW AWAY DISCIPLES AFTER THEMSELVES."
Andrew
You clearly don't care about truth and voluntarily stay blinded. The two witness rule isn't secret. You can look it up yourself. You can see how it played a part in the Candace Conti court case. You can go and ask an elder. Go on. Do it and let me know what he says.
silentlambsilentnomore
@Righteous you sound extremely ignorant to the 2 witness rule that the WTBTS has put in their so called child protection policy. So called because it does not protect a child whatsoever in any form of child abuse. But here let me save you the trouble. Here is the updated version of the child protection policy, brand new this month. And no one said Catholics were not at fault either. And by the way, whilst on the subject of it, there would be more cases of sexual abuse with the JW's if the victims were not paid to shut up and keep quiet about it. As one of the first children to speak out, one of the first JW silentlambs, it is a hrad task in front of you, one which is not entered into lightly, but with not much experience of how the world works either down to the sheltered upbringing a JW child has. Anyway for your reading pleasure. NOW YOU KNOW IT'S NOT LIES. http://www.jehovahswitnessblog...
Marly
Just punch in safe haven for pedophiles and one of the links is The Watchtower and Bible Tract Society. Enough said!
Marly
The society had a few outs with the two witness rule like in Deut if there weren't enough witnesses then the king became the judge and had to decide the final outcome.
Or in John chapter eight where the pharisees ask Jesus who are his two witnesses and he states himself along with his father, Jehovah. Just like instead of Jesus it would have been the victim, Candace, and her father Jehovah! That should have been enough.
I've often mulled this over since I was raised as a Jehovah's witness and starting at the tender age of four, my father had molested me. I also had a handicapped sister who till this day will point at her privates when you ask her where did dad touch her and I have the eldest sister who also was molested by him and when she told the elders they stated she needed two witnesses and to keep quiet about it for it would bring reproach uponJehovah's name and organisation. Three girls in the family and each one needed two witnesses? Even though there were three sisters in the family who were all witnesses to his evil crimes. I am now fifty-two, my handicap sister is fifty-four and my eldsest sister is sixty-five.
I don't regret working at the bethel farm or pioneering nor my sister who special pioneered and pioneered for forty years but society has got to change the two witness rule. There is no way Jehovah's holy spirit is directing this organisation to hide and protect pedophiles.
I love Jehovah God
I guess you did not want anybody to see any other part of their policy, did you? Well, here it is:
In addition to making a report to the branch office, the elders may be required by law to report even uncorroborated or unsubstantiated allegations to the authorities. If so, the elders receive proper legal direction to ensure that they comply with the law. Additionally, the victim or anyone else who has knowledge of the allegation may wish to report the matter to the authorities, and it is his or her absolute right to do so.
What kind of parent would allow their child to go anywhere with an adult who was not their family or highly reputable such as a well-known daycare or nanny? If a child can not confide in their parents, there is a serious problem. No decent parent would let child abuse happen without reporting it to the law or retaliating toward the accused.
trusting poet
I can tell you in my own personal experience that this did not happen. I told my mom what the elders son who also happened to be our neighbors had been doing. The elder and his son then came to our home and we had a "meeting" in which I said what he had been doing. He actually admitted it, but that is as far as it went. The elder apologized and promised it would stop, but of course it didnt. It continued for 4 years and no one ever stopped it. The elders son was about 17 when it started and I was about 6. It didnt stop until I was around 10 and he moved away.
silentlambsilentnomore
@ I love Jehovah God. You said and I quote "What kind of parent would allow their child to go anywhere with an adult who was not their family or highly reputable such as a well-known daycare or nanny? If a child can not confide in their parents, there is a serious problem. No decent parent would let child abuse happen without reporting it to the law or retaliating toward the accused. " Could you tell me something then? A member of Jehovah's Witnesses in good standing a Ministerial Servant commits the heinous crime of abusing HIS daughter. Not just sexually but physically as well. The belt comes off in the mens bathroom repeatedly striking the child for maybe making a little noise during a meeting. Elders, Ms and other members hear the cries from this child. Yet they do nothing. In cases of sexual abuse, there is no other witness. Just the perp and the victim. Most of my abuse happened behind closed doors, usually when my mother was not there. CAN YOU TELL ME HOW THAT MS A PERSON WITHIN GOOD STANDING WITHIN THE CONGREGATION IS A DECENT PARENT. See it's not just members out with blood family that it happens. It is also members within the blood family it happens. I have said it once and I will say it again. Read Romans 13:1-7 if you still believe the word of God, only read this and come to YOUR OWN conclusion as to what that scripture means. But as far as I am concerned if I truly believed in the bible as a lot of people do, I would not wish to seek the wrath of God, by not heeding his word, for some organisation that has got it WRONG !!!!!!!
Andrew
Yes, but the fact is that in many cases, this DOESN'T get reported, as the court case of Candace Conti recently proved.
In the USA for example, the elders should report it to the police FIRST, not the branch office. In the recent Candace Conti case, which you can look up, the elders contacted the branch office first, who told the elders NOT to report it to the police and 'leave it up to Jehovah' which basically means do nothing. (Wouldn't forensic evidence act as a second witness?) This is illegal, which is why they lost the case. There's not even an appeal from the Watchtower. Can't argue with that evidence.
johnny
As long as the 2 witness rule is in place ther will be monsters within the congregation. Who will suffer ? The elders? paedophiles? or children ?
How many more children have to suffer before the bufoons in head quarters start taking action?
One reason why theres a lot of paedophiles within the jw org is that ther are those who have comitted this type of crimes before getting baptised, once they are baptised and are in good standing in the congregation thats when they start preying on kids knowing ver well about the flaws with some of the jw teachings and one good example is the 2 witness rule .
Matt2414
Ryan, I used to be exactly like you, a loyal Witness defending the policies of the men who make up the governing body without question, while ignoring what the Bible itself says. Yes, I believed in the "two witnesses" rule too, which made it difficult for child molesters to be caught and prosecuted. Oh well, God is Almighty and he cannot be wrong. Too bad for the little children though.
But while I was in Bethel, I began hearing rumblings from high up that the members of the governing body were no longer running the organization, but that the attorneys were. There was more of an emphasis on protecting the organization from lawsuits, than there was on following scripture and relying on Jehovah. After praying for divine direction my eyes opened and it became so crystal clear: Wait a minute! The "two witness" rule isn't a rule that Christians have to obey, it was part of the Mosaic Law, which no longer applies to Christians (Deut 19:15). True, some Witnesses have mistakenly taught that Christians must obey "principals" of the Law of Moses, but you won't find that man-made teaching anywhere in Scripture. The closest example of this in the Bible is when the Pharisees took the "principals" of the Law of Moses and then made new laws, in an effort to control and lord it over disciples, but Jesus condemned such manipulation of the Bible. Of course, it is true that Jesus referred to the "two witnesses" rule at Matt. 18:15-17, but he was speaking to individuals who were still under the Mosaic Law, just as the Insight book, vol. 1, page 499 says. But no where do we find that Christians are still under this rule. In fact, the elders in Jerusalem later examined the scriptures to see which ancient laws were still in effect after Christ died and they made no mention of the "two witnesses" rule, preferring not to add any additional burden on the members of the new Christian congregation. (Acts 15:28, 29).
But think about it, even if the "two witness" rule were still in effect, it does not apply to Caesar. It would only apply to the congregation. Caesar says that anyone hearing a child molestation report must inform the authorities. It doesn't matter if the accused is guilty or not, because Caesar will determine guilt. That's the law. Caesar doesn't care if the elders conduct a judicial committee or if the elders call the legal department, they still have the legal obligation to tell Caesar of any report of child abuse. Jesus said to give Caesar's things to Caesar and God's things to God. It's that same principal that prompts Witnesses to register for the draft. Witnesses don't fight in war, but they do register. Likewise, reporting cases of alleged child abuse doesn't mean guilt, it's just a report.
The elders and even the organization share the guilt of child molesters because they harbor individuals who may indeed be child abusers. They may claim they do not have two witnesses, but how do they know that the authorities don't have two or more witnesses? Caesar may have a record of previous abuse that the elders are not aware of. The elders may believe they are thorough when appointing an elder, but I don't ever remember them running a police report on brothers to see if they have a clean record. That's why it is vital that molestation reports be made to Caesar. It is the law and the right thing to do.
James 1:27 says: “The form of worship that is clean and undefiled from the standpoint of our God and Father is this: to look after orphans and widows in their tribulation, and to keep oneself without spot from the world.” Any organization that puts their legal asses above the welfare of children obviously does not represent the interests of the Almighty. The conduct of the Witness organization is indefensible and no different than the conduct of the Catholic Church, which the Witnesses themselves have criticized. Jehovah hates hypocrites and those who support them. How can you defend such conduct without actually sharing in their guilt? (Psalm 50: 18, 21-22)
trusting poet
I wish there would have been someone who was capable of thinking and using this logic when I was a child in the organization.
Joshua McCann
Sampson, this is not the first time that the organization has been in the cross hairs of the US court. In fact, in 2007 the Watchtower Organization settled out of court with 16 child abuse cases brought forth with evidence of the organization's knowledge of placing a known, convicted, child abuser into multiple positions of power.
By settling outside of court, the organization was effectively admitting guilt as innocent people don't settle.
There have also been (according to the WTO) 11 elders taken to the court over sexual abuse, however any accusations toward the organization in those cases were thrown out.
In this particular case, the organization's actions were called into question because the child abuser was not an elder but a member of the organization.
Also, since 2002, victims have been coming out and giving testimonials about any abuse they had suffered in the organization due to many elders reportedly dissuading victims from going to the authorities. The WTO was called into question in that sense since many reports across the country had painted elders as wanting to deal with child abuse internally and interfered with the victim's right to go to the police. This was such a huge issue that WTO wrote to the congregations telling them that they should never dissuade people from going to the authorities over matter of abuse.
Regardless of wither you believe the WTO is guilt free and the elders called into question were a few over zealous bad eggs, or if you believe the WTO gave up the elders as scapegoats for following WTO policy, the fact is that many congregations did overstep legal bounds in reporting child abuse prior to 2002. As the case with Conti, the abuse was happening over the years of 1995 and 1996. This was, of course, before the WTO's letter to the congregations.
Finally, child abuse in the organization has been addressed in a PBS documentary called "Suffer the Little Children." The WTO attempted to suppress this documentary completely.
Since 2002, the number of people coming forth about child abuse suffered in the organization has been growing.
So no, this is not the first time the WTO was taken to court by someone; It's not even the first time someone has accused the organization of foul misdeeds.
DeRanged Jdub
I make no apologies for making this so obviously simple - you don't have two witnesses in order to take action and disfellowship a wrongdoer... Ok .. Got it... But the elders lack the moral compass to "Obey Caesars Law" and report criminal actions against children. Just wait till it's your kid Elder Joe- let's see what song you sing then! Pioneering every April isn't going to fix it.
CALLING ALL PEDOPHILES ... become a Jdub: they got'cher back!!
Sampson amens
I am a Jehovah's Witness and I understand your frustration but you must understand that Jehovah had (and still has no doubt) a purpose for adding the two witness rule in the Bible. Child abuse is terrible and sickening but who are we to argue with the almighty? The same principle applies to Jehovah creating the Earth prior to the Sun. There is always a reason and a "why" with Jehovah. He is the almighty and knows what's best for us.
With the child abuse issues, nothing can be done unless there are two witnesses or additional victims come forward. The real issue is flushing these monsters out of the congregation. Don't you worry about that, Jehovah culls the congregation continually. For instance, can you tell me how many child molesters have been removed from our ranks BEFORE they could touch a child? No you can't. But I see you jumping on the proverbial bandwagon at the first scene of a lady taking the Organization to court. She's the first to have done so. What does that tell you? It tells me that Jehovah allowed this to happen in order to flush out the trash. "The love of the greater number will cool off". Jehovah was talking about us in that scripture. He will continue to trim his followers until his great day is upon us.
How would you like to live in a world where there were no more child molesters, rapists, murderers, thieves and evil men? Jehovah promises us this in his New World that he will prepare for us. Jehovah is all powerful, yet doesn't intervene in human affairs. His slave here on earth are the ones that are caring for us. And these ones have loved us and continue to love us, therefore is not nice to say that these ones implemented this two witness rule so that they could benefit. What do they stand from benefiting from harbouring child molesters? Nothing. That's why we need to rely on Jehovah for direction and love.
Warm Christian Love,
Ryan
randa
earth before the sun ...I dont think so
Loren.
Horrible morals. You say "What does that tell you? It tells me that Jehovah allowed this to happen in order to flush out the trash" what??? Jehovah lets old men stick pens into little girl’s vaginas as some sort of test? He collaborates with Kendrick and does an oral “test” a written test a sexual abuse test on a 9 yr old child " in order to flush out the trash"
What a trashy paedophile enabling view. You are as guilty as the abuser. Your so called religion is an abomination.
Keep your so called "Warm Christian Love"
silentlambsilentnomore
@Sampson WHY ARE YOU DEFENDING THE WTBTS ? Why do you think silent lambs has been going for twelve years or so ? Do you think Bill Bowen is just another mentally diseased apostate that knows nothing ? This has been going on for years and years. Time to fully understand the two witness rule. And pay ceasers things to ceaser, i.e. ELDERS YOU LISTENING ? GOOD? When a member of your congregation comes to you and tells you that he/she has sinned, and that sin should be punishable not only by God but by the authorities down below then go and tell the respected authorities. Get on the phone anonymously if you can and turn that paedophile, murderer, child abuser in. Romans 13:1-7 and you can check if you like but it tells me that governing authorities are government, law enforcement etc etc ok so here goes Romans 13:1-7 says "Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, for he is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer. Therefore one must be in subjection, not only to avoid God's wrath but also for the sake of conscience. ..." Just because the Governing Body has said to you all that you should go to them or go to Jehovah does not mean that you should physically just go and do that and do nothing else. Mmmm Maybe actually scrutinise the scripture for yourself if that's what you wish to do and I respect your beliefs as I once was a Jehovah's Witness. Now I no longer call myself even a christian because I do not hold the same beliefs but value anyone who are true to themselves and the rest of the general public.
Andrew
@Sampson amens - you say, "Child abuse is terrible and sickening but who are we to argue with the almighty?" We have obviously outgrown the 'almighty' and become more moral than him. So we don't need him.
Also, what kind of sick god would let children be abused, and the molesters protected, for some bigger point? You miss the point about the child abuse case - 'Gods' organization actively protected child molesters, AND STILL DOES. Why be a part of such a disgusting thing? When you heard about the Catholic church doing the same thing, you'd have no doubt felt disgusted at it, and taken it as proof that they aren't gods people. If the Catholics had said that god was just cleaning his organization by letting the rot get exposed, you'd probably have thought it wrong. It's the same thing here. You are trying to make excuses for the organization, when there are NO excuses for this. Can't you see how wrong that is? How you have to twist logic to find some kind of excuse? It isn't on.










Sorry, the browser you are using is not currently supported. Disqus actively supports the following browsers:
FirefoxChromeInternet Explorer 8+Safari
This page is forcing your browser to use legacy mode, which is not compatible with Disqus. Please see our troubleshooting guide to get more information about this error.
We were unable to load Disqus. If you are a moderator please see our troubleshooting guide.
Lorna Valcin
This is a classic case of misinterpreting the Bible and the failure to use reason. Preaching false doctrines will cause people to stumble. Believing false doctrines can lead to untimely death. The Bible states that we should not eat or drink blood. We must not worship idols or engage in cannibalism. It also gives us instructions on how we are to cleanse and prepare an animal before consumption in order to prevent the spread of disease. Jesus shed his blood for us so that we can have eternal life. He is our example. Therefore receiving s blood transfusion is not a sin. What is a sin is when we allow someone to die when we could have saved them. An even greater sin is committing suicide. God's healing may come through a miracle, medical procedure, or medicine. He may use the of hands of a minister, doctor or nurse on earth. The Bible states that there is life in the blood. The opposite of that also holds true: There is death in rejecting the blood.
Andrew
@Lorna - The bible also tells us the correct way to treat slaves, how to beat them properly, what food we shouldn't eat and what fabrics we shouldn't wear - all in the same books that discuss cannibalism and blood. I think the bigger issue is that people still use this book to decide how to live. Society as a whole has morals that are of a higher stance than those in the bible - even Jesus condoned slavery. Let's just say, "we're better than this," and do away with following the bible at all.











Sorry, the browser you are using is not currently supported. Disqus actively supports the following browsers:
FirefoxChromeInternet Explorer 8+Safari
This page is forcing your browser to use legacy mode, which is not compatible with Disqus. Please see our troubleshooting guide to get more information about this error.
We were unable to load Disqus. If you are a moderator please see our troubleshooting guide.
David Swingle
Most interestingly, Candice Conti was only suing for $1,440 -- one penny for each of the "144,000" Witnesses who supposedly are going to heaven. She refused to negotiate a settlement with the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society lawyers.
The jurors awarded her the $28,000,000--she was not interested in money.
Her only goal was to change the secret policy that orders JW Elders to immediately notify their headquarters of any allegation of sexual abuse. Nowhere are they instructed to immediately notify the police or the child protection authorities.
They are more interested in protecting their property and money than the lives of innocent children.
“They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’
“He will reply, ‘I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’ " ~ Matthew 25:44-45.
Hmmm... guess who's NOT going to heaven?
Danny Haszard
Penn State,Pedophile Priest cleric enabler and Jehovah's Witnesses molestation unholy trinity big news same week.
Jehovah's Witnesses hit with $28 million sex abuse settlement Oakland,Calif.-Google it.
Many court documents and news events prove that Jehovah Witnesses require two witnesses when a child comes forward with allegations of molestation within the congregation.
It has also been shown that child molesters within the organization usually have not been identified to the congregation members or the public at large.
These people engage in a door to door ministry, possibly exposing children to pedophiles.
The Watchtower corporation has paid out millions in settlement money already.
--
Danny Haszard *tell the truth don't be afraid*
Dale Mowday
JWdom is going down. YAY
Lacy
Now they can say "See look! In 2007 we were trying to help parents protect children. We aren't responsible for what the courts say we are!"
In the congregation where I lived for many years, I had a very close friend who was about a decade older than I am. Her husband was a ministerial servant and well loved. Turns out he was luring neighborhood girls to his home, where he worked during the day, and molesting them while his wife was out. It ended up being the biggest case of child molestation that the county has ever seen. He was DFed briefly at one point a few years before this. Makes me wonder if the elders knew and just weren't saying anything to the cops. Very sad and sick.
Teeny
@Lacy,
To be honest with you, I think the Watchtower's legal team will start hammering over the "Protection of Children" and "Stay Away from Child Molesters" articles until the Candace Conti appeal.
They must think the judge can be swayed by their behaviour. Unfortunately for them, he's not a drone Jehovah's Witness and I can see their appeal falling flat on its face.
Regards,
Jaymes










Sorry, the browser you are using is not currently supported. Disqus actively supports the following browsers:
FirefoxChromeInternet Explorer 8+Safari
This page is forcing your browser to use legacy mode, which is not compatible with Disqus. Please see our troubleshooting guide to get more information about this error.
We were unable to load Disqus. If you are a moderator please see our troubleshooting guide.
Sparlock
I promise you all that the Blue Plastic Abyss will only hold me for so long.
Soon, I will rise and travel to the past when Caleb was in his mothers belly and Astalavista them both. Judgement Day is coming.
On a more serious note, the two glossary terms you've shown us are hilarious. If the rest of the glossary is even minutely like those two entries, I can't wait to read it!
Sparlock









Sorry, the browser you are using is not currently supported. Disqus actively supports the following browsers:
FirefoxChromeInternet Explorer 8+Safari
This page is forcing your browser to use legacy mode, which is not compatible with Disqus. Please see our troubleshooting guide to get more information about this error.
We were unable to load Disqus. If you are a moderator please see our troubleshooting guide.
Dominique
I thought as much that you are once a witness. But seriously, the purpose of disfellowship is for correction, bringing one back to his/her senses. I think if really you are a focused person, you would have seen that is not all about brainwashing but all things are been said from the bible. Even the so called religion you approve don't even know how to open their bibles or make reference. They claim hell is real yet they can't prove it.
I understand your plight. I don't know you but based on your write ups, it seems u where disfellowshipped thus your aggression. Remember that no one is been disfellowshipped without committing a serious sin which obviously the bible condemns. And besides, even if the weightest of sin is been committed and you confess willingly, there is need for you to be forgiven. I would have been fine if possible, you state the sin you committed in the christian congregation so that does that are supporting you can also read that before commenting. I would really love to hear that part. Remember that it is better for someone who has not come to the truth than someone who has come to the truth and then stray away.
Andrew
Hi Dominique,
I didn't write this post, but I know Teeny well enough to say he doesn't believe any religion. We don't speak up about religion because we are angry about our past. You need to evaluate each argument on its own merit, not by who is saying it and why.
You said, "They claim hell is real yet they can’t prove it." And you can't prove god exists either. What's the difference?
"Remember that no one is been disfellowshipped without committing a serious sin" That just isn't true, Dominique, sorry to break it to you. And I wasn't disfellowshipped and didn't do any evil thing - I disassociated myself because I no longer wanted to be part of a cult. If I hadn't done so, I'd still technically be a Jehovah's Witness. Teeny, for example, is a Jehovah's Witness, though he speaks out about them and is technically an 'apostate'. He hasn't been disfellowshipped.
If you're just here to have a go, don't bother, but if you are genuinely interested in learning about Jehovah's Witnesses, take a look and read more of our posts. Everything we say is true - if you find a bit that isn't true, let me know (email andrew AT jehovahswitnessblog.com) and I'll remove it from the site. I mean it. You can't get fairer than that.
D.G.
Andrew - agree completely, however there is an important difference in my mind between these two items. One, as you point out, is that the chance of God is just as unlikely as the chance construction of a squid. That's all fine and good, but a waste of time to bring up to a JW or most any believers - because they feel a connection of some sort to what they believe is God, and to them the connection itself is proof. (Unlikely, yes, but you can't prove them wrong really.)
The more important and relevant issue in communication/publications is the fact that it is an outright LIE, NOT a feeling or belief system, to say that the living things around us arose via either 'chance' or 'designed by a supernatural being'. Between those two choices, yes, design is more plausible. It is LIE to leave out that there are more choices than those.
I feel we have to focus on the glaring lies first before there is any chance of ever getting anywhere else.
Andrew
D.G. I cannot prove them wrong, but it is not up to me to prove them wrong. The burden of proof is with the person making the claim for gods existence. It is no different than if I said there was an invisible fairy on my shoulder. You couldn't prove me wrong and unless I proved it to you, you wouldn't believe it. I agree that religious people think that personal experience is evidence, when it clearly isn't.
I absolutely love learning about evolution and I completely agree with you that the JWs clearly lie outright about it, and they can not use ignorance as an excuse - their argument about micro vs macro evolution is just deliberately confusing, they misquote scientists (or don't provide references) and more.
I think the way forward isn't so much to point out evolution to people (though I can never help myself) but to encourage critical thinking and explain what good reasons are for believing something, and what are bad reasons.
Really nice chatting with you by the way!
D.G.
There seems to be no logical questions that can be posed to JW's to cause them to give thought to the contradictions/problems, but you say to keep trying.
Can you provide us a guide book of what you would suggest are the most important points or questions to pose to JW's when they come to my door?
I've often thought - would they consider it fair if I promised to read their literature (take notes and follow up too if they like) if they'd promise to read something of mine in return. I'm guessing they'd refuse?
Thanks!
Teeny
Hi DG,
Sounds like a good idea. I suppose it also depends on what your agenda is.
For instance, do you want to ask a series of questions that will make the Jehovah's Witnesses realise that 1) you're a 'no-hoper', 2) interested, or 3) maybe interested and therefore warrants a return visit?
I suppose I could put together a few lists of questions that meet the above agendas.
PS. There's nothing wrong with stringing Jehovah's Witnesses along because 1) it cheers you up, and 2) allows the JW to mark you down as a return visit.
D.G.
I guess my agenda would be to string them along long enough for them to see clearly some glaring errors. In particular the most infuriating thing for me are the articles that misrepresent evolution as equivalent to "chance." They would have us believe there are 2 choices: design or chance. Of course that list of choices is *missing* evolution entirely. Last one I saw was about whale blubber or something.
If that means a return visit to drill it in, I'm ok with that.
Agreed - it does cheer me up.
Andrew
D.G. that is also something that really irritates me as well. They spout out example after example... the giant redwood - chance or design? And then they attribute it to a god that would have even less 'chances' of existing and think that answers everything. I think there was a recent one about bird feathers too and they quote a scientist who happened to use the word 'designed' and took it from there.
DeRanged Jdub
One exit away from Crazytown.
Brad L. Wilson
And that’s my point!
Exactly, if any of theses things are taught by your religion and they are not "true" then it absolutely matters. The fact that so many just shut their brain down to this is beyond frustrating.











Sorry, the browser you are using is not currently supported. Disqus actively supports the following browsers:
FirefoxChromeInternet Explorer 8+Safari
This page is forcing your browser to use legacy mode, which is not compatible with Disqus. Please see our troubleshooting guide to get more information about this error.
We were unable to load Disqus. If you are a moderator please see our troubleshooting guide.
Bonnie
I remember sitting in a high school gym (those were the days before we even had assembly halls) in 1964. At that time, the speaker announced that Armageddon was no longer "around the corner;" it was staring us in the face. I was part of the Dub generation chanting "stay alive till '75. It didn't come then, either. I was told in 1977 that it might be better to hold off getting married since the new system was so close. Nope. 1981 - might not want to have that baby yet since the end is near. Nada! 1987-1999 told to stay with my abusive ministerial servant husband because it was a "test" from God. Nice. Thanks for that, God! You sadistic bastard! And besides, my reward would be here "soon!" Life in God's new order.
The point is, for forty YEARS I have been told by the almighty WT society that the end is "near" and Armageddon is "close" and the new order will be here "soon." I call bullshit on all of it and all of them. Wasted a lot of years in the cult. Got out at age 42 and have been really LIVING my life for the past 12 years and loving every minute of it.
Dizzy
Thing is they just don't notice what they teach.
The Jesus dying and resurrected after three days. Is apparently both REAL and FIGURATIVE
And in 3 "days" jesus will return and armageddon starts.
A "day" in the bible is 1000 years according to them.
So..... Jesus dies 33 A.D
So according to what THEY believe its not "soon"
It Can't be 1000 years a day to them for creation and something different later on. So by their OWN maths.
3 days = 1000 years a day... means 3033 A.D would be the "third day"
JW
A day Isnt a thousand years to them its seven thousand years.
Atleast they have the guts to acctually hmmm... idk... Read the Bible!
You see everything that's not exactly attractive about the religion but the stuff the teach isn't just spiritual. A lot of it is just about how to survive in this twisted messed up system that Jehovah WILL bring to an end
Dizzy
Actually.. I take that back. I WAS RIGHT in te first place. As you said... READ THE BIBLE. and look up 2 Peter 3:8 ... Hmmm whats that?? A day to God is 1000 years... OH OH OH.. where oh where is 7000???
Dizzy
Well that makes it even better then. That would make 7000 years a day....
So the end is in 21033 A.D
EVEN FURTHER AWAY than soon
Andrew
@JW - I have read the bible several times. That's what made me an atheist. I saw I was more moral than the god written in the bible and that there are many biblical principles that shouldn't be followed. It's all well and good if a book has useful advice in it - that is a separate issue as to whether all the claims are true. There is no evidence that god exists, so why live our lives assuming he does? You don't do that for Thor or Ra, so why Jehovah?










Sorry, the browser you are using is not currently supported. Disqus actively supports the following browsers:
FirefoxChromeInternet Explorer 8+Safari
This page is forcing your browser to use legacy mode, which is not compatible with Disqus. Please see our troubleshooting guide to get more information about this error.
We were unable to load Disqus. If you are a moderator please see our troubleshooting guide.
razomatic
This was a very well written article. I was born a Jehovah's Witness back in good ole 1971, right when things were getting ready to hit the fan so to speak as far as the world ending. You know, it's a very sad thing, but for the longest time I dealt with issues growing up and having a family of my own, because I was never expected to live that long. I couldn't see past the "END OF THE WORLD!!"
I am 41 years old, and it has taken me all this time to finally be mentally free from this hateful and arrogant religion. We learned to hate the world, hate Christendom, hate the soldiers that fight in wars, hate the government because they are in the power of Satan.
What I have learned through 9 months of study of MY OWN... Is that Jesus Christ was our perfect example here, and Christ never taught anything near what they are teaching. They are almost obsessed with the chanting of saying Jehovah over and over. They say things like "Jehovah doesn't like that". Or, "Jehovah will destroy those people" (if someone ticks them off). "Jehovah is mad at this person or that person". It's just maddening to me to even THINK that way now that I can see in from the outside.
Soooooo glad to be away from this evil empire of complete madness. My family still believes it hardcore.
Lady Libertine
Hi, Andrew.
The governing body a few months back printed a few paragraphs in a watchtower study about it nearly being the hundredth anniversary of the beginning of Christ's Reign (1914-2014), so the end HAD to be close.
I remember hearing a lot of the friends in my congregation concur with this and it made me wonder how many were even unconsciously expecting the end to be by or shortly after 2014.
Their 1914 doctrine has already gone off the rails into nonsense (the latest "this generation" interpretation) to the point, even loyal JWs can't make sense of it.
This last Spring, during a shepherding call, I asked two elders about it. They told me the usual line about "overlapping generations". I pointed that Matthew 24:34 did not use the word "overlapping" or "generations" (plural). Dead silence.
I just feel they're getting more extreme. I've only mentally been out a year and it could have always been this way but it doesn't feel that way.
They're making child-indoctrination videos and a brochure all about themselves (the GB!) at the latest convention. They're talking about higher education like it's the early 80's again as if they never softened up about it.
Every new outline I hear is a one-way ticket to crazy. Confused about the new generation teaching- shut up about it and stay in line with the latest truth! Want to go to college? Faithless!
Sure, maybe it's because I've just woken up but something seems different to me.
I feel, as many others have suggested, that the leadership is about to make a major doctrine change. Drop 1914, make it symbolic, blood transfusions are a conscience matter? Not sure what, just call it a little intuition. ;)
Thanks for listening to the long-winded post.
Andrew
Maybe you're right. Teeny is convinced that in the next few years, blood will be a conscience issue. I don't think they'll ever drop 1914 as it is too ingrained in their doctrine. This new generation teaching allows them to hold onto it for at least another 80 years or so.
I don't think the JWs are worse now - you only have to look at their literature from the past years. I just think, as you suggest, you woke up. So many people are waking up, and I think a huge part of that is due to the internet and the freedom of information.
Previously, for example, it wasn't so easy to research the destruction of Jerusalem, so people kind of took the JWs word for it. Going down to the library and researching for hours on end just isn't practical for many. Nowadays, a simple Google search will tell you the answers in seconds.
Teeny
Hi Lady Libertine,
It's Teeny here. I just wanted to thank you for being so frank (or so Libertine).
I started off this website so that current Jehovah's Witnesses like you would find some solace away from the crankpots.
We're here for you and will always be.
I liked the fact that when you pointed out to the elders that there was no "overlapping" statement in Matthew, they went quiet. I too found that since my eyes were opened, I researched their cult to the point where I am sure I know more than any elder, especially here in Cyprus. Andrew feels the same way too.
For me, that's enough evidence to show they don't have an iota of truth in them.
Anyway, at the moment, I am working on a few new articles and should have one up by the end of the day.
Love,
Jaymes
Lady Libertine
I was horrified mere seconds after glancing this cover in my hands at my hall.
No one else thought about 9/11, or if they did, they didn't care enough to say.
I never thought they'd intentionally be so thoughtless and insensitive.
I already made a choice not to even hand this out.
They're losing control and a few seconds away from making a major mistake causing a dissent or something similar. Wacked out doctrine (this generation are people born 80 years apart!) causing more cognitive dissonance and questioning (down with independent thinking!), they've suddenly outlawed higher education again in the last few years, not to mention the scandal! Brave and amazing Candice Conti just proved true what I've been hearing about JW's child abuse policy.
I am convinced (with 2014 arriving shortly) that something is about to happen. Not sure if it's a major doctrine change or what but something is about to change.
They are losing control and they know it. Wonder what the next ten years will be like inside the Borg.
Not that I'll know personally, I'll be long gone by then! ;)
I'm also proud to say I'm but one of the 17-25 range that is waking up to TTATT and on their way out.
Another problem for the Organization, their youth is bleeding dry!
I love your blog and thank you for these insightful articles. :)
Andrew
Hi Lady Libertine,
Glad you enjoy JWB, and very glad to hear another person is breaking free from the Jehovah's Witness cult.
You said, "I am convinced (with 2014 arriving shortly) that something is about to happen." Can I ask why?









Sorry, the browser you are using is not currently supported. Disqus actively supports the following browsers:
FirefoxChromeInternet Explorer 8+Safari
This page is forcing your browser to use legacy mode, which is not compatible with Disqus. Please see our troubleshooting guide to get more information about this error.
We were unable to load Disqus. If you are a moderator please see our troubleshooting guide.
johnny
Good one..asked my mother to prove that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce she couldnt prove that and shes been in the truth for more than 20 yrs..instead she told me to humble myself and go back to the meetings.
Nico
That sounds just like something my mother would say & I'm sure it was said in an acidic "I'm better than you" tone. Because peer pressure is alright if THEY use it. lol
Lady Libertine
"Teeny: Okay. Do you know when Jerusalem was destroyed?
JW MiL: Err, no."
Yeah, that pretty much says it all.
Well, now I'm intrigued, Teeny.
That's just cruel, only sharing a little at a time. :)
I'm impressed you even got her to do some research, regardless of her reaction (which of course, I can't wait to hear).









Sorry, the browser you are using is not currently supported. Disqus actively supports the following browsers:
FirefoxChromeInternet Explorer 8+Safari
This page is forcing your browser to use legacy mode, which is not compatible with Disqus. Please see our troubleshooting guide to get more information about this error.
We were unable to load Disqus. If you are a moderator please see our troubleshooting guide.
rosemary osborn
Such a sad, joyless, rigid, controlling, judgemental cult. I spent 20 years giving my all-100 hours
a month and more as a pioneer-shunning higher education(new world coming back in 1960) now I will send anything to stop that higher up millionaires from ruining so many lives in the future. They have caused so much misery and more. I want to be a spoksman on any tv show or whatever.This is me Rosemary Osborn 301-520-5908
ResLight
Charles Taze Russell was never a member of the Jehovah's Witnesses organizaiton. There was no such "organization" in the days of Russell. The JW organization came into existence after Russell died. Russell, himself, preached against such central control of God's people by any man or group of men. Russell was a non-sectarian who believed that the true church is not found in any "outward organization", but that it exists amongst true Christians as found amongst the various professed Christians "denominations" and "sects".
Russell believed and taught that all consecrated Christians are God's mouthpieces. He was not, in the July 15, 1906 Watch Tower, proclaiming himself to be the sole "mouthpiece" for God.









Sorry, the browser you are using is not currently supported. Disqus actively supports the following browsers:
FirefoxChromeInternet Explorer 8+Safari
This page is forcing your browser to use legacy mode, which is not compatible with Disqus. Please see our troubleshooting guide to get more information about this error.
We were unable to load Disqus. If you are a moderator please see our troubleshooting guide.
Good2bFreed
I must say that after being a JW for almost fifteen years. I am seeing the world for the first time since my" unoffical"l fade in 2009 with out the warped world view of the Watchtower's lens. It is BEAUTIFUL!! Education is Great! Football games are Fabulous!! Sleeping in on Saturday is pretty cool too!! Not hearing one more insult hurled on non-JW's, at those SNOOZE FEST assemblies and conventions..STELLAR!!! Did you guys know that college actually improves your life?!?
My only struggle is finding a" spiritual" group I can call home. I have visited a few mainstream churches and I can't say that I have found the one I fit into. So I have recently visited a spriritual group that embraces all faiths... This is a bit of a challenge, since the group consists of some people that are openly lesbian/gay.
I know Jesus loves them too... It is just very different from the JW world where members "sweep" secrets into a vault.
I do agree with Andrew. My life is happier too since leaving the JW organization!!
Steve
Bravo, Andrew!
I got out 35 years ago when I was still young. I remember when I was leaving "Bethel" and going back home (never to set foot in a Kingdom Hall again) -- I was aglow with a feeling of love for the everyday people on the Greyhound bus: people whom I would've silently called "goats" in my JW delusion.
When I think about how those 35 years would've been spent as a JW robot in their fantasy-land and negative mind-set I am so relieved to have chosen reality and freedom. My life has had its ups and downs, but at least it was me at the helm; not some old farts in Brooklyn calling the shots with their perverted judgment.
I remember studying one of their oddly named books called "Life Everlasting in Freedom of the Sons of God". Well, I chose "Life in freedom from the sons of b*****s" and am Everlastingly grateful for that decision.
Andrew
Thanks Steve, glad you liked the article.
Cheryl
Cannot agree enough. I have been free for 16 years and get happier the longer I am out. I cant remember ever been happy in the cult. On Sunday I saw two JW sisters doing field service and one of them was dragging her little boy behind her. I was so upset on the little boys behalf. Its pure child abuse to drag your children out on field service. You cant possible be happy living that life.
Joel
I'm an atheist and former JW myself and couldn't agree more. Very well said.
Deranged Jdub
After 40 years I finally am free! The feeling of that yoke being gone is almost indescribable! I already have a better appreciation for people, and the value each person can bring to the table! The world might seem lousy to a junkie- but most of us just want to be human!
I died July 18, 1989 (baptism) and will be reborn on July 17th, 2012!! Uhm?? That's def. the universe speaking! :-) lmao
David Scott
Just wanted to comment about my take after leaving the jws first of all saying that there is no God but the God that jws talk about is just not true after leaving I have found God and Life God's name is Jesus Christ He is our mediator no other and just how fragile life really is and how short of time here on earth we really have I've also learned the true meaning of unconditional Love not just a front to bring more people into a doomsday cult. I don't know how many times the jws told me there is no life outside the watchtower this is just not true there is a happy life outside the borg and a happiness the jws can't ever realize while on the inside. I can tell you for sure happiness is just outside the jw doors and God and lots of happy people are waiting with arms wide open ...Love you all if I sound brash didn't mean to come off that way sorry :) :) :)
Andrew
David, thanks for your comment. I did specifically point out in my post that I do understand not everyone is atheist, and that's up to each person as to what they believe. I did drop that bit in because I so often hear people say rubbish such as 'atheists are evil' and wanted to point out that it just isn't true at all. You don't need god to be happy and good anymore than you need to be a Jehovah's Witness.
You say you believe in god and claim you know his name and his attributes when there is no way you could possibly know, in my opinion. You just... well, 'feel' it I suppose because there is no real evidence for god. At least that is where I stand - I think we should all demand evidence before accepting any claim, religious or not. What you believe is totally your call, we'll just disagree. The main thought of my post is more about how life after leaving the JWs is better, and I am glad you agree on that. We can have the god discussion another time if you like, or feel free to email me andrew AT jehovahswitnessblog.com - I am always up for friendly discussion.









Sorry, the browser you are using is not currently supported. Disqus actively supports the following browsers:
FirefoxChromeInternet Explorer 8+Safari
This page is forcing your browser to use legacy mode, which is not compatible with Disqus. Please see our troubleshooting guide to get more information about this error.
We were unable to load Disqus. If you are a moderator please see our troubleshooting guide.
Xteen Leela
Ok, This is Crazy. If we are following Jesus's footsteps, he got baptised when he was how old? 33? Does anyone know where he was in his lost years (not recorded inthe bible basically) Him being the son of God and being more enlightened, why did he have to wait till he was 30's? The GB/slave should have a rule of getting bapstised when you reach 33. So does this mean this kid and all other kids are better and smarter than Jesus. Anyway if the WT says people should wait till they are in their 30's I do not think they will have anyone left. Thats just my opinion. I was baptised in my teens, I can't even remember what year,,, as its not important anymore in my present life.
Flo
Ugh,sickening! I remember my mother used to make my sisters and I study with this really pushy sister from our hall. I was under SO much pressure to get baptized,and I was only 11 at the time. She even promised to reward us when we did. I don't remember exactly what she baited us with,but it was very tempting.
Now I'm 14,and I'm extremely happy I didn't give in. I've been an Atheist since I was 12,and I hate to imagine what shit would be like now if I had gotten baptized.And,I've set a much better goal for myself! I'm going to try convince my mother to leave the JWs. I hate to see her waste whats left of her life.
Steve
We all know that consistency is not a strong point of the WT. But back when we were bringing the (now old) "generation" doctrine to people's doors as "The Truth" we always said that the 1914 generation were people who could see the events "with eyes of understanding". We stated that someone would have to be at least 10 years old to fully comprehend what was going on (which meant that we were talking about people born in 1904 or earlier, making them 70+ years old in the mid 70's: perfect timing for the 1975 fiasco.)
The point being: if the Society uses 10 as the minimum age for understanding, they should never baptize someone younger than that. Or is this an unadvertised change in the WT regarding the "age of understanding"?
It's ironic that a governing body that constantly changes its mind demands its followers to commit (at baptism) to never changing theirs (at least as regards their unwavering trust in the WT as "God's organization".)
Jason
@ Chelsea - Anyone who thinks a 7 year old is qualified to make a decision based on that will affect the rest their life is a fool. If a person isn't old enough to dedicate their life to another person (spousal relationship), they certainly should not be dedicating their life to a corporation or the pretend god they claim to follow.
Chelsea
He has the right to make his own decisions! They discuss and ask him questions, and the elders feel he is qualified! SO SHUT UP!
Andrew
@Chelsea - You miss the point. A 7 year old is incapable of making that decision. It even goes against your own doctrine of not having baby baptisms because they can't understand.
craig
So, Andrew, how old were you when you were baptised?
Andrew
I was 13, and even then I was far too young to know what I was really getting myself into. Why?
Lady Libertine
This makes me sick. I got baptized at 17 years old. I'm 20 now and am an entirely different person then I once was. I am also fully aware of the organization and its ins and outs more so than I ever was growing up in it. And you know, it's funny, remember how I said I was totally different at 17 then now at 20? In five years, I'll probably be saying the same thing. Because people grow and change as they get older. You think one thing as a teenager, another as a young adult, and you're coming into yourself around 25 to 30 years old. Even the medical community has figured our brains aren't completely developed till at least 25!
Now, to use one of the Society's favorite illustrations; if I can say, that at 17 years old, I was ill equipped to make the choice I did, how much less so is a second-grader?!
Not to mention, they use their literature to make young teens feel guilty if they haven't been dunked yet. I know, it worked on me!
R.C.
Most kids at 7 aren't even allowed to choose what cloths their parents buy for them but this girl (among many) is allowed to decide to dedicate her life to God insofar as a 7year old can understand such a thing. She will be expected to live up to that dedication as she grows up or face punishment. Don't JW's claim to be "footstep followers " Jesus who was baptized in his 30's ? How do they explain this one ?
Dillen
Why did that poor kid get baptized so young when he probably doesn't even know how much responsibility an adult actually has? This is very sickening to hear indeed because the child will grow up thinking why is his world suddenly getting smaller by the minuet and why does everything have to be based on what Satan wants or what he'll do to you if you don't "set things straight"? Child baptism is wrong because I bet his parents forced me into reading a really thick JW book he wasn't supposed to understand until he got to ten! Thank God my JW sister isn't going to have any children...she will put one or more them through hell! :)
rosemary osborn
Beyond sad-beyond pathetic.I feel such pity for the little ones-sitting for hours like robots to
listen to adult material-being beaten in the rest rooms if not behaving as robots. My heart goes out to them. May they find their way when the time comes.
Lacy
It really is appalling. A 7 year old isn't allowed to decide his own bedtime or what he wants for supper because a 7 year old isn't qualified to make those choices properly. Yet the elders think he is mature enough to make a binding legal contract that will affect the rest of his life??? The kid would have had to have gone through the question sessions we all had to. At 7 years old he has an accurate comprehension of what fornication, adultery, bestiality, polygamy, homosexuality, betle nut, drugs, blood transfusions, the WTO, the new system, God, and even death are? Sure he may know the words and possibly simple meanings of them. But to really know at that age what they all involve, why some are forbidden, and the complexities of the others? No way.
He's never had to face temptation to know what he is or is not capable of. He doesn't understand that he is now obligated to act as a secret police against all his friends and family for the rest of his life or risk facing disfellowshipping himself. He does not understand the true consequences of what happens if he makes a mistake or if he changes his mind. All he knows of consequences are short time-outs in his room and not getting desserts. This month, the Madagascar movie is the center of his world and the best thing ever. In a few months, Madagascar will be boring and the next Monsters, Inc movie will be the center of his world and the best thing ever. However, people expect him to spend the next 80 years believing Jehovah is the creator of his world and the JWs are the best religion ever? Really?
abden
When I left in 98 there was a nine year old girl in my congregation and I remember how proud her dumb as a bag of hammers mom was when she got baptized. She was disfellowshipped by the time she turned fifteen.
Frank
All I can say is "Oh Brother". They have repeatedly condemned all other churches for baptizing infants a month or two after their birth. Yet, they are baptizing kids who are 7 years of age. This just shows how hypocritical they really are. A 7 year old child is still considered an infant and/or preschooler by law and again, baptizing a 7 year old is no different from baptizing a baby a month or two after their birth and again, a 7 year old is as much an infant as a 7 year old child.
Again, this just shows you how hypocritical the JW's really are. They put other churches down for baptizing babies, but yet they baptize a 7 year old, which is not any different from what most churches do. Then again, it wouldn't surprise me if the boys parents forced and pushed him into being baptized. If they did, it is typical of the JW's to do that.










Sorry, the browser you are using is not currently supported. Disqus actively supports the following browsers:
FirefoxChromeInternet Explorer 8+Safari
This page is forcing your browser to use legacy mode, which is not compatible with Disqus. Please see our troubleshooting guide to get more information about this error.
We were unable to load Disqus. If you are a moderator please see our troubleshooting guide.
Deranged jdub
I've lived in NH, MA, NY, and GA. Typically I have almost always heard the name of God pronounced "Jehover" from people in the New England area, especially Boston.
That "Randy" bit had me rolling! I will be sharing that snippet with everyone!
This years Drama sucked chocolate salty balls.. But what do I care- I'm out!
Teeny
I've been randy, but I've never been a Randy...
Glad you liked it mate.
Spread the JWB word far and wide.
Warm regards,
Jaymes
Lacy
I do believe you have had the pleasure of listening to a deeply Southern American accent. I am from Pennsylvania so it was quite disconcerting for me to move to South Carolina as a 10 year old and hear people replacing "ah" sounds with "r" sounds. I made sure to never adopt a Southern accent. I'm very sorry you had to listen to that. Try years of it.
I used to like the dramas as a kid. I got to sit back and relax, it was entertaining, and I didn't have to take notes during that portion. But then you start to notice that they are the same exact thing every year. No one has any creativity. And like you, the over-the-top gestures began to really annoy me. Definitely not as entertaining as Sparlock!
By the way, good choice with Bar Harbor! I've been there and to Acadia and it is a lovely place.
yathink
Cruel from malcontents








Sorry, the browser you are using is not currently supported. Disqus actively supports the following browsers:
FirefoxChromeInternet Explorer 8+Safari
This page is forcing your browser to use legacy mode, which is not compatible with Disqus. Please see our troubleshooting guide to get more information about this error.
We were unable to load Disqus. If you are a moderator please see our troubleshooting guide.
Michael Steele
I like this site. I see a good mix of current jw's and non-jw's which makes for healthy debate. I am a person who was a "born in" 3rd generation witness. I was VERY Gung Ho in the organization. I would like to speak to you current JW's from a position of experience. The JW's are just like every other religion, made up of human beings that have their own positive/negative attributes. Some would argue the JW's are worse than other religions because of their positions on Shunning and Blood transfusions which needlessly causes the death of thousands upon thousands. I say "needlessly" because when you look at the history of the JW's position on blood transfusions it has changed dramatically over the decades. Changing positions on important doctrines brings me to "new light". Some of you younger JW's like the earnest hearted 13 yr old girl I saw posting on here, may not be aware of this but JW's have had MAJOR doctrinal changes over the years. If you love yourself and are willing to be honest with yourself, do a simple google search on doctrinal changes. A good place to start would be the "1914 generation". ANYONE who's been associated with the JW's for the last 80+ years knows darn well that at every assembly, every meeting, every bookstudy, and in countless watchtower/awake's through out the decades, we were told that without a doubt, it was Gods guarantee that "this generation (the generation alive in the year 1914) would NOT pass away until this system of things had been wiped away at armageddon. " Don't believe me? Google it. The internet is chock-full of sites using ACTUAL WATCHTOWERS and JW literature to prove it. You will see that the JW Organization sliced and diced the meaning of "generation" to get every last year they could out of that prediction until it became so painfully obvious that they were wrong (because that generation is DEAD), the society had to finally give it up and create some "new light" on the subject.
I'm not surprised the Governing Body held onto the "1914" teaching for as long as they did. It was a POWERFUL revenue and fear generator. I knew many witnesses who did not dare question the society or skip a meeting or donation box because they reasoned that the "1914" generation was almost all died off so Armaggedon must be right around the corner. Here is my basic question to you current JW's. If new-light is truly an increase in understanding of a current belief then why does it often contradict or completely negate the old-light? Shouldn't the new-light just build upon the foundation of the old-light and not completely wipe it out or alter the old-light to where it is no longer recognizable? How did God get his light so mixed up? How could God have been wrong about so many predictions and understandings that JW's held to be the gospel truth at the time.
Having said that my "brothers and sisters" I will leave you with this...Deuteronomy 18:22 "If the prophet speaks in the LORD's name but his prediction does not happen or come true, you will know that the LORD did not give that message. That prophet has spoken without my authority and need not be feared.
yathink
Give me a break.. At least get your facts straight... Even the USA military has seen the value of bloodless surgery and stated that transfusion is the treatment of last resort.. thousands are not dying from not taking blood. Your lack of current information is an indication of this sites sole purpose... misinformation!
smmcroberts
yathink,
What facts were not "straight"? Do you know the number of Witnesses who have died due to refusing blood transfusions? If so, please tell us that number and the source of your information. If not, then you don't know whether it has been thousands or not. We can only take an educated guess based on the number of people in the total population who will need a transfusion at some point in their lives. According to the Red Cross that is 97%, and a certain portion of those would die without a transfusion. Being that there are 7 million people who follow the WT's blood policy, thousands would be a conservative estimate.
Yes, bloodless surgery is great WHEN it's available. How does that excuse the deaths that have resulted due to WT policy prior to the invention of bloodless surgery, or when it's not available [e.g. in third-world countries] or when a person is hemorrhaging from causes other than surgery? It can't, and it doesn't.
If you want to blame someone for "misinformation" then blame the Watchtower for stating that whole blood and platelet transfusions are against God's law, and for painting a FALSE picture of this process as being medically dangerous when the statistics show that it is one of the safest of all medical procedures.
I donate platelets. Platelets save lives, and there is no substitute for them. What do you do to save life? Oh, I forgot: that's against your religion!
kimbal
And in support of Michael Steel -
I agree with you 100% - The bible says in Daniel 12 that "the true knowledge would become abundant in the time of the end".
Today we have the internet and many other resources available, explaining history and the facts of the past - as well as - the Watchtower's history.
Living in denial of this abundant true knowledge - especially of facts which clash with Watchtower doctrine [ such as a complete copy of VAT 4956 located in the British Museum which quotes the missing segments of the Babylonian King-list dates, supporting 587 BCE instead of 607 BCE, as to when Jerusalem fell - of which 607 as well know was latter used to support the AD 1914 teaching and the pouring of holy spirit on the Anointed in 1919 AD ] - such ignorance of historical facts, tantamounts to living, not the truth - but LIVING A LIE - some thing my conscience won't allow.
Every JW living today is baptised because they want to save their skin at Armageddon, so they are serving their god out of "fear of death" and disapproval.
Though they deny this verbally, they state it's because "they love God and his promises".
To love someone means you have a relationship with that person on some level. Yet their relationship with Jehovah is a conditional one-sided binding - based on reward, fear and personal selfishness on the part of the witness wanting salvation.
As Satan declared to Jehovah in Job 2 "Is is for nothing that man serves god ?" - and then Satan declared "Skin in behalf of skin, everything a man has he will give in behalf of his soul".
Man will serve a god for what he wants, and especially HIS SOUL.
Ironically Jws today, are actually by their 24/7 faithfulness to their god proving Satan's words in Job to be correct and Jehovah the great liar - simply by staying faithful until the end.
Yet again ironically, they point the finger at the Satan and claim he does the same thing.
To me it's the pot calling the kettle black !
Catherine
I think they will cut down convention days because they are 1. Running out of propanda 2. Not too many elders are left to organise events 3. That's besides contributions drying up from 1st world countries where the money and internet to do research on them is, which is not offset by the poorer, less internet access 3rd world or developing countries. 5. They have to save money by selling kingdom halls, closing Bethels in Ireland, New Zealand n Scandanavia n sell WT Brooklyn buildings to pay all the child sexual abuse cases (see Candace Conti vs JWs $28 million jury punitive n compensatory award in California-no gag order) when the Society itself is held liable as a legal entity for their secret policy of protecting paedophile members n elders in the congregation (last count in 2002 was 23 720). So do you JW parents know who you are leaving your children alone with? You should be afraid, very afraid. Trust nobody!
dontbeahater
This site's really dumb, if you hate Jehovah's Witnesses, good for you, go play golf or something instead of blogging about your hatred.
PS: OUT OF 41,000 denominations of 'Christianity' how many of them have the right to use gods name in their title? If the Catholic Church decided to try and change it's name to the Catholic Church of Jehovah, do you really think Jehovah would let them? Bahahahahhahaa. .. . . . .
There's a reason why there's only one organisation in the world using his name in their title people. It's the only organisation that he will let use his name in their title.
Steve
Hi DontBeAHater,
No one I know of is "blogging about hatred." People can criticize the Watchtower while loving (and trying to save) those held in that organization's clutches. In fact, that's the usual motivation.
If you really think that criticizing a religion is a sign of hatred, then how do you explain the tons of ink the Watchtower has expended in criticizing all other religions (especially since your organization has claimed to have "abolished hatred"?)
In answer to your question about using the name Jehovah as a title: there's a Lutheran church in the city where I live called "Jehovah Lutheran Church." http://www.jehovahlutheran.org... It seems that your god let them get away with this. Someone once started a group entitled "Jehovah's Atheists" -- they got away with this as well, without a single thunderbolt hurled from the heavens.
The Catholics don't bandy about the "divine name" in the ubiquitous manner of the Witnesses out of respect for what they consider sacred. Others don't use it because they know it's a meaningless mistranslation. To be consistent, the Witnesses shouldn't use it either due to its Catholic origin (having been invented by a Catholic monk in the middle ages). As we all know, the Watchtower identifies "Christendom" with Babylon the Great Empire of False Religion. So why would they use the Catholic-invented name for god?
Besides, you're not even witnesses to what that scripture says you're supposed to be witnesses of: that no god was formed after YHWH (Is. 43:10). As you know, WT theology holds that Jesus--as "the Word"--was "a god" formed after YHWH.
So using "Jehovah" in your title is hardly something to be proud of. In fact, to use your word, I'd call it just plain "dumb."
Nathan Halverson
*cough*
https://www.facebook.com/cccje...
https://www.facebook.com/Jehov...
http://www.yelp.com/biz/jehova...
You were saying?
Phillip Ramirez
Y'know what, kids...? If you think it's three days of "boredom", stay home then. Give your seats up to people who want to be there, not slackers who hate Jehovah and all he stands for.
shannon
Please take my seat too. You will have to sit with my judgmental mother and self righteous sister who think I am bad association. I am at my mothers house right now cleaning, washing floors, preparing her dinner for tonight and even packed her lunch for the convention. I guess I'm good enough to do that. I help my mom out of love and am told I'm mentally diseased???
smmcroberts
Great idea, Phil! You can have my seat.
Ross
Well im excited and ready for tommorows 2013 convention! With new information. Looks like your theorys hold up about as much water as a cooking strainer!
Steve
Hi Ross,
I have a couple of questions for you:
1. What did you do to get ready for the convention? I thought of some possibilities:
a) Practice sleeping with your eyes open.
b) Buy mirrored-sunglasses and one of those no-snore nose strips.
c) Pack one of those traveler’s' neck-pillows to keep your head from flopping over.
d) Rig a 2x4 to your belt with a strap around your chest to keep you propped upright in your chair (an alternative I recommend is to use Command Adhesive Velcro strips attached to the back of your chair and the back of your suit coat. The only disadvantage to this method is that you must be careful not to back into another Witness using the same trick, or you can get embarrassingly stuck together).
e) Find the tiniest, most inconspicuous ear-buds available (preferably wireless), and cut a square section out of the pages of your NWT to hide your MP3 player.
f) Put your brain on ice.
2. What "theories" are you referring to? This article is about a "rumor," and what it might mean "if" it were true. No theories were broached. Contrast this language with the Watchtower's theory of 1925 being a "certainty" regarding the resurrection of the "ancient worthies," all the while claiming to be "God's prophet on Earth." Can you spot the difference? Anyone who is not in a brainwashing cult can.
I hope they DO come up with some "new information" similar to the 1925 information that the brothers and sisters gullibly drank in back in the twenties. Maybe it will be another bombshell like the 1975 announcement, and Witnesses can sell their homes and quit their jobs again! Or yet another new interpretation of "the generation;" they haven't come up with a new one in a few months now, and the current one is the most far-fetched of them all so far, so we're really ready for some "new light" on that.
I'm excited too; I need a good laugh!
But, seriously: I hope the "new information" will be that they've finally come to their senses on the blood issue, the two-witness rule, and shunning. Sadly, it's more likely, given their track record, that the new information will just be something stupid like flip-flopping yet again on whether rape victims who neglect to scream should be disfellowshipped. {sigh}
Here's my true story of genuine pre-convention excitement. I remember, back in the day, a brother telling me that he hoped the new information would be the outlawing of coffee. When I asked him why, he said: "Because I drink too much coffee."
If only it didn't matter WHAT they said, so we could take charge of our own lives, doing what is right and using our inherent sense of empathy, instead of waiting on them for "new light" to tell us what to do. Wait... that IS the case!!!
We are all, after all, human beings with certain inalienable rights and personal responsibilities, no matter what labels we may have foolishly slapped onto our foreheads.
Teeny
Bloody hilarious!
Your post is going up tonight. That's another fascinating read!
Teeny
Ross, your levels of buffoonery astound me. Read the article before commenting. Oh wait, you're a brainwashed, brain dead cretin...
John Lockwood
I love the discussion boards here. It continues to amaze me, how little active JW"s read for understanding. Over and over again, there are comments expressing some kind of support for the Org, followed by condemnation of the most horrible sort, against anyone who would dare question the Org. Mind you, most of these commenters profess to believe in their version of god, but go full bore against anyone who speaks out against their Org. Not god. Most of the articles and comments by non-JW"s, point out the absolute fallacy of the information spewed by the Org. Most are not critical of the bible, but in fact, unlike the Org. use it profusely to back up their points. But the JW"s can't or choose not to see that. They see it as an attack on their god. It's not!! It is a pointed, factual, accurate picture of the Org. That is a true representation of "false religion." Religion as a whole is ridiculous. You either believe in god or you do not. You don't need a set of man-made rules, that change continually, and that you are expected to follow and indoctrinate others with, to live. And who in their right mind would worship a god or an organization, under the threat of death? Crazy people? Maybe.
Teddie Jean Briggs
still a 3 day in canada
Sheila
Wow I'm pretty sure you're heart would be as cold as ice if I could see it in the abyss that it's in. Do you not have any respect at all? I mean really come on...
Darren
You show me anyway inthe bible where the early church christians baptized in the formulas father son and Holy Spirit.....non what so ever.
The Trinity was formalated by some glown who ditch that sect and started another sect, and the catholic church moved with an iron fist to choose the latter if you didnt accept there mode of salvation at the time after 325 nicean council, off to the gallows with you mate. they totally hated the christians of the time and the huge following they had, people getting saved and all that, so they stuck with the triune formula that you have today in 2013, to take away the true revelation of Baptism in Jesus Name, theres power in that name of JESUS as quoted every eye shall see, every knee shall bow at the name of Jesus......oh and the guy who founded the trinity is tertullian considered to the father of the trinity..look it up, father son and holy spirit is not true foundation
Steve
Darren,
I already DID show you: MT 28:19.
Are you saying that the early Christians didn't follow Jesus' command, or are you saying that MT 28:19 was added later by the Catholic Church?
The JWs accept MT 28:19 [the full verse IS quoted later in that article I referenced: I hadn't noticed that at first] but they still deny the trinity [how they do this is also demonstrated in that article.]
I don't need to look up Tertullian; I'm very familiar with the history and arguments of the trinitarian controversy. I think it will rage as long as there are fundamentalists, because the Bible both supports and denies it, in its ever-contradictory manner. (On this, please see chapter 5 of my book Falling in Truth: http://smmcroberts.net/religio...
Jesus was a fairly common name back in the day. Was there really power in that name? When Hannah called her little boy Jesus home for supper did all the other kids bow down as he passed? If you claim that there is power in that name, please provide evidence for your statement. I'll bet that if I stood on the corner and yelled the name "Jesus" I'd get a lot of strange looks, but very few bended knees.
In order to meet the challenges of the real world with rationality, humankind desperately needs to pull itself out of the quagmire of superstitious beliefs in -- and futile hostile debates over -- magical words, formulas, and rituals. Jesus and/or Jehovah won't save us: we need to roll up our sleeves and save ourselves. That will require clear thinking and compassion, not divisive never-ending arguments about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin, or what magical formula is the correct one to use in the magical ritual of baptism.
Darren
What do JWS know about water baptism??.... true baptisem is in the Name of Jesus Christ for the remisson of sin found inthe book of Acts 2:38 just like the apostles did, not like nicean council they changed the oringinal to the father, son and Holy spirit the trinity
Steve
Hi Darren,
I hadn't realized this before, but, as with most things, the Bible contradicts itself on just what magic formula is supposed to be used during the ritual. You pointed out one formula in Acts, but the other predates the Nicean council: it is found at Matthew 28:19, where Jesus reputedly commanded: "Go therefore and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit." (NWT) Revealingly, the Watchtower doesn't quote the last part of that verse on their site regarding baptism, placing a period after "baptizing them," which I think is a case of misquoting their own translation: http://www.jw.org/en/publicati...
But I don't think the JWs use either formula. I think that they just ask the questions shown in Teeny's post on baptism: http://www.jehovahswitnessblog.... I'm not sure if the baptizing brother says anything at all when he dunks his victim under the water. (Being under water at the time, I wouldn't have heard what he said anyway.) Does anyone else know?
michelle
All I have to say is Jesus was persecuted in his last days too.
Steve
Hi Michelle,
I wouldn't go so far as saying that anyone is "persecuting" Teeny here for his post (even though he's been called a liar and "dumb" and threatened with murder by someone's god.)
For the most part it's just a good healthy discussion. And we all know that the Watchtower encourages us to examine our religion, right? So, let's continue the examination without either "side" being silly enough to holler "Persecution!"
Ste Ríkhardsson
J-Dubs have got it really easy these days. When I was a child Conventions lasted 5 days. Now they're 3 days and they don't even have to go to the Book Group on Thursday evenings anymore.
True Christian
The cornerstone of the Jw faith is laid on quick sand!
John
False hope
chris
3 day conventions heck I would be happy to do that when I was a kid they were 5 days long. It was the worst boredom you've ever experienced.
Darren
is Jehovah witness belief system built on a strong foundation or on sand??
Darren
i would agree, up inthe in outer- space.
Teeny
I think you'll find it's up in the air...
Isabella
Andrew, Of course God will destroy anyone not listening to him and obeying him. It is not cruel to destroy people who do not want to listen and obey him. He is the creator and as such he deserves the praise from all humans. We are the ones that make a choice to serve him or not. If we don't serve him we are saying that we think he does not have the right to rule over mankind.
Andrew
Um, yes it is cruel. No, he doesn't deserve praise - anyone demanding it with threat of death is automatically undeserving. I do not recognize anyone's right to rule over me. I am not a slave. I had no choice in being 'created' so it is unfair to be forced into choosing servility or death in the first place.
Maria
Oh my gosh Andrew! I have never heard it put this way. "I had no choice in being 'created' so it is unfair to be forced into choosing servility or death..." WOW. That is such an awesome statement. I agree wholeheartedly. :)
Denise
TIME WILL TELL if the promise of a cleansed earth will take place. Also, Jehovah doesn't force anyone to do anything that they do not want to do. With that being said if YOU chose to not want to be nor associate with JW than your personal choice, let others make theirs. Also what you are stating is opinion, no evidence or proof to back it up. Those are your personal feelings.
Teeny
"Promise of a cleansed earth".... Please read your comment back to yourself and then let me know if what you said sounds at all normal.
By "cleansed earth", you're talking about the killing of over 7 billion human beings. That includes babies. Think!
With regards to me using my own opinions, I can see that you've not really read any articles on here. I openly display my sources, unlike the Watchtower.
You've made a claim, back it up. Ball's in your court.
Regards,
Jaymes
john smith
This is a lie,there are 3-day conventions scheduled for this year.It says so on JW.ORG,the OFFICIAL website of Jehovah's Witnesses,not some sad apostate site like this.Everyone,don't listen to this guy.
Andrew
"Rumours are rife," "Nothing’s concrete at the moment" - no one said there weren't going to be 3 day conventions, you stupid moron. Selective reading, I see. Typical of the Jehovah's Witnesses...
J Brown
That isn't true.We have the dates for most 2013 conventions on jw.org and they are all scheduled as 3 day conventions.Stop spreading rumours and setting up sites like this because the Governing Body knows you are doing this and they will continue to encourage the brothers to beware of apostate sites or independant sites owned by brothers who push ahead of Jehovah's arrangement.I shall leave it at that.
Andrew
Hi J Brown, or John Smith, or whatever your name is, you charlatan. See, we administrators see the IP addresses of commenters and you two people are one and the same moron. Thank you for playing. You lose. Game over. Moron.
Truth Withstands Any Scrutiny
LOL! I am enjoying all the comments and articles but this one really
made me laugh out loud. J Brown and John Smith are one and the same
person ... point to Andrew and I think this is where he can say "I shall
leave it at THAT". love it!
Darren
Your 3 day Conference is all head knowlge puffed up, and no heart knowlage...i think thats how you spell it, but you get the drift.
Darren
These national conventions are dry and boring there interpretation of the word of God is warped and are not rooted and grounded, just like there belief system, go to a real life church,worship him in spirit and liberty try loging into Bishop td jakes soul preaching straight up the gut no mucking around. or even Pentecostal Evangelist Lee stone king, this Man you need to watch on Youtube speaking about the triune Gods mesmorising, thats what you call preaching, you definitly wont find that in a Jehovah witness meeting or at the Convention in New Zealand thats going on at the moment.
Andrew
Oh so JWs are wrong, but your religion, with equal problems and lack of evidence, is right. Convenient.
Darren
yu JWs too much head knowledge and No heart, too much surface knowledge thats all it is, you guys are missing that joy of the lord your lives, and what the heck is this flippin active force thing you fallas replaced with holy spirit your leaders onthe day of judgement are gonna get your butts kick matety you can bank on that.
kimbal
Hey Andrew -
I know you believe you have the truth, but using a couple of smaller examples here should illustrate my point ; -
The use of the word AMEN at the end of a prayer is of pagan origin - yet the bible uses it. AMEN was the pre-deluvian mediator before God and Man who was called Ammun, later known in Egypt as Ammon RA ( note spelling changes ). So every time you ask your god to help you, you are ending your prayer with the word AMEN which is giving recognition to this predeluvian mediator Ammun-Ra who has been ousted form heaven. Ammun was the precursor to Christ before the flood, but left the heavenly abode and was later replaced by Christ. The current understanding of "so be it" or "so must it be" is a much later modern distortion of the word.
So if you want to be technical, as the Jw's so often are - even the book of Revelation supports and encourages the use of the word which is a pre-christian pagan teaching. Hence the whole book should be removed from the biblical cannon if you want to be a true purist.
Jws only accept the biblical cannon that Christendom approves of ( ie the Popes of pagan Rome ) - hence they deny the facts in the apocryphal books which are quoted in the bible books they currently use. So that alone tells one they don't have the complete truth under one book cover,
Another point is the use of Wedding rings, they too are also of pagan origin - and yet most JW's wear them and claim to be Christian. when they can't deal with something they say "its a conscience thing" - which is a cop-out for "we don't have all of the truth and can't answer that because the bible is silent on the matter".
I don't feel in my heart, in all reasonableness that I can be associated with any organization claiming to have the truth yet promotes pagan teachings like these or does not have a complete bible.
Those few points alone are a very big stumbling block to me, accepting your organisation as having the truth - and hence your Faithful and Discreet Slave, in line with Jesus words about stumbling the sheep, should have a mill-stone cast about their necks be thrown into the sea,
What's more after teaching these pagan ideas, the FDSC during the 1980s, started to "impute themselves with perfection in advance" as taught in the publications, more-or-less making themselves infallible like the Clergy.
Again another stumbling block.
I was born in the Jw's and left after 30 years. I was also one of Australia's biggest Watchtower book collectors during the 1980's.
Since leaving , the Jws are not all that different in some cases to the Catholic Church. Just relabelled in my opinion.
It's unfortunate the slave class now have a lot of blood of their heads to answer for.
Sally
You could also go to http://www.jwfacts.com
Anthony
to andrew and many others who think JW religion is bull why is that? And please do not yell let us talk and reason, thank you.
kimbal
The answer is simple - Jehovah does not exist and you don't have the truth - your all liars. As for Jehovah not existing - well if you start me on that one you will leave the organization. There's way more evidence that there is a devil active than a loving God.
Andrew
Read some of our blog posts and find out...











Sorry, the browser you are using is not currently supported. Disqus actively supports the following browsers:
FirefoxChromeInternet Explorer 8+Safari
This page is forcing your browser to use legacy mode, which is not compatible with Disqus. Please see our troubleshooting guide to get more information about this error.
We were unable to load Disqus. If you are a moderator please see our troubleshooting guide.
Jehovah Witness
Just imagine, these will be the future leaders of Kingdom Hall... Maybe they'll grow up one day...
sergio
Have a nephew that is JW. Recent they went on a trip to N.Y. That's what he told us. But we found out. That's were the family send the kids, like the book said, to meet with the old white guys. I can belive that they have the time and money to send there kids to N.Y. But no time to volunteer, or help out with the homes. I have not seen ANY JW help out any one during the holidays.
Dyllen
Welcome to the 18th Century -- goals are personal or they're supposed to mean nothing to you! XD
Sunny Martin
I wish to complain on behalf of all women who are obese, sweaty, 50 years old with a beard...lol
Bonnie
Thus proving, once again, that these so called comments are not, as they imply, from young people, but made up by a bunch of old white gray-haired pompous asses in New York. It would be funny, if it wasn't so sad how they ruin families and the lives of so many people. F-tarded Twatwaffles! Every one of 'em!
Jacqui
The best read I've had in ages, it made me giggle out loud. Now, if only I was single, 50 and still a witness, I would be able to pick lots of the left out bachelors, just hope they've had a bath and their mums won't mind. But not sure I could hold their hand, at least not before an engagement ring.
Steve
"Boys"? "Girls"? Some in their twenties? Here it is considered demeaning to call someone a boy or a girl when they are past puberty.
I never was able to date a JW in my four years of delusion. Maybe it was that love letter I sent which said something like "I'd like to marry you, which means we should 'date', as it were." It could be that this was just too weird for even a JW "girl". If only I'd had the Teenymeister's "pickup lines" back then! But wait--that means I might have married a JW!
Never mind.
Teeny
Bloody brilliant Andrew!
I've been married twice to two different Jehovah's Witness Sisters and have had a combined 5 dates between both wives.
Thank you very much....try the veal and don't forget to tip your waitress.
Regards,
Teenymeister









Sorry, the browser you are using is not currently supported. Disqus actively supports the following browsers:
FirefoxChromeInternet Explorer 8+Safari
This page is forcing your browser to use legacy mode, which is not compatible with Disqus. Please see our troubleshooting guide to get more information about this error.
We were unable to load Disqus. If you are a moderator please see our troubleshooting guide.
Carlos Geijo
Very easy, a lot of this experiencies about being chocked while sleeping by a force can be easily explained by sleep paralysis and their associated hypnagogic hallucinations. These hallucinations are usually "colored" by the belief system of the person that experiences them.
Becky
When I was very little, my aunt went through a period of time when she was having nightmares. Of course, nightmares were caused by demons (couldn't have anything to do with the abusive husband she was divorcing). So the family wracked their brains for anything that had been brought into the house recently. First they suspected a coat, so they left the coat outside overnight, and still the nightmares continued. Then they suspected a doll, given to her by our "demonic" neighbor (I believe her doctor diagnosed her with schizophrenia, but that's obviously because doctors do not understand about demons, poor uneducated fools). The story goes, my parents tried to burn the doll, but it wouldn't burn (again, this is due to demonic possession, not flame retardant fabric), so my step-dad had to tear it apart and throw it away. Demons can resist fire, but my step-dad is still stronger than they are, obviously.
I don't know if my aunt's nightmares ever went away. I think my nightmares may have started about that time....
Nico
There was a story that went around IL congregations to keep us from dating & *gasp* possibly marrying into "the World".
I girl dated a Worldy Guy, nice guy, good job, she fell in love, & even managed to carry on a chaste courtship! Good for her right? Doo doo doo. On her wedding nights she notices a rocking chair in their bedroom rocking all by itself. At first she thinks the floor is uneven, then she checks for a draft, etc. Finally she asks if her new husband has noticed it & Doo doo doo He says it's his dead mother's ghost! Now she has to live with that!!!
Wish I had a picture of the other young girls faces when we were told this. I never did fit in & I'm sure on that night my expression of "that's BS" didn't help any.
smmcroberts
Nico,
That's a strange story for Witnesses to believe since they don't believe in ghosts.
The existence of ghosts would require a soul or spirit to survive death. It's diametrically opposed to Witness dogma. Yet such stories are evidently told and believed.
I guess they've had so much practice in holding contradictory thoughts in their heads that they don't experience any cognitive dissonance.
Lacy
The pioneer sister who studied with me when I was 10 told me that there was once a KISS concert that some JWs went to. The band tried to call upon the demons and it wasn't working. They announced from the stage that if there were any JWs in the crowd, could they please leave as they were hindering the performance. So the JWs left and they concert apparently went on as planned after that. I'm so very sure that story is 100% accurate. (There needs to be a sarcasm font!)
Chippy
I heard this same story, except with Earth, Wind amd Fire. Plus a little more: from then in, Earth Wind and Fire would ask any JWs to leave before they began their performance.
The lamb
I've heard the same story with Chris de Burgh...
Amanda
I heard the story but with the 90s band L7. Hahahaha Earth Wind and Fire!
Andres Torres
I was once told a story about demonized WTS literature. No kidding! A brother told me that a friend of his had gotten some old literature second hand and put it in his trunk. While he was driving the literature evidently was flying around and banging on the walls of the trunk. So he pulls over and burns the literature. I've probably heard a dozen of these kinds of stories. Thankfully the society recently asked JWs to stop spreading them, saying that they shouldn't concern themselves with the Demons or exaggerate their powers. I think they finally realized that this was a problem.
John
Yes Steve one of those old portable plastic brown made piano organs. It is kind of ironic considering my father was a acomplished musician and his brother actually played his whole life for the new york philormonic. my uncle also conducted some of the sessions for the wto in bethel. also my x wife had a uncle by the name of Wilfred Guch, im sure you know the name. or how about Ernest Beaver? It was amazing to read a letter Wilfred wrote that made one of Ray Franz's book's. I do remember some conversations with the man about policies the WTS would hold fast to and he wasn't happy about. The sad part is a lot of these folks start out their life with good intentions to help others but its the societys rules they have to adhere to that sucks the good out of them. I also had cousins who were involved that were about 15yrs older then me and would relate rediculous storys about supposed Demon activity. They told me they were going door to door one day and a lady gave them some strawberries to eat and while they were driving in the car the inside tempeture would go from hot to cold by itself and they felt like someone was in the back seat with them. lol I think those two brothers who were pranksters were into Drama and story telling. Oh yea they said it was the Strawberries because when they said when they threw them out the window it stopped. Well my question today to them would be then why did what you already ate not still effect the spirit zone in your car lol. Perhaps my cousins 1965 Pontiac Gto's automatic climate control system was the cause of it all lol Just unbelievable stuff that rolled out of those guy's. You just gotta chuckle in the end. I know one thing and thats im not afraid of the dark or being destroyed by fire. I have to say since not being associated with that cult i have not heard of any storys of such things from anyone. Perhaps it's just a way of them trying to use scare tactics yet once again to get you to join their ranks. Surely Funny stuff
John
while its true that the bible says "everyone that calls on the name of jehovah will be saved" it certainly is out of context in these contrived instance's. our family got involved with the jw''s when i was around 10 yrs old. i remember my Dad telling me to take a organ he was given by a friend out back and destroy it with a sledge hammer because he felt it was demonized after feeling strange from playing it. How ridiculous to 1) have me at the tender impressionable age of 10 be exposed to this type of thinking and 2) do this by myself! You talk about being scared to death of refusing to do it or let alone being traumatized by this thinking. Sometimes as a fifty something adult i think my parents were just plain stupid to buy into this cults pitch.
Steve
An organ? Maybe your Dad was feeling good connecting with the music: that certainly would've been a "strange feeling" for a Witness to experience. No wonder he panicked!
I was just thinking: Isn't it funny how no one in the OT was ever "demon-possessed"? Then suddenly in the NT it's a common occurrence. What were the demons doing all that time before Jesus came around to drive them out?
Another interesting thought: the Bible never relates that an inanimate object was ever demon-possessed. It was always an animal (human or non-human). So where do the JWs get their precedent for believing smurfs, organs, etc. could be possessed by a demon? It's not biblical, so it's obviously just superstition.
amy
This cracked me up. I quit the JWs at 18 years old and now at 35, I still sometimes have dreams about demons. In those dreams, I always call out to Jehovah.
Andres Torres
I had frequent nightmares as a child, 90% of them were about demons. I once ran out of a building because I was told it was haunted. All children have nightmares, so I suppose if I'd been raised in some other religion they would have been about something else. But still, I realize now how scared and superstitious I was and how unnecessary it was.
Merri-Ella
We had a spiritistic camp in our territory. No one ever wanted to work that territory, but you could always leave it up to the "strong" pioneers to volunteer. The story that me mother told me is that a she was in that camp with other witnesses and going to the doors one-by-one (why they would spread themselves thin in a camp they thought was sworn to Satan I'll never know). But one sister went to a door, by herself, and the lady at the door was very nice and invited her and her friend in. When she told the woman she was alone the woman then went in to describe the sisters mother who had been dead for years.
I also heard about a ouija board that while thrown on a bonfire was screaming.
And when I was about 4 or 5 my mother and my much older sister (probably about 31 at that time) read all up on trolls and witches and such and got rid of all of our Disney movies. We were only allowed to keep 101 Dalamations and Dumbo. I remember being really mad, and insisting that we would have to get rid of Dumbo too due to the magical feather that let Dumbo fly. My mom pointed out that it was just his confidence that allowed him to fly. Though Dumbo and that mouse did get drunk...
Andrew
I hope now that you've left those superstitious beliefs behind.
Merri-Ella
funny thing is, i'm pagan now...so i'd be in that spiritistic camp, GASP!!!
Dion Snoeijen
Hah, I remember my mother asking if I was still able to read the bible. People that are in touch with demonic powers are unable to read the bible she heard. Naive as I was I actually tested it with her. This was probably after she caught me playing a role playing computer game of some sorts, I don't exactly remember. I also used to buy magazines about computer games, often to find them with missing pages or covers, if there was anything on them referring to magic.
Cheri Romero
I am an ex-jw who was born to a fanatical jw mother. I had 3 older siblings. sister 7 years older, sister 8 years older and brother 11 years older.
My oldest sister was getting married and a customer of my mother gave my sister a wedding gift of praying hands. It was put in the closet in my mother's room. Now this is the funny part to the story. I no longer believe anything the witnesses teach but on THIS night, these weird things really did happen.
So my baby neice got real sick when we were babysitting her, my guinea pig died for no apparent reason and a couple other strange things happened. Then when I was in my sisters room looking out the window, I saw a apparition across the street that look like a ghost so I called my friend (who was spending the night) and she saw it too. We told my mother about it. We were put to bed in the same room where that plaque was in the closet and then the curtains started blowing but the window wasnt open and then a bat flew through the closed window and my friends started screaming Jehovah over and over again.
My mom took that plaque down and put it in a garbage bag and she and my sister took it outside and beat it to death with a hammer. And then my guinea pig came back to life and... and... and...
No really that last part is not true of course (just a little humor) but all the rest is. I often think of that time for some reason. I was 10 years old then and I am now 51.
Andres Torres
If you want to properly understand that experience, I highly suggest reading "The Demon Haunted World" by Carl Sagan. You will be shocked by how very prone human beings are to experiencing supernatural phenomena that just aren't there. Sometimes it seems they can even share hallucinations like the one you report here. No demons, ghosts etc are necessary to explain it.
Andrew
Cheri, I believe you had such an experience, but I find it hard to believe your explanation and interpretation of it. I think there are much more logical explanations for 'ghosts' and the like. I hope that doesn't sound mean :-)
Thanks for the comment!
trusting poet
I remember bringing home a shiny silver baton once from my dads girlfriends house when i was about 10. I was excited to show it to my mom and show off the neat trick i had learned to do, but i was was also afraid I wouldnt be able to keep it as it was something cheerleaders used and of course cheerleaders were bad.... but that was not why I wasnt allowed to keep it. I was forced to throw away my beautiful shiny baton (oh, i forgot to mention the tassels..) because my dads girlfriend owned a ouija board and my baton had been in that house. I had to throw it in the garbage can then tie up the bag and carry it outside so that it wasnt in our home. I had felt like such a horrible child for not only bringing such an evil object into our house, but for wanting to keep it even after mom told me it was bad...
Andrew
That's horrible. It's nothing short of psychological abuse to do that to a child.
trusting poet
It has taken me a long time to realize some things for what they were. I am just starting to come to terms with it all. Being here, reading others stories and sharing some of my own is helping. It makes me realize for the first time that I'm really not alone, and not altogether insane... I just had some traumatic emotional experiences in my childhood and have to find a way to deal with them.
Sally
I remember one about a family that had a demonized painting. They put it in the garage and that night they heard it slamming around trying to get out of the garage. They poured gasoline on it and lit a match, but it wouldn't burn. They ended up tearing it to shreds, and it screamed. Then they were able to burn it. Now, doesn't that have the ring of truth?
I've spent entire evenings with other JWs relating their demon stories. Wish I could remember more of them, just for entertainment's sake.
My ex-in-laws were great believers in the demons and had a van parked out back that was stuffed full of "suspicious" items from their house. Supposedly, if you put the item outside of the roofline of your home you were safe. If the "demon activity" stopped while the item was outside they'd get rid of it.
During the 27 years I was married to their son we threw out all of our furniture two times because of supposed demon possession.
I think they feared the demons more than Jehovah!
Flo
Yeah,my mom(and some of the Brothers at the Kingdom Hall) used to tell me that absolutely anything regarding the paranormal,magic,or other completely harmless fictional things could bring demons into the house(she used to burn anything and everything that darest mention such things,including an issue of Nat geo kids).Once I watched smurfs on Boomerang.She caught me and almost broke the remote trying to grab it from my hands. That night I couldn't sleep,I thought I had done something terribly wrong. I stayed up the whole night praying to Jehovah and begging him to dispel the evil demons from us. I felt even worse after watching an episode of,"The Haunting". *sigh* I can't believe I was ever silly enough to believe something like that..
Even now,I have frequent sleep paralysis episodes,nightmares,and insomnia. When I finally told my Mother,she wanted to look through my room to see if I was,"experimenting with the occult".
I really hope one day she comes to her senses and leave the JWs.
dan wicks
sounds like your mom had and has mental problems that have nothing to do with j.w. face it j.w. or any other religon she needs med.help reread your post ....about the way she was anyways im not trying to be hurtful my mother not as intenes as yours was of her rocker way before any .j .w came around
Jason
As was told to me by my grandmother when I was a child.
A woman who had been involved with the occult started studying with JW's and attending meetings. Every night she was attacked by demons who were angry at her for wanting to serve Jehovah. Every time she went to the meeting she could see the demons outside the kingdom hall waiting for her. Once she was baptised the demons left her alone.
To this day I still can't believe I fell for this story.
Andres Torres
Once she was baptized! How convenient.
Buddhagan
I've heard the stories of a doll (Smurf, Cabbage Patch, Teddy Ruxpin) walking out of the kingdom hall.
Sakura
My mom would burn my brother's Pokemon and Yugi-oh cards and claim that it made screaming noises. Some tv shows were (still are since I live at home but I'm too old to watch that now) off-limits such as the ones I mentioned. And having those cards around would bring demons she would say! Any t-shirts with band names on them she's rip up and throw away. Thus my beloved Paramore is evil to have around.. My beloved Twilight series she threw away and I absolutely loved twilight. I had shirts posters and all the books. She made me get rid of them all.(I paid for it myself) It "supposedly" brings demons. Posters are just off-limits altogether. which is understandable. But jeez romanticism can't be explored without someone shouting "Demon or spawn of Satan!" Your story is hilarious though! My mom likes to say "Get behind me Satan" or "The devil made me do it"
Teeny
Hi Sakura and thanks for commenting.
Andrew today said just how stupid the shouting out of Jehovah's name is. He went on to add that if Angels are far greater beings than we are, how comes they shudder when the word "Jehovah" is mentioned? After all, demons are Angels. We're lesser beings, yet I've never shuddered.
You should all try it next time a tiny teddy is trying to strangle you. Shout out "Jehovah" and see if it puts him (or her) off. I'm sure it won't, so you're doomed to die. Death by teddy!
Next up - Playing Hotel California backwards!
Regards,
Teeny
Steve
I didn't know that JWs were also skilled ventriloquists!
Maybe your mom was just helping out since the teddy bear didn't have any vocal chords and she knew the demon wanted to scream.
If any deception is good when it furthers the "truth" by frightening people into the organization (witness 1925, 1975, etc.), I wonder at what point the quantity of the deceptions render it no longer "the truth"?









Sorry, the browser you are using is not currently supported. Disqus actively supports the following browsers:
FirefoxChromeInternet Explorer 8+Safari
This page is forcing your browser to use legacy mode, which is not compatible with Disqus. Please see our troubleshooting guide to get more information about this error.
We were unable to load Disqus. If you are a moderator please see our troubleshooting guide.
johnny
Majority of jws are apostates. When you leave your religion to join another you are a apostate.
Im an apostate why?
Because i refuse to support a religion that silences victims of abuse because i refuse to support a religion that preaches love and forgiveness but does not practise it because i refuse to support a religion that talks about humility but refuses to admit or apologise about their mistakes because i refuse to support a religion that says onething and does another because i refuse to support a religion that has a history of failed predictions because i refuse to support a religion that would rather let a kid die as long as blood is not given because i refuse to support a religion that would let family members disown even kids so young.
mark palo
I think my memory is serving me right when I state that once you are labeled "apostate" you can never get back in the congregation. In other words you are forever damned! You supposedly knew the truth and then because your thinking was demonized you turned your head away from the , oh how I hate calling it this, the truth. The Watchtower has published reams of articles giving many new definitions to the word apostate but the dictionary is very precise in its definition. "One who leaves a party, group, or religion. Websters says nothing about insanity etc.
craig
Steve, you are so right.
You stated:
"It is a black-and-white world: with all the truth within the org and blackness, falsehood, and death outside the org: the epitome of cult indoctrination. "
I couldn't have said it better.
Anne Marie
Try Googling, "Watchtower Core Truths," and find an article that lists about 26 "truths" that 99% of JWs believe without really thinking about it; not ONE of these "Watchtower Truths" can be shown to be "true" from their own Bible translation by a follower of the Watchtower; not ONE of these "truths" is taught in Scripture...
Danny Haszard
Jehovah's Witnesses have their own 'Elephants in the room'.
ABC on Jehovah's Witnesses-They say Jesus had his 'return' aka second coming October 1914.
(No matter how the JW try to spin 1914 that is was 'invisible' etc it's still a lie that comes from William Miller and occult pyramidology)
This is a false apostate teaching,so it's the Jehovah's Witnesses Watchtower organization who are the apostate Christians.-Danny Haszard FMI dannyhaszard(dot)com
Bonnie
Steve, you hit it right on as well. They cannot admit the WT is wrong; if they did, their lives would be a sham.
I cannot tell you how many witnesses I know who live in a state of suspended disbelief, but year after year go through the motions of living a faith they don't truly believe in, either to avoid the realization that they've wasted a lot of years or to keep family ties, or their position in the congregation, etc. Afterall, no good JW has any friends outside a Kingdom Hall. If they left, they would be completely and utterly alone, so they think and are told.
I will never forget, after readying "Crisis of Conscience" how angry I was. I was angry because I had been lied to and lived my life a certain way for 40 years because of those lies, including staying with an abusive ministerial servant husband for 22 years (lest we forget, the WT says women should love their abusive husbands MORE and maybe they will eventually come around - WT4/15/12). Angry, because I was forced to miss my only son's wedding, because after gaining the courage to leave his father, I was disfellowshipped, Angry, because of all the hours I devoted to the door to door field ministry. What a waste of my youth.
Unfortunately, most witnesses will never see the material evidence that exposes their faith as a lie. They have been taught to fear anything written by former witnesses as apostate. Let's face it. Their whole cult, like all other cults, is based on fear and isolationism.
I do find it interesting that active witnesses visit this site at all. It tells me they are at least curious and open minded enough to check it out. I wonder if their severe criticism of what they find is just to salve their own guilty consciences for coming to this site and reading what is here.
It's just sad how many truly good people are being duped by a few old men in New York playing God.
Sparlock
Bonnie, your comment moved me to write this.
Since being cast into the Blue Plastic Abyss, I too have been shunned. I didn't make it to my own film premiere and my only friend, Caleb, won't even talk to me.
Why did this happen? Because some old farts in New York said magic was out of bounds. Why don't they thrust Jehovah down here with me, after all, he used magic all the way through the bible, but I suppose that fits their own agenda.
Anyway, I must go before those pesky cats return.
All the best and keep your chins held high. I personally can't raise mine because I wasn't made that way.
Love,
John Sparlock tWW
Steve
Spot on, Andrew!
I've had the same experience on my website (as you can tell from my "mailbag" page.) JW-think consists of a reflexive defense of the WT: it cannot be wrong or their lives are a sham. Therefore anyone who criticizes what the WT says has to be a liar. It is a black-and-white world: with all the truth within the org and blackness, falsehood, and death outside the org: the epitome of cult indoctrination.
Although there's little hope of reaching them in that mindset, they may someday have a "crisis of conscience" and your words may then come to mind and fit into place for them. This is what happened to me when they unjustifiably disfellowshiped my pioneering sister. Suddenly all of the criticisms I had heard made sense. The emotional crisis led to intellectual acceptance of the fact that the society was the one with a long history of lying.
In the meantime your words do help others who haven't yet been fully brainwashed. So keep up the great work you and Teeny do!
Andrew
Hi Steve,
Thanks for your kind words! And rest assured, there's many more articles coming up on JWB - we aren't going anywhere!










Sorry, the browser you are using is not currently supported. Disqus actively supports the following browsers:
FirefoxChromeInternet Explorer 8+Safari
This page is forcing your browser to use legacy mode, which is not compatible with Disqus. Please see our troubleshooting guide to get more information about this error.
We were unable to load Disqus. If you are a moderator please see our troubleshooting guide.
liz
@Bonnie...It brought back memories for me also. If it was a story on the news, or if one of us kids would say we felt bad for a child dying, my mother would say, " Little snakes grow into big snakes, they were already dead in God's eyes anyways. " I knew from the time I was a small child, I wanted out of this heartless religion and heartless people. I lived my life for the day I gathered up everything inside of me and left.
Lady Libertine
I found out about what happened from News coverage while sitting in a Hospital's waiting room (my mother had an appointment). I remember hoping, that maybe, possibly, no one was dead because I hadn't seen a number of the wounded yet. I was hearing stories, seeing interviews, but wasn't hearing that anyone was dead. So imagine my gasp in horror and disbelief when I saw "71 wounded" cross the screen several minutes later.
When I got home, I jumped online. I starting hearing more details, seeing victim's faces. Learned the youngest victim was a six-year-old little girl. I started to cry.
After I calmed down, I started sharing details of what the police had learned about the shooter with my mother.
Do you know what she said?
"I don't want to hear anything else about it. That's why I'm glad I don't go to the show anymore. There's nothing good. The first thing I wondered, was if any friends were there".
I bit my tongue and walked away.
Same thing an elder said when he learned about Candice Conti.
"It's to be expected".
This is what happens when you brainwash and condition seven million people into believing that tragedy is inevitable before it springs into worldwide anarchy, and gives them persecutory complex to boot.
Compassion? Love? Sympathy?
Those things can become scarily non-existent in a community that wants the world to end soon so badly that they will latch on to anything as a "sign of the times".
Becky
Ummm, wow! The only people I know who went to the midnight showing of batman that night were my niece and nephew, and they are JWs. I believe my nephew is pioneering, but had no qualms about seeing batman. Fortunately, they moved away from Aurora a few years ago, and were in a theater in a nearby town, so they were not at risk. If they still had been in Aurora though, and had been at that theater, ugh, I don't even want to think about it.
What a moron to make such statements! Instead of acting like the victims were in the wrong, why not give a talk in which JWs are encouraged to emulate the examples of those who put themselves in harm's way to protect others that night. There were true heroes there that night, and nobody has the right to act superior to such fine human beings.
Bruce Stevens
Reading all these comments about JW action busted me up so many times...It gave me more laughs than the old Woody Allen movie "Love & Death". I got out of the "Lie" (truth?) back in 1968, when I turned 18. The last straws were being told in a "special" mandatory meeting with the elders, that what everything boiled down to was that I was setting a bad example for some other younger Witlesses because I was worldly (had long hair, wore sandals)...and so if I continued in my appearance, I would be destroyed at Armageddon (which at the time was very close, probably 1975). That did it. I asked them to see my "publishers record card". I took it. Put it in my pocket & walked away from that cult. I "disassociated" myself before they could "disembowel" (disfellowshit) me. But I had already been brainwashed from birth, and the aftereffects took a heavy toll on me for most of the rest of my life. Please warn anybody that gets sucked in to this damaging cult, not to go there.
Nico
Reading that made me throw up a little in my mouth.
It reminds me when I brought a friend from HS to a small Monday night meeting, we were in our early 20s, & the Elder late 40's started making jokes about how great it would be to give out the latest WT @ funerals if the cemeteries hadn't posted those pesky "No Soliciting" signs . Really ambushing people at funerals while they weak with grief is what he & the Mist Assist were talking, not jokingly, about. I was surprised & embarrassed. She was rightly disgusted. I had to get my WT CD out to prove to the other Elders this was unacceptable on their own terms & had been covered years before. They told me the would not be talking with him, nor would he be recovering the topic but I could write a talk on it myself & give it up front. I wrote one but never gave it. I felt the Elders there were misleading people but I've some to realize it's the WT faith itself that's misleading. I heard that within months of my 2nd hiatus from meetings "Bethel" came out & that Hall closed. Everyone was redistricted. Really was vindicating because I had been praying for that the whole time!
Andres Torres
At the funeral of my great-grandmother a witness, a distant part of the family I'd never met, did just this. He was distributing brochures about death and the resurrection during the eulogy! Of course the priest/pastor or whatever he was took him to task for it.
Brandon
I'm right there with you Teeny! I left just a few years ago (i'm 29 now)!
Back in 2006, I had sex with someone... she told. I got in trouble -- things were gong fine and I was brainwashed to believe I should work harder.
Instead, after going out in "field service" for 20+ hours per month, building myself up... after 10 months, I still was an outcast. Was given no privileges back. One of the "elders" even went home and told his wife and son what I did and who I did it to -- apparently the woman was a family friend so they were upset about it.
News spread that I slept with this woman, and before you know it, people were whispering and made my life hell!
I went through SERIOUS depression, drinking heavily, contemplating suicide and needing to go to therapy... Then one day, I moved across country and asked myself "Why would a loving God allow this? I thought I was raised to believe that Gods spirit governs this organization... so why is he allowing this?"
Then it hit me.... BECAUSE IT'S NOT GOVERNED BY GOD'S SPIRIT!!!!
I left permanently, and I am so friggin happy!!!!! i smile daily. I don't need prozac. I don't drink... I'm truly happy!
My parents keep calling me to come back... I tell them Im grown and make my own decisions... then ask them "don't you care that your son is happy?"
Their response "Not without the organization..."
Yes, it's a CULT.
Mark Palo
Harold, thanks for the concern but I have been seeing a mental health professional for some 20 years. Realize that not only did I get the Royal Mind Screwing from the JWs but I was sexually molested at Bethel by a long dead gov bod member. But you are right, I do vent by writing, demonstrating and producing a local cable access show called "Eyes on the Watchtower." You can catch some of the show on youtube under the title. The only advice I give about the mental health issue is that if a person and their shrink can find a good center line with the necessary medications then don't mess with it. As long as your health, both mental and physical is what they call in homeostasis one will be fine.
Mark Palo
In regards to the comment of how JW's flock to the movies I have a new twist on this. One of my totally brainwashed sons loves his movies. To get around the R rating he buys the movie and then sends it to a video editing company and has any language or sex scenes cut. That way he can keep his position in the congregation and not anger his bOrgette slave mother. This woman used to object to the skits on Laugh In. But then you have to realize she is holier than thee and good and proper (Un)-christian woman. Only problem is her taking the Theocratic Lying too far.
Nico
Yes Harold many of us need some counseling after leaving! Luckily for me I visited lots of other churches & I highly advise it Mark. Many provide counseling & allow you to have your own opinions for free. :)
Harold
Mark: Sounds like you got some issues. It's good to publicly 'vent'; but maybe you should pursue professional counselling as it appears your another indirect victim of the J.W. cult.
johnny
Jewel you said an apostate is always an apostate. Majority of jws are apostates. When you leave your religion to join another you are an apostate.
Jws preach about love and forgiveness, are they really practising what they preach when they are resposible for breaking up thousands of families? When thousands of children live in fear of being abused again and again is that love?
The problem with jws is that they are very quick to blame other people for their problems but when something bad happens to them they say its a sign of testing.
El~Nunya
Jewel, you said "But rest assured that none who drag God’s name in the mud will go unpunished."
And that includes the WTS, and by extension, every mislead JW on the planet. The reproach brought upon God's Name by the WTS/JW's is a travesty! And they've been doing that for 120 years. If the individuals enslaved by that organization don't wake up to the pseudo-religious manipulation, they're destined to follow their blind masters into the same black pit.
Love is the defining characteristic of God's people. The lack of love and compassion for the victims in Colorado speaks volumes to the spirituality of the JW's. All you have to do is open your mouth and regurgitate what you're fed, and the evidence becomes crystal clear.

So, who's fault is it that you're in a false-religious cult serving a man-made god (WTS)?
johnny
Jws dont go to movies late at night because they are too tired too tired from pissing people off, spying on each other and breaking families apart.
Melanie
Anyone remember going back about 15 years or so, when a non JW went and shot up a Kingdom Hall because his wife was a JW? I believe it was in Texas? The WT was singing a different tune about who was responsible and to blame. But if you go by their reasoning then why didn't they blame all those JW's for going to the Kingdom Hall? Why didn't they take that as a sign that they were doing the wrong thing as to God's instruction. Because they use what they will to instill fear and control. Those people were a victim of circumstance. Any sane person knows that "sh*t happens" and it's the luck of the draw. Jah didn't protect those people at the KH, at the twin towers nor at the movie theatre. I don't believe in a god personally, but if there is a god, it's very clear that he doesn't stop disasters or stop people from being killed...
I remember being a JW and we would scoff at funerals where they said "God took my baby" because we were told that God doesn't "take" people, but "time and circumstance befalls them all ." Now they are saying they would have been protected by being JW's... yeah right!! Never worked before and they preached that for a long time. Hypocrates!!!
Harold
It's quite obvious they (J.W.s) are emotionally crippled in the minds, viewpoins: t, social values and perspectives. Play with dirt and you'll get dirty. Best to avoid them altogether.
Jimmy Frazier
This is just great article and it is not the first instance where elders have said something like this. I can remember when I was still associated with the witnesses during the Hurricane Katrina ordeal when they were saying that it was all that immorality that caused "Jehovah" to bring a Hurricane on the people.
It takes a certain kind of mentally and emotionally crippled mind to continue on as a Jehovah's Witness. That doesn't mean the average JW is a bad person, just severely ill.
Jewel
An apostate is always be an apostate. U are not expected to speak favourably of Jehovah's witnesses when u are an apostate. I'm not surprised. But rest assured that none who drag God's name in the mud will go unpunished. U are free to continue with your slanderous defamation.
Teeny
And an uneducated Jehovah's Witness will always be an uneducated Jehovah's Witness.
http://www.jehovahswitnessblog...
Regards,
Teeny
PS. Tickets to the Birds Eating My Eyes Out show are now on sale. Be quick though as there's limited seating.
Steve
Thanks for granting us apostates permission to continue, Jewel. But as apostates we don't need your permission.
I re-read Teeny's post, and nowhere in there does he mention God's name except when referring to the name of your group. So please tell us how God's name was dragged in the mud by Teeny's post.
"Slanderous defamation" is rather a redundant phrase since slander is one form of defamation. Slander is spoken. What Teeny posted was written and so could not be slander. Defamation is the communication of false information stated as a fact which brings harm to an individual or an entity. Please tell us what information was given that was false. If nothing Teeny stated was false, then you owe Teeny an apology for your false accusation.
If anyone could be accused of defaming God's name it would have to be a group calling itself by God's name who make outrageously insensitive statements like "they deserved to be shot for going to a violent movie".
Bonnie
That was beautiful, Steve.
Oh and Jewel and shuly, what does your organization tell you about talking to apostates or visiting apostate sites? Why should we listen to a Witness who can't even obey their organization's instructions?
Now here's a fun little mental activity for you both: it's called spot the conflation.
Criticism of the Watchtower (a man made organization) is not the same as defaming god.
Please repeat that to yourselves until it manages to sink in. Kthxbai!
Andrew
Thanks for giving us your permission. Without it, I might have had to shut down the entire blog!
shuly
Please Jehovah's Org. Is nt a cult becaus whn u re readng de Bible try 2 wt u read u cann't fall into any vitim ad obey ur GodJehovah.
Andrew
Shuly, learn how to type/spell so people can actually understand you. As far as I can tell, you don't think JWs are cult because you can't fall into any victim and obey your god?!